Cultural Appropriation

  • kevmoran

    Posts: 1543

    Jun 08, 2013 4:02 PM GMT
    I used to hang out in the social/political blogosphere (which is predominantly angsty 16 year olds). And one of the topics always debated was cultural appropriation, what it means, and whether it's just a bunch of panties in knots. Opinions?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_appropriation

    And here's one of the most hotly debated videos:

  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jun 08, 2013 4:31 PM GMT
    lifesux saidI used to hang out in the social/political blogosphere (which is predominantly angsty 16 year olds). And one of the topics always debated was cultural appropriation, what it means, and whether it's just a bunch of panties in knots. Opinions?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_appropriation

    And here's one of the most hotly debated videos:



    Not sure what it is you are asking but i liked the video. Do you mean different ethnicities who take on other peoples cultures ? I think anyone who has a problem is probably a nit-picky person, some people have a problem with everything ..
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jun 08, 2013 6:44 PM GMT
    It's all about the the relative socio-economic positions in the cultures involved and their media footprint.
    What she's doing in this video is basically masquerading as a member of that culture. She's stealing the look/style for a vehicle for her own promotion, as if it had no other purpose. She's not doing it as an homage to the culture, she doesn't understand or care about the original cultural context of any of it. Her song has nothing to do with India, and the dancers are doing hip-hop style dancing rather than traditional Indian dancing, so she clearly doesn't care about the culture itself. She's reduced their culture to props in her video.
    That's cultural appropriation.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jun 08, 2013 7:09 PM GMT
    Cultural appropriation..

    H0GungE.jpg
  • kevmoran

    Posts: 1543

    Jun 08, 2013 7:20 PM GMT
    xrichx saidCultural appropriation..

    H0GungE.jpg

    If that's cultural appropriation, then so is this.
    beyonce.jpg
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jun 08, 2013 7:28 PM GMT
    lifesux said
    xrichx saidCultural appropriation..

    H0GungE.jpg

    If that's cultural appropriation, then so is this.
    beyonce.jpg



    like cultural assimilation ? why ignore my above post ?? icon_neutral.gif
  • kevmoran

    Posts: 1543

    Jun 08, 2013 7:31 PM GMT
    CopperDevil saidlike cultural assimilation ? why ignore my above post ?? icon_neutral.gif

    Well in this sense I meant that a white guy with braids isn't stealing a culture in the same way that Beyonce wearing a European girl's hair on her head isn't appropriation. And I didn't ignore, I just didn't have a clever comment!
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jun 08, 2013 7:49 PM GMT
    ok then let me rephrase is the debate about this being a good thing or a bad thing ? in reference to Beyonce' and the white guy. I think Beyonce's lace from weaves come from a different mental mindset than the white guy with the braids. People of african decent in america have been taught that anything closer to European features is more attractive. whereas the white guy might just happen to like wearing the braids and stuff, but i guess the real question is why ? ( i dont have a problem with him or anything )
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jun 08, 2013 7:51 PM GMT
    Masculism saidIt's all about the the relative socio-economic positions in the cultures involved and their media footprint.
    What she's doing in this video is basically masquerading as a member of that culture. She's stealing the look/style for a vehicle for her own promotion, as if it had no other purpose. She's not doing it as an homage to the culture, she doesn't understand or care about the original cultural context of any of it. Her song has nothing to do with India, and the dancers are doing hip-hop style dancing rather than traditional Indian dancing, so she clearly doesn't care about the culture itself. She's reduced their culture to props in her video.
    That's cultural appropriation.


    Sure, she's not doing a true homage to traditional Indian cultural practices, but India is not only traditional. Indian culture adopts Western cultural practices and thoughts too. Check out the guys in this Indian pop video. Are they disrespecting the west by appropriating our "dress style" when it has nothing to do with the music? Their dancing is not classical Indian dance; are they offending both their own culture and the Western styles they appropriate. I think not.


    I adore cross-cultural artforms. I like MIA's approach to cross-cultural references in her artform. In this song/video she's a British-born Sri-Lankan urban act referencing India's Bollywood take on American disco. Class act.


    As a third culture kid (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_culture_kid), I adore any aspect of cross-cultural appreciation/reference.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jun 08, 2013 7:53 PM GMT
    Masculism saidIt's all about the the relative socio-economic positions in the cultures involved and their media footprint.
    What she's doing in this video is basically masquerading as a member of that culture. She's stealing the look/style for a vehicle for her own promotion, as if it had no other purpose. She's not doing it as an homage to the culture, she doesn't understand or care about the original cultural context of any of it. Her song has nothing to do with India, and the dancers are doing hip-hop style dancing rather than traditional Indian dancing, so she clearly doesn't care about the culture itself. She's reduced their culture to props in her video.
    That's cultural appropriation.
    oh i see what you mean now, you mean exploiting someones culture for entertainment or personal gain
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jun 08, 2013 7:58 PM GMT
    Well, that was my point too. There's a fine line between cultural assimilation and cultural exploitation.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jun 08, 2013 7:59 PM GMT
    gayinterest saidSure, she's not doing a true homage to traditional Indian cultural practices, but India is not only traditional. Indian culture adopts Western cultural practices and thoughts too. Check out the guys in this Indian pop video. Are they disrespecting the west by appropriating our "dress style" when it has nothing to do with the music? Their dancing is not classical Indian dance; are they offending both their own culture and the Western styles they appropriate. I think not.
    you missed this part:
    Masculism saidIt's all about the the relative socio-economic positions in the cultures involved and their media footprint.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jun 08, 2013 8:07 PM GMT
    Are you suggesting that it's unfair for an American act to imitate an Indian tradition because America's richer than India? How does the media footprint come into play? You need to clarify your point.

    edit: I've just read up on her and discovered she's actually Australian. Point is still valid.

    If you're gonna start your point by saying, "It's all about..." then you need to show how.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jun 08, 2013 8:14 PM GMT
    gayinterest saidAre you suggesting that it's unfair for an American act to imitate an Indian tradition because America's richer than India? How does the media footprint come into play? You need to clarify your point.
    If you're gonna start your point by saying, "It's all about..." then you need to show how.
    Cultural appropriation is essentially something that white people do to other cultures.
    Why do you think they made the video? To record it on VHS and send it to the local Sally Ann to be lost in forever?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jun 08, 2013 8:14 PM GMT
    CopperDevil said
    Masculism saidIt's all about the the relative socio-economic positions in the cultures involved and their media footprint.
    What she's doing in this video is basically masquerading as a member of that culture. She's stealing the look/style for a vehicle for her own promotion, as if it had no other purpose. She's not doing it as an homage to the culture, she doesn't understand or care about the original cultural context of any of it. Her song has nothing to do with India, and the dancers are doing hip-hop style dancing rather than traditional Indian dancing, so she clearly doesn't care about the culture itself. She's reduced their culture to props in her video.
    That's cultural appropriation.
    oh i see what you mean now, you mean exploiting someones culture for entertainment or personal gain
    yes, exactly.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jun 08, 2013 8:17 PM GMT

    Panties in knots. icon_lol.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jun 08, 2013 8:23 PM GMT
    Masculism said
    gayinterest saidAre you suggesting that it's unfair for an American act to imitate an Indian tradition because America's richer than India? How does the media footprint come into play? You need to clarify your point.
    If you're gonna start your point by saying, "It's all about..." then you need to show how.
    Cultural appropriation is essentially something that white people do to other cultures.
    Why do you think they made the video? To record it on VHS and send it to the local Sally Ann to be lost in forever?


    But hang on, you just completely ignored my counter argument that non-Western cultures appropriate our customs and cultures too. Take a look at this picture of Indian youth today.
    Do they look uninfluenced by Western culture much??
    rang-de-basant2-781224_1_1.jpg

    India - and many Asian cultures - have an exploding economy and some of its inhabitants are far wealthier than many Americans. Have you ever travelled out of North America? How can you propose that the non-Western world has not been influenced by the West? It's preposterous!
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jun 08, 2013 9:06 PM GMT
    gayinterest said
    Masculism said
    gayinterest saidAre you suggesting that it's unfair for an American act to imitate an Indian tradition because America's richer than India? How does the media footprint come into play? You need to clarify your point.
    If you're gonna start your point by saying, "It's all about..." then you need to show how.
    Cultural appropriation is essentially something that white people do to other cultures.
    Why do you think they made the video? To record it on VHS and send it to the local Sally Ann to be lost in forever?
    But hang on, you just completely ignored my counter argument that non-Western cultures appropriate our customs and cultures too. Take a look at this picture of Indian youth today.
    Do they look uninfluenced by Western culture much??
    rang-de-basant2-781224_1_1.jpg
    India - and many Asian cultures - have an exploding economy and some of its inhabitants are far wealthier than many Americans. Have you ever travelled out of North America? How can you propose that the non-Western world has not been influenced by the West? It's preposterous!
    I'm not saying that you fucking retard. It's a good thing I know British people other than you and your dim-witted buddy benscub otherwise I'd think you're all mentally deficient.

    India is a classic case of a country exploited by colonialism, in this case by the British. The typical presentation of India in that time period was Indian people and Indian culture being a backdrop for what the important white people in front were doing. Apparently it still happens, according to the video posted.
    India has no colonial history with America in terms of exploiting Americans, so young Indian people wearing North American style clothing cannot be judged in the same way. Those people in the photo are wearing those clothes because they want to fit in, they want the North American lifestyle, so they're dressing like it. Iggy Azalea isn't wearing the clothing because she wants to live a traditional Indian lifestyle. She's simply using it as a means to promote her video, and it is not done in a respectful manner that shows appreciation for the culture.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jun 08, 2013 9:21 PM GMT
    Resorting to name-calling again, are we Anduru? Certainly adds gravitas to your argument.

    Do you actually know any people who grew up outside of the west? I have dozens of friends who have never lived in the west, honour their own cultural traditions of their countries, follow their own non-Christian religions, yet still enjoy many activities shared in the west, such as going to clubs, dancing to electronically produced pop music, following western fashions.

    It's not because they want to BE American; it's just that our culture is having an influence upon theirs - and not because of colonialism or the west forcing our ideas upon them.

    My friends listen to pop and hip hop, but they're still Pakistani born and raised muslims.
    My friends pose for pictures with friends like western people do, but they still live as a buddist monk for year as their religion asks of them.
    My friends wear jeans, t-shirts, trainers when they hang out with friends at Starbucks, but they still wear saris at weddings.

    Here's my Kenyan friend Hasna who I was at school with in Pakistan. She's a practicing Kenyan muslim who lives in Nairobi. She does not drink alcohol and observes Ramadan.
    29010_2975880132763_1399938982_n.jpg

    Here's my Burmese friend Sithu, who I was at school with in Burma. He's a practicing Buddhist who removed himself from society to live as a monk in a monastery for a year with no personal possessions.
    478971_643033778370_301449040_o.jpg

    Here's my Pakistani friend Kalsoon who I was at school with in Islamabad. Here she is marrying her American husband in a mixture of western and pakistani wedding dress. She had both a muslim and christian wedding.
    270425_10100811369670693_854641755_n.jpg

    They are all very proud of their nationalities and do not desire to be American. It's so arrogant of you to think that pop music and culture, clubbing, hanging out in coffee shops, etc, are exclusively Western ideas. Non-Western traditions and cultures develop and change with time too, you know? Especially thanks to things like facebook and increasing travel (among non-Americans) lol

    You have no clue about people outside of North America, and are in no position to speak of how they view their national identity!
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jun 08, 2013 11:21 PM GMT
    ^ You obviously have something against me because you are pulling points out of thin air. I didn't say anything about clubbing, or Starbucks, or posing for pictures (wtf??????).

    My main point is white people appropriating cultures that are not their own. They do not respect the culture. They do not care about the culture. They do not want to understand the culture.
    That has nothing to do with other cultures enjoying the same cultural activities etc. as Americans. Those people obviously care about the cultural activities in their daily lives, and don't just use clubbing or Starbucks as a background in a music video to profit from.
    You also can't deny the underlying racist tendencies of all cultures. In India they have skin lightening cream. Wonder why?

    If you got past your apparently innate need to be better than everyone you would understand what I'm talking about, but because I implied that your taste in music is less than superior suddenly everything I say is wrong. You're the kind of elitist that gives elitists a bad rep.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jun 09, 2013 12:06 AM GMT
    Masculism said Those people in the photo are wearing those clothes because they want to fit in, they want the North American lifestyle, so they're dressing like it. Iggy Azalea isn't wearing the clothing because she wants to live a traditional Indian lifestyle. She's simply using it as a means to promote her video, and it is not done in a respectful manner that shows appreciation for the culture.


    I make my comments, because of what you said above, with regards to "those people" wanting be be like Americans and other western cultures. Whereas it simply isn't true. What IS true is that non-Western cultures are growing and changing fast, and because of globalisation are being exposed to new ideas, new trends, and new means of creation/industry. They are competing financially on an international market and places like China and India are fast developing economies on par with America and Europe.

    Ok, so you want to propose that the Australian singer (and her video production team) aim to exploit India and its culture for profitable gain...?

    Consider this bollywood film about rich Indian kids trying out life in New York. The rich Indian kids are the focus of the film, imitating American culture rituals like playing football, using a stereotypical American backdrop, stereotypically abusive cops, wearing stereotypically American clothes, etc.



    It's an Indian-produced Bollywood film, made intended for profit and personal promotion for Indian businessmen and artists. So, by your reasoning and logic, these Indian actors and film makers are exploiting America and have no understanding or respect for its culture. This film is no different to the music video we are discussing.

    It's very commendable of you to care about the dignity of non-Western cultures, but you're being a little ignorant and patronising in your approach. If you had a bit more of an understanding, and had experienced the world outside of your continent, you might have a more rounded, reasonable view of other cultures.

    I'm not elitist. I just say things as I see them. And I happen to see a very misguided, ill-informed, childish, abusive bully making incorrect assumptions about people who are not just like him. This has nothing to do with you attacking my musical taste, and everything to do with you being a very insecure and ignorant brat.

    .... to put it simply, Devrin.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jun 09, 2013 12:20 AM GMT
    I've never looked into it before and find this very interesting. Just the same, I'm a cause and effect man who doesn't like to do black and white thinking.

    If I don't like Native Americans (which I do) but I want to wear a head-dress (which I don't) is there a negative repercussion I'm overlooking?

    indian-headdress1_thumb.jpg
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jun 09, 2013 12:26 AM GMT
    ^ yes that movie is cultural appropriation. What is the problem.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jun 09, 2013 12:30 AM GMT
    Masculism said^ yes that movie is cultural appropriation. What is the problem.


    haha - wonderful. Apparently, the problem is that these horrible Indian people are exploiting those poor misunderstood Americans and their culture and traditions for profitable gain! lol
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jun 09, 2013 12:31 AM GMT
    i'm starting to think that i should assume that everyone takes everythin g i say extremely literally


    when i say "white people culturally appropriate other cultures" i reaally shouldn't have to put "generally," at the beginning for people to understand that i don't mean 100% absolutely there is no possible way ever for it to ever be different