Can or will the Dems handle their winnings without abusing any new found "power" ???

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    Nov 01, 2008 4:05 AM GMT
    Note !!!! While Bush/cheney may be judged by many as the worst for abusing power, they didn't invent political abuse of power by any stretch !!!! there's a broad history of that on both sides of the Isle. What ever gains the Dems make I want to see them take a respectable hold of the power they may gain and not end up needing "the boot" like bush/cheney seem to be getting. There is so much to do, to make our country and our world a better place, and if they'll just not take missadvantage of it, they could make us a proud nation again. The Dems could also seal away the end of the Neocons for good too, if they'll deal straight !!! Will they handle it properly for the good of our country or will they fall for the temptation to even scores, and to award their chronies. WHAT DO YOU THINK ???? THIS ISSUE COULD MAKE OR BREAK THE SUCCESS OF UNDOING THE BUSH DAMAGE !!!!
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    Nov 01, 2008 8:57 AM GMT
    Its politics! How in the Sam Hill do you think power will not be abused?
  • GQjock

    Posts: 11649

    Nov 01, 2008 9:10 AM GMT
    As with everything ... the Democrats are going to be watched like hawks

    ... if Obama or the House or Senate do ANYTHING that can be slightly construed as controversial or expensive or self-serving

    ... it's going to be THE END OF THE WORLD ! on all the Cable news shows

  • coolarmydude

    Posts: 9190

    Nov 01, 2008 3:46 PM GMT
    Historical trends suggest that any Democrats demise will be their own undoing. It's like that on both sides. "Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely."

    A third party of equal proportion can solve/prevent this.
  • styrgan

    Posts: 2017

    Nov 01, 2008 3:54 PM GMT
    coolHUSSEINdude saidHistorical trends suggest that any Democrats demise will be their own undoing. It's like that on both sides. "Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely."

    A third party of equal proportion can solve/prevent this.


    Yeah but how long is it going to take?

    I hate to make an outrageously partisan and irrational comment, but the last time the Democrats held total power, they did so for nearly thirty years before the overreach and corruption of the 60's. Contrasted with about eight years for the Republicans.
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    Nov 01, 2008 4:04 PM GMT
    If the Democrats win, I hope that the Democrats in power temper their legislative wishes with a dose of pragmatism and I hope that liberal Democrats, myself included, who want a lot of things changed, can be patient enough and pragmatic enough to remember that not everything can be achieved immediately or exactly as we want it. There are so many Republican messes to clean up that doing so will take some time.
  • coolarmydude

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    Nov 01, 2008 4:35 PM GMT
    styrgan said, "Yeah but how long is it going to take?

    I hate to make an outrageously partisan and irrational comment, but the last time the Democrats held total power, they did so for nearly thirty years before the overreach and corruption of the 60's. Contrasted with about eight years for the Republicans."


    Actually, it was in Clinton's first two years.
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    Nov 01, 2008 4:42 PM GMT
    I'd have to know what your definition is in regard to "abuse of power" before I could answer it. Is their goal going to be similar to strong arming those across the isle? I'd rather just say at this point the script is unwritten on all of that and sit back and see what happens.

    I do know this.. One party cannot and should not continuously hold the same position. At some point the other party needs to take that position and show us what they've got.
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    Nov 01, 2008 4:50 PM GMT
    I don't believe that the Democrats would be retaliatory just for the hell of it, but it's sure going to seem like that to a lot of staunch Republicans... especially after all this "socialism" bullshit has been slung around so injudiciously.


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    Nov 01, 2008 4:52 PM GMT
    I believe that based upon the superb leadership and organization of the Obama campaign, an Obama White House/Administration will "manage" a House & Senate in a similar fashion (especially with a Democratic majority) versus permit them to run-a-muk and/or out of control.
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    Nov 01, 2008 4:53 PM GMT
    Whether the Dems exercise restraint or not, the Repubs will accuse them of abuse of power anyway. The campaign to discredit the Democrats for the next Congressional race in 2010 will begin the day after this election.
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    Nov 01, 2008 5:11 PM GMT
    [quote][cite]Jsttennis77 said[/cite]I'd have to know what your definition is in regard to "abuse of power" before I could answer it. Is their goal going to be similar to strong arming those across the isle? I'd rather just say at this point the script is unwritten on all of that and sit back and see what happens.

    I do know this.. One party cannot and should not continuously hold the same position. At some point the other party needs to take that position and show us what they've got.[/quote >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>by abuse of power, I'm referring to such things as giving contracts, positions, special favors to chronies, where such chronies have no legitimate rights by their persoanl merrits to such benefits. Also actions such as lieing to cover agendas like the neocons war, torture, rendering prisoners, illegal surveilance, neocon reaches for executive branch power, trying to take away rights like what was done to the Guantonamo prisoners (removing Habeaus Corpus rights) If we expect to remain a Democracy, we must guard against going along with our government doing any such things, or they can and will eventually come back to us. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There's any number of ways for any group of politicians to abuse power, its these type abuses I'm concerned about that errode our governments credibility, and our rights as citizens in a Democracy. I too think we need a strong 3rd party to keep all this in check !!! I have high hopes that Obama can stay in the realm of the reasonable, but there's plenty of room for the whole gang to go wrong.
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    Nov 01, 2008 5:17 PM GMT
    Of course not. Politicians are inherently incapable of self-restraint. Expect an uncontrolled orgy of bad laws and regulations and self-perpetuating bureaucracies growing like cancer. We've already seen this in the northwest, where they've taken control.

    The other question is will the Republicans use their down-time to reinvent themselves, shed the lunatic fringe and be ready to stand up as the voice of reason and moderation during the next backlash?

    Probably not... it seems like we're doomed to ricochet from extreme to extreme.
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    Nov 01, 2008 5:52 PM GMT
    Red_Hussein_Vespa saidWhether the Dems exercise restraint or not, the Repubs will accuse them of abuse of power anyway. The campaign to discredit the Democrats for the next Congressional race in 2010 will begin the day after this election.


    It has already begun RedVespa. That's politics.
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    Nov 01, 2008 5:55 PM GMT
    mindgarden saidThe other question is will the Republicans use their down-time to reinvent themselves, shed the lunatic fringe and be ready to stand up as the voice of reason and moderation during the next backlash?

    Probably not... it seems like we're doomed to ricochet from extreme to extreme.


    I also doubt the Republicans will be able to move back to the political center anytime soon, though their senior leaders may make a PR effort to try to convince the voters of their moderation. The dominant power in the Republican Party is now the Christian fundamentalists, a group for whom compromise is not an option.

    The Repubs had been courting the fundies for years, and Carl Rove made the marriage official. Now let the Repubs try to get a divorce. The Christian right wing has what it wants: a national party to do its bidding, and achieve its stated goal of a Christian theocracy in the US, creating a country where the law reflects their unique interpretation of the Bible.

    The Republicans cannot "shed" the lunatic fringe because the fringe now calls the shots. Look at McCain's disastrous choice of Sara Palin, made precisely to appease that very fringe. McCain might have had half a chance, but he was forced by the uncompromising fundies to make an unwise decision.
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    Nov 01, 2008 6:05 PM GMT
    Red_Hussein_Vespa saidThe Republicans cannot "shed" the lunatic fringe because the fringe now calls the shots. Look at McCain's disastrous choice of Sara Palin, made precisely to appease that very fringe. McCain might have had half a chance, but he was forced by the uncompromising fundies to make an unwise decision.


    I agree. Just look at the GOP's mascot "Joe"-the-Non-Plumber: So much of this "socialism" and "anti-Isreal" gobbledygook being tossed around like a beach ball nowadays originated from this fool's mouth, and is also being used in point-counterpoint arguments among the talking heads like it has any depth or weight. Trust me, even after the election, the lunatic fringe will still be on the watch for "socialism" and will call it out when they think they see it.
  • styrgan

    Posts: 2017

    Nov 01, 2008 6:29 PM GMT
    coolHUSSEINdude saidstyrgan said, "Yeah but how long is it going to take?

    I hate to make an outrageously partisan and irrational comment, but the last time the Democrats held total power, they did so for nearly thirty years before the overreach and corruption of the 60's. Contrasted with about eight years for the Republicans."


    Actually, it was in Clinton's first two years.



    I was referring to more major political realignments, not two years under Clinton, or four years under Carter, which are basically footnotes in an era in which the debate has been shaped by the Republicans, even if they never really had the kind of control the Democrats did from 1930/1932 to 1964/1968.

    Technically, Eisenhower won two terms as President during the thirty or so years I mentioned, and the House did go Republican for four (?) years during that span. No cycle is perfect.

    Besides, I prefaced it by saying it was a partisan and irrational comment. icon_wink.gif
  • SkyMiles

    Posts: 963

    Nov 01, 2008 8:01 PM GMT
    We can hope for the best, can't we? ;) These last 8 miserable years, we've seen this country manipulated into going to war, torture people, suspend habeus corpus, throw aside the 4th ammendment, stand by mired by incompetance while a major city drowned, transfer VAST sums of public money into private hands, transfer VAST private debt into public hands, careen toward financial collapse and teeter on the brink of fascism.

    This time I WON'T say "things couldn't get any worse" because I said that about Reagan.

    I will say that Barack Obama gives me cause to expect much, much better.
  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 19138

    Nov 01, 2008 9:00 PM GMT
    Me thinks some people around here may be counting their proverbial chickens before they are hatched. icon_lol.gif
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    Nov 01, 2008 9:04 PM GMT
    CuriousJockAZ saidMe thinks some people around here may be counting their proverbial chickens before they are hatched. icon_lol.gif


    Oh, yeah---I heard last night that McCain has opened up a commanding lead.

    In West Virginia.

    he he he
  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 19138

    Nov 01, 2008 9:12 PM GMT
    Yes, the tide could be shifting icon_lol.gif
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    Nov 01, 2008 9:36 PM GMT
    CuriousJockAZ saidYes, the tide could be shifting icon_lol.gif


    Yeah, uh huh. I'm more than prepared to concede the entirety of West Virginia to the Republicans. Hell, you can take Alabama with you too.