As Guilty as Gay...

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    Nov 01, 2008 11:58 AM GMT
    Hey everyone,

    Well, I'm typing this because of my thoughts after my outing last night, and since RJ is probably the best place to get advise on this, i have decided to share it with you guys and listen to your opinions...

    Before is tart, please keep in mind that i am not trying to say that being gay is wrong, believe me, i am proud of being gay, but still these are my feelings and cant help having them.

    Anyway, last night I went to the Halloween party at legends (our most famous gay club in Pretoria) and i really enjoyed it there, the problem is the feelings the next morning. I cant help feeling guilty about going to these places and enjoying it so much. When i first came out i hated it, it was awful, and as you might have noticed i am still very young and new to the whole gay scene. But i must say i was kind of disappointed when i came into the scene. I expected it to be like normal, but last night once again i realised that being gay is well....awful. Not that i am saying all guys are the same, but the thing is the guys all just have one thing on their minds....sex.
    And thus it is not normal...by the way i am still a virgin. If you might have wondered.

    The point i am making is that i feel guilty being in this lifestyle if that is the way it is...and please, i am not saying everyone is the same, but in my opinion that the general image that is created.

    Can you guys tell me have you ever felt like this before? Like felling guilty to be gay, and how did you surpass that feelings. Thanks guys for listening...
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    Nov 01, 2008 1:39 PM GMT
    I am not sure why you feel guilty about other guys behaviour especially behaviour in a bar on Halloween night.

    You live in Pretoria or near by and I just did a search on RJ to find out how many guys that have some interest in sports and fitness live nearby. There were 137 matches. It turns out that I have chatted with one of those guys on the IM not very long ago and he seems like a really nice guy. Maybe instead of relying on what you will find in a bar you should contact some of the guys here on RJ in your area and start up a health-oriented organization if none exists already. Take a look at what sports they are interested in on their profiles and try to find a commonality and then contact a few to see if you can form two separate teams or if there is not enough interest in that just get together a few to go do some things like bike riding or catching a movie together. You will still find that some of those men will be interested in sex too but make sure you are clear from the start that your org will be for social and sport interaction only. Sometimes you just have to grab the bull by the horns and do it yourself. Be creative!!
  • emailaddress

    Posts: 313

    Nov 01, 2008 1:54 PM GMT
    yes, everyone felt this way before,


    but you can just choose let your emotion run you over, or think positive and make the best of it.


    if you go to a gay bar, you are exposed to objectification of your body. If you cant handle that, dont go to gaybars. You may find gay bars fun, but you'll get over it as you grow older. There are so many other aspects of life and you can meet decent guys elsewhere, such as gyms, gay-themed activities.



    just imagine, if you were to take part in activities such as around the bay bike ride to raise fund for HIV research, you would much more likely to meet caring healthy individuals than 1 AM at a gay bar.
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    Nov 01, 2008 1:55 PM GMT

    The guilt never goes away!

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    Nov 01, 2008 2:13 PM GMT

    Well, GuiltyGear, I hope you're being facetious, because you have some of the most admirable qualities we've witnessed in a gay man!

    kjplayer, it's important to remember that there are enormous unique talents and wonderful insights and even intuitive perceptions unique to a gay perspective, should any choose to seek it in themselves. Not to mention a level of compassion that comes from the gay intrinsic of understanding men and women both from an inner sense of identity.

    We also think you may have had, like many of us, some hobbling prejudices drilled into you, obviously or subliminally. Try think of it as 'freeing yourself from' rather than 'suppressing' guilt.

    You really can sever this guilt from your sense of self. The first great thing you do, from volunteering to simply being a kind shoulder for someone distraught (in your new found self-recognition of being gay) is the first untying of the restraints of guilt in being gay. Reach down deep into yourself for this and soon you'll find the depth becomes a height you aspire to.

    You'll likely amaze yourself!
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    Nov 01, 2008 2:52 PM GMT
    Hi Kjplayer

    gay bar or straight bar...the only thing any guy has in their mind is sex. You think only gay men go to bars hoping they will score? HA! I went to bars and night clubs before I came out and still go with my straight friends and the main target was to get a girl to have sex with. Now I am just the wing man but the goal of the night is the same, score a girl. Does that make my friends pigs? Sure does but it takes two to tango. The girls are as responsible as my friends are. If they did not want to sleep with my friends or any other guy in the bar, they have that option, but do they take it? No. Same thing with guys at gay bars.This is not at all a gay thing, its a human thing.

    And if you are feeling guilty you must think that you did something wrong. Guilt comes from knowing you broke a rule or went beyond a social norm that you are comfortable with and now have broken. You must think that going out to bars and enjoying yourself is wrong. If this is the case you need to think about what rule or social norm you think you are breaking and see if maybe the feeling is based on something you learned as a child/teenager that you still hold to be true and now are being faced with a different reality.

    I know it is not easy to come out and the world will be all fun and games. It is a process but you need to confront those ideas/situations which make you feel guilty and deal with them. Do not just brush them off as "things" others do and you don't, because if you do not face it and deal with it, you will always have unresolved issues in your life.
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    Nov 01, 2008 2:58 PM GMT
    Dude, it has nothing to do with being gay...
    It has all to do with the fact that you were in a BAR...
    Not all gays have just sex in mind, but ALL bars have sex in mind...
    I know how you feel about people going out to clubs and wasting their life and passing out on the good things in life to just get drunk and get some ass.

    If that doesn't resonate with you, look for gay guys that share your values and interests, and when you find them, become friends with them.
    Start creating your OWN scene; one that you feel comfortable in.

    I've never felt guilty for being gay, but i have felt disgusted about how shallow society as a whole is becoming.
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    Nov 01, 2008 4:12 PM GMT
    emailaddress saidjust imagine, if you were to take part in activities such as around the bay bike ride to raise fund for HIV research, you would much more likely to meet caring healthy individuals than 1 AM at a gay bar.


    I also strongly recommend other ways to socialize within the gay community, besides bars & clubs. Our own 165-mile, 2-day SMART Ride to Key West for HIV/AIDS is this month, and in fact this weekend I'm working on making the overnight lodging assignments for 600+ people.

    http://thesmartride.org/3/

    At the same time, I do enjoy the gay club scene. But maybe it's because I came out late, that I already had enough life experience to recognize the real stuff from the phony, to choose what pleases me there and to ignore the shallow garbage that goes on.

    There are some clubs I don't enjoy too much at all, among them the more extreme leather bars, because I hate the stupid posing and dressing up. I wear real leathers for motorcycling, and find non-bikers wearing cheap imitations almost an insult. It's like kids dressing up in their father's clothing.

    And there's a lot more I don't like about the gay club scene, but enough I do enjoy that I can take it on my own terms, picking & choosing what I want, and rejecting the rest. To each his own, and if kiplayer isn't ready for the gay scene now, or never does care for it, that's fine.

    I actually hear more guys bash the gay club scene than recommend it. I do think it's an acquired taste, and certainly not mandatory. The important thing is to be a person in charge of yourself, who can be selective, recognizing the good from the trash in life.

    And since gay should be what you make it, there's never a reason to be guilty about it, if you choose what works for you, what gives you pride. If kiplayer is having a disconnect here, it may be with trying to reconcile a mature sensibility with the shallowness more typical of some gay club scenes. And there's really nothing wrong with that.
  • DCEric

    Posts: 3713

    Nov 01, 2008 4:26 PM GMT
    It sounds like you mostly just don't like clubs... welcome, I am president of that organization. So, if you don't like clubs and don't have an interest in the kinds of guys that frequent them, look elsewhere. Different people like different things, and there are plenty of gay guys out there that don't have an interest in parting until 5 am.

    icon_smile.gif

    Cheers... and I may be in P-town soon.
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    Nov 01, 2008 4:33 PM GMT
    Ikki_Hussein saidDude, it has nothing to do with being gay...
    It has all to do with the fact that you were in a BAR...
    Not all gays have just sex in mind, but ALL bars have sex in mind...


    Precisely.

    kjplayer, try not feel guilty about being in this lifestyle. From where I am seated, you're not doing anything that warrants it. I think if you were out there diving into it recklessly and causing anyone else heartache or harm, then feeling guilty might be warranted. But just going out there and having fun sampling it? There's absolutely no crime in that.

    I don't know if this helps, but I remember feeling very intimidated when I started venturing into the gay clubs and stuff.... mostly because I didn't know how to socialize among gay men and not think everything that was said to me (or that I said) had a sexual meaning to it. I ultimately found that the club scene was not for me, but that being on a gay sports team was great fun because we had another activity going on besides drinking and flirting. That kind of thing was much more my speed. It's also through a gay sports team that I met my partner... a nice surprise after looking for love/lust in a gay bar where the sexual energy (and desperation, sometimes) was overpowering.

    The point that I am making, I guess, is that there really is not just one "gay scene." Sometimes you have to look hard to find the others, but they are there... and sometimes they prove to be much more fulfilling and fun.
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    Nov 01, 2008 4:49 PM GMT
    Just like everything else in life, YOU make it how you want! Not right to go around making a blanketed statement like that! To each his own and if that was not your scene then you just learned to stay away form that scene, go find your scene and call it a day.


    I still see what the problem is if you had a good time?!?!?!?!? Enjoy yourself and that's it!
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    Nov 01, 2008 4:53 PM GMT
    a1972guy is absolutely right - no guilt needed if you're having a good time. I'm gonna go a step farther .. you DESERVE to have a good time. Just be safe, don't push your own boundaries, and find your crowd. maybe another bar is more your style, or like some of the other guys have suggested - a sports group.

    have fun!
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    Nov 01, 2008 5:22 PM GMT
    If you go to a gay club to party on halloween night, I'm not sure what you were expecting. I go to gay book clubs and discussion groups and sex is never the topic nor pressured. You must realize that the situation you put yourself in have inherent expectations. Generally alcohol, dressing down (i.e., clubs), or any other type of environment fostering flappable behavior is going to make you feel this way..

    If you're feeling guilty going to clubs then stop... otherwise, don't complain about it.
  • mikeeugene

    Posts: 84

    Nov 01, 2008 5:22 PM GMT
    KJ,
    The main thing to keep in mind is don't let other guys define what "gay" is or what "gays" do; they will then expect you to live according to what they think.

    When I was at college, the roughest time I had was with the fellow queers who decided I wasn't "gay enough" by their standards. One even recommended I go to SF and spend some time at a sex club to become less uptight about actually knowing a guy before I had sex with him.

    What you sometimes find is that you come out of one closet with its stale air and find that you walked into another. Instead of fulfilling a straight stereotype, there are plenty of guys, especially the guys whom you find at bars, who will expect you to fulfill their gay stereotype. Screw the stereotypes.

    Be yourself, figure out who you are, and don't let others get you down.
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    Nov 01, 2008 6:39 PM GMT
    I recently went to my first gay club in early october and it was exactly as I expected it to be. People were dancing in their underwear, without shirts, it just looked like lust to me.
    I'm looking for something deeper, and I'm pretty sure I wont find that there, but still I keep going back for the music and vain hope





    icon_rolleyes.gif
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    Nov 01, 2008 6:51 PM GMT


    I didn't feel guilty when I first went to a gay bar half a year ago .. and still don't ..

    But I'm not into it lately .. not into the gay world also .. it's never normal, you'll always go through things that only happen in movies and soap operas ... and I kinda miss the boring life ..

    But still ,in the other hand , it's a colourful community you can enjoy it if you know how to look in the right places and meet the right people..
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    Nov 01, 2008 7:31 PM GMT
    Red_Hussein_Vespa said
    http://thesmartride.org/3/


    I want to do this next year...like REALLY badly.

  • MikePhilPerez

    Posts: 4357

    Nov 01, 2008 7:42 PM GMT
    kjplayer saidHey everyone,

    Well, I'm typing this because of my thoughts after my outing last night, and since RJ is probably the best place to get advise on this, i have decided to share it with you guys and listen to your opinions...

    Before is tart, please keep in mind that i am not trying to say that being gay is wrong, believe me, i am proud of being gay, but still these are my feelings and cant help having them.

    Anyway, last night I went to the Halloween party at legends (our most famous gay club in Pretoria) and i really enjoyed it there, the problem is the feelings the next morning. I cant help feeling guilty about going to these places and enjoying it so much. When i first came out i hated it, it was awful, and as you might have noticed i am still very young and new to the whole gay scene. But i must say i was kind of disappointed when i came into the scene. I expected it to be like normal, but last night once again i realised that being gay is well....awful. Not that i am saying all guys are the same, but the thing is the guys all just have one thing on their minds....sex.
    And thus it is not normal...by the way i am still a virgin. If you might have wondered.

    The point i am making is that i feel guilty being in this lifestyle if that is the way it is...and please, i am not saying everyone is the same, but in my opinion that the general image that is created.

    Can you guys tell me have you ever felt like this before? Like felling guilty to be gay, and how did you surpass that feelings. Thanks guys for listening...


    Kjplayer, Do not feel guilty for the actions of others. Yes (in my opinion) a lot of gay men have just one thing on there minds, and I find it very sad, but I'm gay, and I do not feel guilty that other gay men are like that. You are you, and just be you. Those guys will be old and lonely some day, when you will probably have a great man to grow old with. Just because you are gay does not mean you are them.

    This is (in my opinion) the reason why most people have problems with the gay community. It's not having sex with a man that bothers them, but having sex with a different man every night. And I know this to be a fact with some people. It is amazing how their attitude changes when they realise, not all gay men are like that. You should be proud of who you are, not guilty.

    I just read your profile and you have "Hookup" as one of the things you are looking for. Aren't hookups all about sex? Did you feel you had to put that there? or did you want to put that there? Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to have a go at you or anything. And I'm not expecting you to answer those questions.

    I had a lot of problems dealing with my sexuality, and I was 32 years old before I could accept who I was, so I kinda understand what you are going through.

    Mike
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    Nov 01, 2008 7:44 PM GMT
    Hey guys,

    thank you all for your posts, really apreciate it. Im thinking about all this and agree with yu guys. At this moemtn i just have to cope, mabe somedayit will get better...hopefully
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    Nov 01, 2008 7:48 PM GMT
    Hey mike,

    what i meant with hook us is like meeting guys and going on dates and stuff. I will quickly go change it. Thanks for letting me know what the general idea is meant by hook up...
    icon_smile.gif
  • GQjock

    Posts: 11649

    Nov 01, 2008 8:04 PM GMT
    The operative word here is BAR

    You went to a BAR for a Halloween party
    and you're surprised that the guys there had one thing on their mind?
    Go to a str8 BAR and the guys there are going to be exactly the same
    except they'll be trying to have sex with women

    Yes men are interested in sex
    is that the end of the world? No ...
    If you want to partake - fine
    If not you don't have to participate
    When you go to these parties bring friends along with you so you won't feel like an object
    and HAVE FUN
    if you like to dance - Dance
    if you like to drink - drink

    No one is forcing you to do anything that you don't want to