Gay Pride article from London. Very controversial but I agree

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    Jun 28, 2013 9:02 PM GMT
    http://www.standard.co.uk/comment/comment/ivan-massow-this-new-gay-hedonism-is-not-what-i-fought-for-8678761.html
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    Jun 28, 2013 9:03 PM GMT
    Until you learn how to make a link here I won't bother with this. icon_razz.gif
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    Jun 28, 2013 9:15 PM GMT
    HTTP ADDRESShttp://www.standard.co.uk/comment/comment/ivan-massow-this-new-gay-hedonism-is-not-what-i-fought-for-8678761.html
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    Jun 28, 2013 9:19 PM GMT
    http://www.standard.co.uk/comment/comment/ivan-massow-this-new-gay-hedonism-is-not-what-i-fought-for-8678761.html


    Happy to help.
  • Apparition

    Posts: 3529

    Jun 28, 2013 9:59 PM GMT
    Um...straight guys are all that only with VIOLENCE.
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    Jun 28, 2013 10:24 PM GMT
    "given a place at the table"

    WTF


    NO
    self hate much
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    Jun 28, 2013 10:39 PM GMT
    I agree with his condemnation of drugs and barebacking but I don't understand why he feels the need to paint the entire gay community with that brush.

    Although I found this part rather illuminating:

    "We need to get some perspective. There are, of course, thousands of us living in leafy civil partnerships, contemplating children and playing vital or heroically suburban roles in society."

    It reminds me of a book whose name I can't remember that came out during the Reagan years. There was a lot of backlash to gays which I think was largely due to the AIDS shit having hit the fan and we were blamed for it. The book's basic premise was that the gay community needed to package itself in a way that was acceptable to heterosexuals. That kink, cross dressing, leather, whatever, needed to be discarded.

    I suspect that dustin_K_tx's self hate remark is spot on.
  • AMoonHawk

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    Jun 28, 2013 10:43 PM GMT
    What the hell new gay hedonism are they referring to? Obviously never never went to a gay pride in the past. They are very tame now.
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    Jun 28, 2013 11:10 PM GMT
    Lumpynose saidI agree with his condemnation of drugs and barebacking but I don't understand why he feels the need to paint the entire gay community with that brush.

    Although I found this part rather illuminating:

    "We need to get some perspective. There are, of course, thousands of us living in leafy civil partnerships, contemplating children and playing vital or heroically suburban roles in society."

    It reminds me of a book whose name I can't remember that came out during the Reagan years. There was a lot of backlash to gays which I think was largely due to the AIDS shit having hit the fan and we were blamed for it. The book's basic premise was that the gay community needed to package itself in a way that was acceptable to heterosexuals. That kink, cross dressing, leather, whatever, needed to be discarded.

    I suspect that dustin_K_tx's self hate remark is spot on.


    The book was called "A Place at the Table" by Bruce Bawer. The argument was annoying then, it's stale and tired now.

    Nothing new under the sun. Of course we aren't fighting for "hedonism" but we are fighting to be who we are, no matter what that might be.
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    Jun 28, 2013 11:29 PM GMT
    That's the exact reason why I never attend. Great article.
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    Jun 29, 2013 1:30 AM GMT
    showme saidThe book was called "A Place at the Table" by Bruce Bawer. The argument was annoying then, it's stale and tired now.


    There has been more than one book with the same theme it seems. The one I remember was written by two guys. I think the subtitle, or title was something like "After the dancing stopped" which I took to mean that we were dancing after Stonewall but when AIDS appeared the dancing stopped.
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    Jun 29, 2013 4:02 AM GMT
    I think many of you have missed the point here. This article shows us all to step back and really look at what's going on here. Pride today is supposed to be a commemoration of what happened years ago at Stonewall. Do you know how many gays who actually attend Pride know the history? Not many. They just go to pick up, get laid etc.

    After the events at Stonewall, Pride then was a demonstration and a protest to tell the world gays weren't going to take that sort of discrimination and deserve to be treated equally. It had a purpose. Now...well, just look at that picture in the article. That's what it's become. A display of sex, drugs, not to mention - a direct illustration of the stereotypes we are trying to disassociate ourselves with. Pride now is a joke. It's lost its meaning. That's why I'll never support it and go...unless it changes.
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    Jun 29, 2013 4:11 AM GMT
    hellass saidI think many of you have missed the point here. This article shows us all to step back and really look at what's going on here. Pride today is supposed to be a commemoration of what happened years ago at Stonewall. Do you know how many gays who actually attend Pride know the history? Not many. They just go to pick up, get laid etc.

    After the events at Stonewall, Pride then was a demonstration and a protest to tell the world gays weren't going to take that sort of discrimination and deserve to be treated equally. It had a purpose. Now...well, just look at that picture in the article. That's what it's become. A display of sex, drugs, not to mention - a direct illustration of the stereotypes we are trying to disassociate ourselves with. Pride now is a joke. It's lost its meaning. That's why I'll never support it and go...unless it changes.



    You know what you make an awesome point and I agree with you 100%

    I know myself and many other gay men that dont want to be depicted in ways in which we play no part in. I thought about going to the NYC pride this Sunday until I heard about all the ass grabbing and groping that goes on. Like no I am not a piece of meat. Silly me to think that it was to actually celebrate equality when its all about dancing in your underwear like a whore looking to get quick sex

    Its a shame what the community has turned into. Gays fought to live normal lives with families and shit and now its turned into a quick hit it and quit it and whoring yourself around
  • AMoonHawk

    Posts: 11406

    Jun 29, 2013 4:14 AM GMT
    hellass saidI think many of you have missed the point here. This article shows us all to step back and really look at what's going on here. Pride today is supposed to be a commemoration of what happened years ago at Stonewall. Do you know how many gays who actually attend Pride know the history? Not many. They just go to pick up, get laid etc.

    After the events at Stonewall, Pride then was a demonstration and a protest to tell the world gays weren't going to take that sort of discrimination and deserve to be treated equally. It had a purpose. Now...well, just look at that picture in the article. That's what it's become. A display of sex, drugs, not to mention - a direct illustration of the stereotypes we are trying to disassociate ourselves with. Pride now is a joke. It's lost its meaning. That's why I'll never support it and go...unless it changes.

    If you feel that strongly about it, then should really get out there and do something about it, hell walk around with a sign that say Remember Stonewall ... just bitching about it won't change things. Be the change you want in the world.
  • blueandgold

    Posts: 396

    Jun 29, 2013 7:05 AM GMT
    hellass saidI think many of you have missed the point here. This article shows us all to step back and really look at what's going on here. Pride today is supposed to be a commemoration of what happened years ago at Stonewall. Do you know how many gays who actually attend Pride know the history? Not many. They just go to pick up, get laid etc.

    After the events at Stonewall, Pride then was a demonstration and a protest to tell the world gays weren't going to take that sort of discrimination and deserve to be treated equally. It had a purpose. Now...well, just look at that picture in the article. That's what it's become. A display of sex, drugs, not to mention - a direct illustration of the stereotypes we are trying to disassociate ourselves with. Pride now is a joke. It's lost its meaning. That's why I'll never support it and go...unless it changes.


    +1. More than anything else, pride events make me sad. Few private parties are ok, but last time I went out like four kids asked me where they can get ecstasy. Drug use is rampant at such events. I left feeling deflated... I don't really want any part of that world.
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    Jun 29, 2013 9:03 AM GMT
    It's easy to say we can't paint everyone with the same brush and straights behave the same- but Thr truth is that straight people often have enough people representative of a " normal " life. We as gays have fought for equality but we behave like Peter Pan. And whether we like it or not- AIDS spread initially through the gay communities because of the promiscuity.

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    Jun 29, 2013 10:17 AM GMT
    The writer is on the money about the more visible aspects of gay pride as it is today.

    Sure you still get a minority of people using the event for political/conscious raising purposes but for the most part it is all about drink/drugs/sex.

    It's a fun time but if you take a look around at the majority of people at these events there isn't much to be 'proud' of anymore. God knows I need to self medicate to deal with the sleazier side of pride.
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    Jun 29, 2013 10:17 AM GMT
    hellass saidI think many of you have missed the point here. This article shows us all to step back and really look at what's going on here. Pride today is supposed to be a commemoration of what happened years ago at Stonewall. Do you know how many gays who actually attend Pride know the history? Not many. They just go to pick up, get laid etc.

    After the events at Stonewall, Pride then was a demonstration and a protest to tell the world gays weren't going to take that sort of discrimination and deserve to be treated equally. It had a purpose. Now...well, just look at that picture in the article. That's what it's become. A display of sex, drugs, not to mention - a direct illustration of the stereotypes we are trying to disassociate ourselves with. Pride now is a joke. It's lost its meaning. That's why I'll never support it and go...unless it changes.


    I'm inclined to agree here, I've said it before but a larger emphasis on the benefits the gay community has bought to the world at large would be a far better way to represent ourselves at a celebration.
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    Jun 29, 2013 12:17 PM GMT
    hellass saidI think many of you have missed the point here. This article shows us all to step back and really look at what's going on here. Pride today is supposed to be a commemoration of what happened years ago at Stonewall. Do you know how many gays who actually attend Pride know the history? Not many. They just go to pick up, get laid etc.

    After the events at Stonewall, Pride then was a demonstration and a protest to tell the world gays weren't going to take that sort of discrimination and deserve to be treated equally. It had a purpose. Now...well, just look at that picture in the article. That's what it's become. A display of sex, drugs, not to mention - a direct illustration of the stereotypes we are trying to disassociate ourselves with. Pride now is a joke. It's lost its meaning. That's why I'll never support it and go...unless it changes.


    I also agree. That is the reason I stopped going to prides over 10 years ago.
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    Jun 29, 2013 12:57 PM GMT
    The new gay hedonism is nothing new and its why so many conservatives don't understand or like us. The recent push for gay marriage isn't about love, it's about money.

    Many gays have an unfortunate tendency to be selfish, vain
    creatures who will stab their own in the back for a few entitlement benefits.

    With the repeal of doma, some gays have gotten federal benefits in exchange for assuring that states with anti-gay marriage laws can keep them thus sacrificing the gays in those states.
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    Jun 29, 2013 1:45 PM GMT
    Aristoshark said
    blactor saidIt's easy to say we can't paint everyone with the same brush and straights behave the same- but Thr truth is that straight people often have enough people representative of a " normal " life. We as gays have fought for equality but we behave like Peter Pan. And whether we like it or not- AIDS spread initially through the gay communities because of the promiscuity.

    There is so much wrong with these assertions that I don't really know where to begin.


    Without endorsing the other assertions, you have to admit the factual basis for this one.
    Surely, Aristo, at some point you must have read Randy Shilts" 600-page tome And the Band Played On. It examines in mind-numbing detail the early days of the AIDS epidemic, making painfully, tragically clear the role of sexual behavior in transmitting the virus.


  • chemistry

    Posts: 29

    Jun 29, 2013 4:30 PM GMT
    The gay scene in London is made up of many people who are not originally from London or even the UK so I can understand the lack of cultural and historic context in the struggle to overcome oppression... there is also a generation gap - men in their 40's today lived on the cusp of change as teens or young men and have no real notion as to gay life in pre-pride days.

    The author should be proud of what they achieved but realise that times change and issues change... ie move with the times - perhaps there are new torches to carry - drug education, healthy relationships initiatives etc which could be realised as issues as deep as the oppression he is so familiar with. Far more productive than sitting in the suburbs wringing ones hands clucking like a mother hen whos brood has run astray.
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    Jun 29, 2013 4:36 PM GMT
    mx5guynj said, "The recent push for gay marriage isn't about love, it's about money."

    Wat.
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    Jun 29, 2013 4:37 PM GMT
    Well, I can see by reading this article that nothing has changed since 1976.
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Jun 29, 2013 4:41 PM GMT
    Aristoshark saidTo say that "we" misbehave is to buy into the haters' way of thinking. Some people are hedonists at Pride. But those same people may be charcoal-gray suit-wearing accountants during the week. Funny how everyone thinks that when straights cut loose at Mardi Gras---women flashing their boobs, etc.---it's just hi-jinks but when some gays do similar things at Pride it's somehow a disgrace on all of us. That's so fucked up I can't even imagine it.

    This