California chalk protester hit with gag order

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jun 30, 2013 3:04 PM GMT
    http://rt.com/usa/chalk-olson-diego-san-404/
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    Jun 30, 2013 4:36 PM GMT
    Interestingly, it would probably be 'Criminal Damage' (i.e. vandalism) here in the UK and probably in most other jurisdictions too.

    "A California man facing more than a decade in prison", appears to be media hype. Presumably they are referring to the upper penalty available for very serious cases of vandalism, which this is not. I doubt he'll get sent to prison at all.

    As for the 'gag order', it does seem excessive, but without a full explanation of the judge's reasoning (which the article does not report), it is hard to know if this is reasonable or not.



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    Jun 30, 2013 4:38 PM GMT
    How is sidewalk chalk "vandalism?" It washes away with the rain for God's sake. It's about as much "vandalism" as dirt on the sidewalk. The things that are illegal in this world absolutely baffles me. Very soon we won't be able to do much of anything without it being illegal.
  • musclmed

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    Jun 30, 2013 4:39 PM GMT
    if he just held a sign he would be fine. But he is writing on the sidewalk.

    Your free speech should not change or alter buildings or cause a business to have to clean it even once with simple water.

    He should just get a cardboard sign like everyone else. AFAIK this has been hashed out before and is pretty settled law.

    Try to think about a decision before you blast it. You have a first amendment right to protest. Not to draw on the ground in front of a business.

    It was not just one time, it was many times when he was told not to deface the sidewalk in front of a business.

    A similar case would be the occupy wall street movement. Where protestors started making encampments on public property.

    Protest means protest. He should just bring a blackboard on wheels if he likes chalk. He has to however take the blackboard with him.
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    Jun 30, 2013 4:43 PM GMT
    In the case which set the precedent in English Law, the defendants had drawn silhouettes on the pavement in water soluble paints. The paint would have worn off after a few days wear but the city council arranged to have the pavement cleaned, therefore it was held to be Criminal Damage.

    If writing on the pavement was 'freedom of speech', everyone would be doing it. Personally, I like my streets clean.


    I think the moral of the story is, if you want to protest, carry a placard, instead of writing on public property.
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    Jul 01, 2013 10:10 PM GMT
    Not guilty verdict for San Diego chalk protester

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/feedarticle/10864221

    Olson isn't planning on more sidewalk scrawls.
    "I'm going to think of a more creative way to get my message across," he said.
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    Jul 01, 2013 11:01 PM GMT
    Turns out this is Republican Congressman Darrell Issa's district, the guy who created a phony case about IRS prosecution of Right Wing groups. And this San Diego City Prosecutor, who wanted to send a guy to jail for 13 years for criticizing Bank of America using washable chalk on a public sidewalk, is also a Republican, who received political contributions from BoA. And he got a judge to rule that First Amendment Freedom of Speech couldn't be used as a defense in the case. This article makes good reading:

    http://sandiegofreepress.org/2013/06/law-order-perverted-starring-congressman-darrell-issa-and-city-attorney-jan-goldsmith/
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    Jul 01, 2013 11:04 PM GMT
    Scruffypup saidHow is sidewalk chalk "vandalism?" It washes away with the rain for God's sake. It's about as much "vandalism" as dirt on the sidewalk. The things that are in this world absolutely baffles me. Very soon we won't be able to do much of anything without it being illegal.


    Except that it doesn't rain much here. But yeah, it is kind of ridiculous, but this state is ridiculous central so to speak! (But it's a beautiful place to live).
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    Jul 01, 2013 11:05 PM GMT
    ART_DECO saidTurns out this is Republican Congressman Darrell Issa's district, the guy who created a phony case about IRS prosecution of Right Wing groups.


    Stop lying please. Thanks.
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    Jul 03, 2013 2:41 PM GMT
    musclmed saidif he just held a sign he would be fine. But he is writing on the sidewalk.

    Your free speech should not change or alter buildings or cause a business to have to clean it even once with simple water.

    He should just get a cardboard sign like everyone else. AFAIK this has been hashed out before and is pretty settled law.

    Try to think about a decision before you blast it. You have a first amendment right to protest. Not to draw on the ground in front of a business.

    It was not just one time, it was many times when he was told not to deface the sidewalk in front of a business.

    A similar case would be the occupy wall street movement. Where protestors started making encampments on public property.

    Protest means protest. He should just bring a blackboard on wheels if he likes chalk. He has to however take the blackboard with him.

    How would you judge the Tea Baggers who take their protests out into the street and block traffic without a permit? Less so today, a great deal leading up to the 2010 election.

    There were certain street corners that became blocked here, these sign and flag-waving protestors stepping off the sidewalk and getting right in front of your car. Among the places near me is the major 6x6-lane intersection of US Hwy 1 (Federal) and Oakland Park Blvd. Think the police should have cited them, maybe arrested them?
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    Jul 03, 2013 2:49 PM GMT
    ART_DECO said
    musclmed saidif he just held a sign he would be fine. But he is writing on the sidewalk.

    Your free speech should not change or alter buildings or cause a business to have to clean it even once with simple water.

    He should just get a cardboard sign like everyone else. AFAIK this has been hashed out before and is pretty settled law.

    Try to think about a decision before you blast it. You have a first amendment right to protest. Not to draw on the ground in front of a business.

    It was not just one time, it was many times when he was told not to deface the sidewalk in front of a business.

    A similar case would be the occupy wall street movement. Where protestors started making encampments on public property.

    Protest means protest. He should just bring a blackboard on wheels if he likes chalk. He has to however take the blackboard with him.

    How would you judge the Tea Baggers who take their protests out into the street and block traffic without a permit? Less so today, a great deal leading up to the 2010 election.

    There were certain street corners that became blocked here, these sign and flag-waving protestors stepping off the sidewalk and getting right in front of your car. Among the places near me is the major 6x6-lane intersection of US Hwy 1 (Federal) and Oakland Park Blvd. Think the police should have cited them, maybe arrested them?


    Is it at all possible for you to post something that doesn't include slurs like "tea-baggers" and gross over-generalizations like "all Republicans...." and the like?

    Protests happen. Without permits. On both sides.

    al_sharpton_2001_05_17.jpg
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    Jul 03, 2013 3:24 PM GMT
    chefBH said
    Is it at all possible for you to post something that doesn't include slurs like "tea-baggers" and gross over-generalizations like "all Republicans...." and the like?

    Protests happen. Without permits. On both sides.

    If protests happen on both sides, without permits, then no one here can complain about the San Diego sidewalk chalk guy, can they? Thank you for making my point. icon_wink.gif

    Second, please cite where I said "all Republicans". And if it's before you became an RJ member, you add credence to those here who say you're the sock of a former banned account.

    Third, how can Tea Baggers be a slur, when it's what they originally called themselves? When they ran around saying they were going to "tea bag" the White House and other institutions they opposed? My, what a conveniently short-term memory you have. Except when it comes to RJ, when you suddenly have a long-term memory that predates your present account here.



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    Jul 03, 2013 4:08 PM GMT
    ART_DECO said
    chefBH said
    Is it at all possible for you to post something that doesn't include slurs like "tea-baggers" and gross over-generalizations like "all Republicans...." and the like?

    Protests happen. Without permits. On both sides.

    If protests happen on both sides, without permits, then no one here can complain about the San Diego sidewalk chalk guy, can they? Thank you for making my point. icon_wink.gif

    Second, please cite where I said "all Republicans". And if it's before you became an RJ member, you add credence to those here who say you're the sock of a former banned account.

    Third, how can Tea Baggers be a slur, when it's what they originally called themselves? When they ran around saying they were going to "tea bag" the White House and other institutions they opposed? My, what a conveniently short-term memory you have. Except when it comes to RJ, when you suddenly have a long-term memory that predates your present account here.





    It's a derogatory term. If you can't see that they you are even more of a bigot than I thought you were.

    And your generalizations - you had an exchange with FreedomIsFree or whatever his name is just the other day where he called you out on it. But maybe your bigotry and intolerance prevents you from seeing that too.

    What you DO choose to see is this falsehood that somehow I am someone who "lived here in a past life" of some sort. Weird.
  • musclmed

    Posts: 3284

    Jul 03, 2013 8:03 PM GMT
    ART_DECO said
    musclmed saidif he just held a sign he would be fine. But he is writing on the sidewalk.

    Your free speech should not change or alter buildings or cause a business to have to clean it even once with simple water.

    He should just get a cardboard sign like everyone else. AFAIK this has been hashed out before and is pretty settled law.

    Try to think about a decision before you blast it. You have a first amendment right to protest. Not to draw on the ground in front of a business.

    It was not just one time, it was many times when he was told not to deface the sidewalk in front of a business.

    A similar case would be the occupy wall street movement. Where protestors started making encampments on public property.

    Protest means protest. He should just bring a blackboard on wheels if he likes chalk. He has to however take the blackboard with him.

    How would you judge the Tea Baggers who take their protests out into the street and block traffic without a permit? Less so today, a great deal leading up to the 2010 election.

    There were certain street corners that became blocked here, these sign and flag-waving protestors stepping off the sidewalk and getting right in front of your car. Among the places near me is the major 6x6-lane intersection of US Hwy 1 (Federal) and Oakland Park Blvd. Think the police should have cited them, maybe arrested them?


    Protestors must follow the local laws on protests. Spontaneous protests happen all the time. Laws are broken and the police have discretion on prosecuting.

    why this has to do with the tea party or others is beyond me.

    I am very libertarian and believe in the right of freedom of speech. It does not extend to defacing property. Speech should leave with you and not remain after you leave. Even if it is "chalk"

    He either has to bring a sign or a chalk board that is his own.
    He just simply doesnt want to follow the rules. And he may have to pay with prison time and fines.

  • Apparition

    Posts: 3529

    Jul 04, 2013 2:20 AM GMT
    Right because police there have so liitle to do, they have decided to spend their budget prosecuting THIS...something schoolkids do every day in my neighbourhood. Where are the investigations of high stakes white collar crime? Or for that matter, investigate where a million stolen bikes go every year. Something important. I am sure the big bank can withstand a little criticism until he gets bored...and if they cant perhaps they should hire him and maybe SOLVE the problem he is protesting.