Our RJ buddies victims of persecution - how can we help?

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    Jul 01, 2013 10:10 PM GMT
    Most gays (about 90%) live in countries where to live a "normal gay life" we are used to in the West is almost impossible - it can be a crime harshly punished or social death.

    Can we help our RJ buddies from such countries?
    One possibility is to recommend asking for refugee status (right of asylum)when one of the buddies gets in a Western country. Contries signatories to the UN Convention on refugees have undertaken to protect persons victim of persecution in their home country for a number of grounds. There are traditional grounds : etnic origin, religion, etc. I know for a fact that in my country, Canada, sexual orientation is now an accepted ground to obtain Convention refugee status. When arrived in our country, one could tell any customs official that he seeks such status, and the official would be obliged to act accordingly (a very long process would follow).

    It's about all I know on the subject though.
    Does anyone know if their own country accepts sexual orientation as a refugee protection ground?
    And can anyone recommend any organization in their country which can help at any step of the long process?

    Mostly, it would be nice to read any comments or testimonials on the general subject.
    Luc
  • rooraa

    Posts: 5

    Jul 02, 2013 12:21 AM GMT
    I am from country where u can not say u are gay no one will kill u but u will loose everyone and everything becouse of our religion and mentality of people as well icon_sad.gif
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    Jul 02, 2013 12:46 AM GMT
    I feel real bad when I read that. You seem like a very nice young man, and you so deserve to be treated with dignity and respect. That's for guys like you that I hope we will find ways to help. You just read what I wrote about what to do if you have the chance to enter my country. I hope others will tell you if their own country can be of help, or will give you any kind of encouragement.
    Luc
  • TroyAthlete

    Posts: 4269

    Jul 02, 2013 12:59 AM GMT
    Thank you for calling attention to this.
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    Jul 02, 2013 1:24 AM GMT
    You know in some countries, you get a death sentence for being gay.
    We should say : we're mad as hell, and won't take it anymore.
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    Jul 02, 2013 2:26 AM GMT
    Well done OneUniverse for raising this - it is devastating that such criminalisation continues, or in the case of Russia, is regressing back twenty years.

    While it is a small step, there are alot of groups working on the issue of freedom for LGBT expression like www.allout.org. We can start by sign the petitions there on Russia and Uganda. While it is a very small step, and people can argue the impact of online petitions, it is a good place start to show our RJ buddies some solidarity.

    Well done Roora for forging ahead in difficult circumstances. The irony of me remaining just a torso in a free country like Canada and you being open despite repressive social and cultural norms, is not lost on me - respect to you.
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    Jul 02, 2013 3:00 AM GMT
    I'm in a country where homosexuality is ridiculed!
    my nation accepts homosexuality...but we are not allowed to marry, not yet at least.

    and my religion(Hinduism) openly accepts homosexuality, transgenders etc.,. but most of the people(Hindus) are not all accepting/welcoming.

    Sometimes I think that, religion or not, people are against to homosexuality by instinct rather than beliefs unless they are educated well enough about us.

    It doesn't matter if your religion accepts homosexuality or not, it only matters whether our people accepts it or not.
    It is much difficult if someone interprets some random text in religion as against homosexuality, especially with Islam.

    & Thanks to OP, this is a good thread indeed.
  • jock5827

    Posts: 52

    Jul 02, 2013 3:56 AM GMT
    This is an important topic, and thanks for bringing it up, Luc. In a few countries, LGBT people are finally enjoying equality, but most people who self-identify as gay, lesbian, bisexual, or transgender still live in countries where culture and laws are discriminatory.

    I think it's good that western leaders like President Obama, Prime Minister Cameron, and President Hollande are now considering gay rights along with other social priorities in their domestic agendas and in their dealings with the developing world. Ironic, though, that the harsh rules against homosexuality in many Third World nations are a direct consequence of earlier European laws against same-sex relationships that were introduced during era of colonization.
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    Jul 02, 2013 4:19 AM GMT
    While it is a small step, there are alot of groups working on the issue of freedom for LGBT expression like www.allout.org. We can start by sign the petitions there on Russia and Uganda. While it is a very small step, and people can argue the impact of online petitions, it is a good place start to show our RJ buddies some solidarity.

    Well done Roora for forging ahead in difficult circumstances. The irony of me remaining just a torso in a free country like Canada and you being open despite repressive social and cultural norms, is not lost on me - respect to you.



    Eh fellow Canadian Gymdude! Do you know of specific organizations who could help a courageous guy like our friend Roora here if he ever wanted to seek asylum in Canada?
    And does anybody know of such organizations in other countries?
    Luc
  • Apparition

    Posts: 3529

    Jul 02, 2013 6:33 AM GMT
    like it or not, being out is the fastest way to change people. If it isnt actually illegal in sad countries, they are going to have to bite the bullet and protest etc just like the drag queens did in 1969. Running away wont help the future generations. Change has to come from within. Luckily I was born in a good country but I am old enough to remember when it wasnt so good.

    Since religion is almost always the problem, the first step is leaving the religion you are part of and never look back. Sucks, but it has to be done. If you live in a muslim hellhole where it is illegal...good luck.

    I think we should start a campaign to include pigs and dogs as pictures on our physical currency, especially the 100, it might solve a lot of problems.
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    Jul 02, 2013 11:01 AM GMT
    It is horrendous that gay people are not allowed the freedom to live their life honestly in so many places.

    Yet at the same time; it's not America's (or the West's) place to dive into these countries and demand a change in their entire culture, morality and law. Each country has to make this journey itself and in its own time, just as the USA and other western countries have done so.

    The best course of action is to lead by example and use non-violent or aggressive means to educate and enlighten those societies which have had little exposure, and thus little understanding, of homosexuality.

    The internet has become a great tool for those gay individuals in less tolerant nations to see how freedoms are being fought for in other countries, and hopefully this will give them to strength and power to make changes where they live.
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    Jul 02, 2013 12:21 PM GMT
    gayinterest saidIt is horrendous that gay people are not allowed the freedom to live their life honestly in so many places.

    Yet at the same time; it's not America's (or the West's) place to dive into these countries and demand a change in their entire culture, morality and law. Each country has to make this journey itself and in its own time, just as the USA and other western countries have done so.

    The best course of action is to lead by example and use non-violent or aggressive means to educate and enlighten those societies which have had little exposure, and thus little understanding, of homosexuality.

    The internet has become a great tool for those gay individuals in less tolerant nations to see how freedoms are being fought for in other countries, and hopefully this will give them to strength and power to make changes where they live.


    While it isn't America's place to dive in and demand change, we at least shouldn't finance those countries. Gays shouldn't support a president who visits these countries or sends them US foreign aid.
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    Jul 02, 2013 2:01 PM GMT
    gayinterest saidIt is horrendous that gay people are not allowed the freedom to live their life honestly in so many places.

    Yet at the same time; it's not America's (or the West's) place to dive into these countries and demand a change in their entire culture, morality and law. Each country has to make this journey itself and in its own time, just as the USA and other western countries have done so.

    The best course of action is to lead by example and use non-violent or aggressive means to educate and enlighten those societies which have had little exposure, and thus little understanding, of homosexuality.

    The internet has become a great tool for those gay individuals in less tolerant nations to see how freedoms are being fought for in other countries, and hopefully this will give them to strength and power to make changes where they live.


    You're right guy, it's not the West's place to tell the rest of the world what to do, and non-violence is the way to go.
    But at the same time, it's not just discrimination we're talking about here. For decades we have helped, rightfully so, victims of persecution by reason of race, religion etc. If we can now help gays victim of such persecution (who can't protest or get organized in their country), well if we can do anything about it I think we should. As jock5827 pointed out our leaders are on the right track on this. I must also admit though,that sometimes it is difficult for me to remain in a non-violent frame of mind when I read all the horror stories (like in Iran and Ouganda)on the subject.
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    Jul 02, 2013 2:19 PM GMT
    Oneuniverse said
    gayinterest saidIt is horrendous that gay people are not allowed the freedom to live their life honestly in so many places.

    Yet at the same time; it's not America's (or the West's) place to dive into these countries and demand a change in their entire culture, morality and law. Each country has to make this journey itself and in its own time, just as the USA and other western countries have done so.

    The best course of action is to lead by example and use non-violent or aggressive means to educate and enlighten those societies which have had little exposure, and thus little understanding, of homosexuality.

    The internet has become a great tool for those gay individuals in less tolerant nations to see how freedoms are being fought for in other countries, and hopefully this will give them to strength and power to make changes where they live.


    You're right guy, it's not the West's place to tell the rest of the world what to do, and non-violence is the way to go.
    But at the same time, it's not just discrimination we're talking about here. For decades we have helped, rightfully so, victims of persecution by reason of race, religion etc. If we can now help gays victim of such persecution (who can't protest or get organized in their country), well if we can do anything about it I think we should. As jock5827 pointed out our leaders are on the right track on this. I must also admit though,that sometimes it is difficult for me to remain in a non-violent frame of mind when I read all the horror stories (like in Iran and Ouganda)on the subject.


    Because in some places it was the thought that European countries should go in to other countries and impose their view on what was moral that took the country back in terms of gay rights. And countries like Afghanistan are arguably not much better off than they were even before they were 'helped' by countries in the West when they invaded.

    And often the gay people themselves are self loathing and homophobic because that's what they've been raised to believe about themselves. You strike down all of the homophobes and how many are left to save?

    You have no evidence to say that foreign intervention has ever been helpful in these kind of situations, the countries that are now more gay friendly became so through domestic protests and movements.
  • rooraa

    Posts: 5

    Jul 02, 2013 9:21 PM GMT
    icon_smile.gif i think guys it is easy to say what people must to do in countrys like islamic or min or.... becouse u cannot imagane hat is happning i do not like to talk about problems every person must to solve his life prob with himself to wright here how sad it is and .... so better each person must be strong and do his job some people wana to propest some wanna to be in shadow that is reality and no one can change taht just tme will change everything icon_smile.gif

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-22571216 this was in georgia but no one must to panice it normal peoples mentality here is not ready for that
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    Jul 02, 2013 11:27 PM GMT
    rooraa saidicon_smile.gif i think guys it is easy to say what people must to do in countrys like islamic or min or.... becouse u cannot imagane hat is happning i do not like to talk about problems every person must to solve his life prob with himself to wright here how sad it is and .... so better each person must be strong and do his job some people wana to propest some wanna to be in shadow that is reality and no one can change taht just tme will change everything icon_smile.gif

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-22571216 this was in georgia but no one must to panice it normal peoples mentality here is not ready for that


    Hello Rooraa!
    I just watched the video you recommend. That is very sad to see - thousand of protesters stopping a small gay rally. I really admire your courage.
    The only good thing at the end of the BBC report is when they say your country might have to protect its sexual minorities if it wants to join the European Union.
  • Import

    Posts: 7190

    Jul 03, 2013 12:46 AM GMT
    TroyAthlete saidThank you for calling attention to this.

    wait, since when the hell did u get a nice bod?
    heyyyy icon_redface.gif
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    Jul 03, 2013 1:57 AM GMT
    gayinterest said..it's not America's (or the West's) place to dive into these countries and demand a change in their entire culture, morality and law. Each country has to make this journey itself and in its own time, just as the USA and other western countries have done so..

    And if you saw across your border a child being sold into slavery because that was culturally accepted there?

    You think things out pretty well but I think you're a little off on this because these rights are not only more valuable in themselves when exported, when shared, when made universal, but they will be better sustained for us if we do not simply win them for ourselves but as we win them for others. Once American gays have been fully endowed our human rights, and we're well on that way, this issue ought to be at the forefront of university life for American gay students. They should at least tweet about it.

    http://www.amnestyusa.org/research/reports/making-love-a-crime-criminalization-of-same-sex-conduct-in-sub-saharan-africa
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    Jul 07, 2013 10:39 PM GMT
    I was about to write something similar. Anyone has the right to tell anyone else to stop abusing innocent people.
    I remember how I felt after donating to Haiti and then finding they practice child slavery there.