Here's where Prop 8 failed: Los Angeles

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    Nov 05, 2008 6:19 PM GMT
    http://www.latimes.com/news/local/politics/cal/la-2008election-california-results,0,1293859.htmlstory?view=8&tab=0&fnum=0

    The counties around San Francisco? All shot this stupid thing down, yet LA County approved it 50.4-49.6%. The counties around LA? Even bigger margins (and San Diego county approved it 54-46).

    I'm just puzzled - really thought Hollywood and big money companies would help push this to the trash can, but it didn't. Another time when suburban and rural bigots rule the world.

    Sigh.

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    Nov 05, 2008 7:49 PM GMT
    Well, it's also Hispanics, isn't it? The same macho ethnic group that gave our Florida anti-gay marriage amendment a 62% approval.
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    Nov 05, 2008 7:53 PM GMT
    The so-called "minority" groups are more conservative on social issues, so it is not surprising to see this result.

    Latinos and African-Americans supported Obama, but on a social issue like gay marriage they were expected to oppose it.

    Bush garnered quite a bit of support from Latinos in the 2000 and 2004 elections. The Republicans though turned hard nose regarding illegal immigration which upset a lot of Latinos, thus the switch to the Democrats.
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    Nov 05, 2008 7:56 PM GMT
    Gays have tremendous, untapped, economic power. We could all "sit out the economy" - buying only food, basic supplies and paying bills. Our buying power alone could cripple the state and country (if country wide).

    If we have to fight for rights using such means, then why not? Everyone fights for rights....women did, blacks did...

    Don't eat out? Don't see movies? Don't shop? - exceptions would be gay friendly and gay owned businesses....(there is also an environmental upside to this)...

    At the very least, we should all hit up HRC for a new list of corporations that do not support the gay community and boycott them as best we can.
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    Nov 05, 2008 8:14 PM GMT
    Here's something interesting to ponder - and argue...
    It's illeagal for homsexuals to marry, however, the federal government (and state) seems to have no "real" issue with Polygamy? icon_eek.gif


    I thought that the "accepted" definition of marriage was: a committed union between a single man and a single woman

  • EricLA

    Posts: 3461

    Nov 05, 2008 9:10 PM GMT
    Here's the vote breakdown. Looks like African-Americans and Latinos made a big difference:

    cnnpropo8.jpg

    Frankly, I'm surprised we got the Asian vote on this.
  • joggerva

    Posts: 731

    Nov 05, 2008 9:26 PM GMT
    Interesting Statistics Eric.

    It looks like, despite being a smaller group (10% versus 18%), the African-American community really pushed this into the Yes column moreso than the Latino community. Even if the Latino and "Other" populations had voted No at the same tiny margin that the White and Asian populations had (49/51 - basically even split, so it isn't like there is any particular ethnic group that is really backing us), the overwhelming support from the African-American community would have been enough to make it a Yes.

    So, what does this all mean? I'm not sure, but I hope that groups like HRC are taking note of these statistics and ramping up their outreach programs to ethnic minorities.
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    Nov 05, 2008 9:30 PM GMT
    msw1 saidGays have tremendous, untapped, economic power. We could all "sit out the economy" - buying only food, basic supplies and paying bills. Our buying power alone could cripple the state and country (if country wide).

    If we have to fight for rights using such means, then why not? Everyone fights for rights....women did, blacks did...

    Don't eat out? Don't see movies? Don't shop? - exceptions would be gay friendly and gay owned businesses....(there is also an environmental upside to this)...

    At the very least, we should all hit up HRC for a new list of corporations that do not support the gay community and boycott them as best we can.


    You're fantasying. The day when gays effectively boycott anything, or do anything in unison, is the day when gay marriage becomes a US Constitutional right. Which means, never.

    You couldn't get 2 gay men to agree on who their favorite diva is; do you really think you can get them to agree upon a political course of action? Get real.

    "Oh, I couldn't vote, I had a split nail. And I don't have any plans to get married, so it didn't concern me."

    You will never make a political force out of self-centered, shallow and air-headed gays. A very few have some political balls, but 90% do not.
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    Nov 05, 2008 9:34 PM GMT
    I'm rather surprised that OC came out so strongly Yes. Yeah you're trading uneducated minorities for obscenely wealthy white people (read: trading ignorance for republicans), but you'd think they'd at least have the foresight to realize they're in a world of hurt when their stylists, personal shoppers, clothiers, trainers and others who make their pampered lives so cush walk out on their sanctimonious asses.
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    Nov 05, 2008 9:40 PM GMT
    Red_Vespa said
    You're fantasying. The day when gays effectively boycott anything, or do anything in unison, is the day when gay marriage becomes a US Constitutional right. Which means, never.

    You couldn't get 2 gay men to agree on who their favorite diva is; do you really think you can get them to agree upon a political course of action? Get real.

    "Oh, I couldn't vote, I had a split nail. And I don't have any plans to get married, so it didn't concern me."

    You will never make a political force out of self-centered, shallow and air-headed gays. A very few have some political balls, but 90% do not.

    Ok, you're really starting to piss me the fuck off with this blanket "It's all the gayz fawlts becuz they were too buzy buttfuking to Britnney Spearz instead of voting becuz their shallow hores!" crap.

    Unless you're gonna start pulling some sources, this is hot air bullshit, so cut it out. To think that even a majority, much less most homosexuals were so apathetic about their rights being stripped away is, quite frankly, really goddamn insulting. Every fag I've talked to has voted, and each and every one is devastated by the results, so unless you've got some kind of proof that I've been living in a magic gay bubble where people care and the truth of the matter is that 90% of all homos really WERE too self-absorbed to care, shut up already until you feel like making rationed arguments instead of sounding like John5234239837 reincarnate.
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    Nov 05, 2008 9:47 PM GMT
    I don't think throwing blame around does any good. People are a product of their environment, and it seems that the inland counties were more likely to be favor of prop 8, and the coastal counties were more likely to be opposed. I'm wondering what the gay demographics are in these places. California is a huge state, and you can't just rely on San Francisco, LA, and San Diego (which I hear tends to be more conservative anyway). You have to reach out to inland less populated areas as well because when you combine all of the small counties in California, you probably would still get a population larger than that of the major cities. Having less exposure to a demographic keeps biases alive.
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    Nov 05, 2008 10:00 PM GMT
    TylerSF said_ A tip for you - don't put up your pic _ if i or other guys see what you look like - we will give you a good beat down if we see you !

    Dude.....shut up.
  • joeindallas

    Posts: 484

    Nov 05, 2008 10:02 PM GMT
    typical the minorities get their rights as they should get them. Then they say NO you do not deserve any rights. To those in So Cal remember you can deny a job to anybody over their sexuality. No not hire any Breeders if you can get by with out them
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    Nov 05, 2008 10:06 PM GMT
    BodyWork4 saidHere's something interesting to ponder - and argue...
    It's illeagal for homsexuals to marry, however, the federal government (and state) seems to have no "real" issue with Polygamy? icon_eek.gif


    I thought that the "accepted" definition of marriage was: a committed union between a single man and a single woman



    Lets face it, the whole campaign in support of prop 8 was nothing but a bag of lies suggesting it was salvaging the sanctity of traditional marriage and the family unit when in fact they haven't done one mother fucking thing to preserve it all along. Statistics on failed traditional marriage are staggering and they willingly participated in watching it go right down the toliet.

    The real goal was to fight hard at maintaining the status quo of we vs them. The time honored tradition of making sure all the faggots and dykes know their place in life because the bible makes it clear we are nothing but something they can degrade at will. It would suck if they didn't have some group to define as lesser than them and by allowing gay men and women to legally marry it would have meant in the long run they'd have to find another group with a smaller populace other than the majority to belittle.

    Watching all those fat polyester wearing pathetic beaten down married women holding their sniveling kids in one arm while jumping around in jubilance over this prop passing made me want to fucking vomit. They don't even get how some conservative christian men view them as nothing more than some slave or paid whore to rattle them pots and pans and put out whenever he feels like climbing on top of her for a quick fuck where once again she either fakes an orgasm or never has had one so she has no idea how to even fake it. He doesn't care. She's his vessel to breed and his personal maid. The ride wasn't about her it was about him. She just provided the tits and a hole. They don't even pay attention to the fact that they are used like idiots but privately the joke still remains the same. If she truly does have an opinon she's either a bitch or on the rag but in the long run shut the fuck up and get me another beer.

    I'm even more pissed today over all of this because I honestly believe we underestimated how heavy the African American vote was going to be this year. Had we done a bit more foot work in reaching out to that community we may have been able to counter attack the lies and fear and explain things more clearly.

    We relied heavily on AA celebrities to give our fight a face in ads but pro 8 had over 100,000 on the ground knocking on doors like drug dealers selling their bullshit. I said here about 2 weeks ago that trying to round up solid vocal support from the AA community would be a tough sell given their feelings on homosexuality. They consider it an insult to couple being gay as an equal minority to being African American. The argument is that they were born into their minority with no choice. We, on the other hand made the choice to be gay. So don't ever compare the two.

    I can respect that thought process but if we had taken the time to explain how illogical it would be to think any human being would "choose" a sexuality that knowingly brings on hatred, judgement, and discrimination, not to mention potential alienation from our families perhaps someone would finally understand how invalid that argument is. All we needed was just a solid half of that base.

    The other part of my anger today is that this prop passing was like half of the people in my own state calling me a faggot and having the proud backing to do it. It blows me away that people actually voted for this type of continued treatment giving very little thought to the diversity of our state. We are allowed to die for them, willingly pay our share of the taxes but they still want the right to keep us at a distance. It's fucking insulting to hold the word marriage as prisoner when they can't even live up to their own definition of that word. I do think it smells fishy given all the fucking lies pro 8 put out there it wouldn't surprise me if there has been some fraud.

    Sigh, devastating isn't even the word to describe how I feel but I am far from defeated in all of this because some day this shit is all going to be taken care of properly.

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    Nov 05, 2008 10:09 PM GMT
    Runninchlt saidHaving less exposure to a demographic keeps biases alive.


    This is true. Here is Florida the metro areas voted against the gay marriage ban, but the rest of the state supported it. My friends always tell me that outside of Fort Lauderdale this state is very red-neck and trailer trash.
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    Nov 05, 2008 10:11 PM GMT
    joggerva saidSo, what does this all mean? I'm not sure, but I hope that groups like HRC are taking note of these statistics and ramping up their outreach programs to ethnic minorities.


    Good point. The anti-gay amendments were overwhelmingly supported by African-Americans who voted for Obama.
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    Nov 05, 2008 10:15 PM GMT
    Because of their traditional outlook on marriage or because they were misinformed?
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    Nov 05, 2008 10:19 PM GMT
    Pinny saidBecause of their traditional outlook on marriage or because they were misinformed?


    I don't know the reason, just seeing some polling from the election.
  • twentyfourhou...

    Posts: 243

    Nov 05, 2008 10:20 PM GMT
    jsttennis77,
    Nicely done!
    i thought you were being a bit too harsh but you know what (based on where i was raised and now live) for the most part - you are right on!
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    Nov 05, 2008 10:32 PM GMT
    Pinny saidBecause of their traditional outlook on marriage or because they were misinformed?


    I want to side with believing it is misinformation. I don't want to see this turn into a further wedge between the gay community and the african american community. It's bad enough already and instead of being angry at them I'd rather lay that blame on my doorstep in not being properly respectful to the fact that they were going to be voting in large numbers so we should have reached out to them and taken the time to educate them properly. It was a huge mistake and a foolish assumption to think they would just naturally vote no thinking they were fighting discrimination when they don't want to be coupled with the minority group called homosexuals. They admit we are a minority but feel we are a minority by choice rather than birth.

    I am beyond pissed that at the 12th hour pro 8 sent flyers out saying Obama supported prop 8 which gave us little to no time to debunk that bullshit. Pro 8 was nothing but a campaign riddled with lies. This from a group of so called christians who value God and the family. Sending a clear message to their children some times I guess it's ok to lie in order to get what you want and in this case what they wanted was the continued right to discriminate and publicly show hatred.
  • Barricade

    Posts: 457

    Nov 05, 2008 10:34 PM GMT
    Red_Vespa said
    joggerva saidSo, what does this all mean? I'm not sure, but I hope that groups like HRC are taking note of these statistics and ramping up their outreach programs to ethnic minorities.


    Good point. The anti-gay amendments were overwhelmingly supported by African-Americans who voted for Obama.


    Are you blaming blacks for this?icon_eek.gif
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    Nov 05, 2008 10:35 PM GMT
    Apparently for so-called Christians, the end justifies the means no matter how much they had to twist the truth to get it.

    Whatever happened to "thou shalt not lie" and "love thy neighbor as thyself"?
  • Barricade

    Posts: 457

    Nov 05, 2008 10:40 PM GMT
    Jsttennis77 said
    Pinny saidBecause of their traditional outlook on marriage or because they were misinformed?


    I want to side with believing it is misinformation. I don't want to see this turn into a further wedge between the gay community and the african american community. It's bad enough already and instead of being angry at them I'd rather lay that blame on my doorstep in not being properly respectful to the fact that they were going to be voting in large numbers so we should have reached out to them and taken the time to educate them properly. It was a huge mistake and a foolish assumption to think they would just naturally vote no thinking they were fighting discrimination when they don't want to be coupled with the minority group called homosexuals. They admit we are a minority but feel we are a minority by choice rather than birth.

    I am beyond pissed that at the 12th hour pro 8 sent flyers out saying Obama supported prop 8 which gave us little to no time to debunk that bullshit. Pro 8 was nothing but a campaign riddled with lies. This from a group of so called christians who value God and the family. Sending a clear message to their children some times I guess it's ok to lie in order to get what you want and in this case what they wanted was the continued right to discriminate and publicly show hatred.


    Who is this "them" and "they" you speak of? black people were the deciding factor in Prop 8? Just trying to understand.
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    Nov 05, 2008 10:43 PM GMT
    I don't think you can blame this on minorities AT ALL. African Americans only make up 6.1% of the total California population. Even a 100% yes vote from them is a drop in the total bucket of votes in this contest. Hispanics are more, but still...this was pushed through by the religious forces, the scared suburbanites, etc. The opposition/No on H8te forces organized and fundraised too late also, while the Mormons sent MILLIONS.

    A tragedy on the whole, but not the fault of any small voter segment.
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    Nov 05, 2008 10:52 PM GMT
    Barricade said
    Jsttennis77 said
    Pinny saidBecause of their traditional outlook on marriage or because they were misinformed?


    I want to side with believing it is misinformation. I don't want to see this turn into a further wedge between the gay community and the african american community. It's bad enough already and instead of being angry at them I'd rather lay that blame on my doorstep in not being properly respectful to the fact that they were going to be voting in large numbers so we should have reached out to them and taken the time to educate them properly. It was a huge mistake and a foolish assumption to think they would just naturally vote no thinking they were fighting discrimination when they don't want to be coupled with the minority group called homosexuals. They admit we are a minority but feel we are a minority by choice rather than birth.

    I am beyond pissed that at the 12th hour pro 8 sent flyers out saying Obama supported prop 8 which gave us little to no time to debunk that bullshit. Pro 8 was nothing but a campaign riddled with lies. This from a group of so called christians who value God and the family. Sending a clear message to their children some times I guess it's ok to lie in order to get what you want and in this case what they wanted was the continued right to discriminate and publicly show hatred.


    Who is this "them" and "they" you speak of? black people were the deciding factor in Prop 8? Just trying to understand.


    We needed a much stronger showing of support from the black community which decidedly voted for Prop 8. It was a vote we could have worked for had we been much more respectful to the fact they were going to be participating in this election at a higher rate. Would it have made a difference? We needed just a little over 300,000 to defeat this prop. When the absentee ballots are factored into this I suspect it's going to be under 300,000. There was a base of voters out there we could have targeted much more carefully that we neglected. I don't blame that base I blame people like myself for not going much more heavy for that target. There was a stupid assumption all minorities would naturally vote this down. We took that for granted. We needed those numbers.