Conversation I had with my "friend" regarding Prop 8

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    Nov 06, 2008 12:38 AM GMT
    Read this if you are really bored and interested in someone else's personal drama (mine). I feel like the "moral" thing to do is to still be his friend, but all feelings inside me tell me to ditch this idiot and tell him not to bother me again. What do you think?:

    JAKE BENSON VS STRAIGHT "FRIEND" TEXT MESSAGE WAR I
    (disclaimer: TOTAL drama ahead)

    him: Gay marriage didn't pass, but I didn't want it to only cuz the next step after that would be gay pda in front of children and that isn't a natural way to be raised or something to appropriately influence a sponge minded infant thru adulthood.

    ME: Are you joking or serious?

    him: Serious

    ME: Gay marriage has NOTHING to do with gay pda and there's NO law or ever will be one that makes it ok to do anything more than what heterosexual people do in front of children.

    ME: What about when u got drunk, hit on so many chicks, made out with a fat one, and i had to pull you away from some ugly ho off the street? Is that something natural for children to be exposed to?


    him: To be gay is a choice i think. Just like doing drugs. The more you see it, the more tempted you are on what the hype is all about or think it's okay.

    ME: Well according to your theory you should be a total flaming faggot cuz you've gone to gay bars. And how does it explain me? I was raised thinking being gay was WRONG but I'm still gay.

    him: No im talking about children and infants...Im an adult and can make my own choices knowing right from wrong...There are men that i see and say hey could I see how a girl would like him or whatever. But thats as far a that goes. If a child grows up around it being normal its going to confuse the hell out of him.

    ME: What evidence do you have that shows gay people fuck up a child's psyche? And if a child grows up thinking it's fine to be gay, that's called progression not perversion.

    him: Well none, its just a prediction of whats to come based off of the way kids turn out now days due to one parent or parents having issues with drugs, money, etc. No one is going to use babies as lab rats...We already know that most young actors miss out on childhood and turn out to be fucked...It's just my two cents to the matter...No one influenced my opinion

    ME: I've always tried to be this model gay guy by being friends with straight guys in hopes of them seeing me as normal and getting the hint that not all gay guys are flaming queens. But after your texts it's clear that there are some people that are so retarded there's no point in changing their illogical views.

    ME: Your logic makes NO sense You equate gay people to drugs and actors. That's not even remotely the same thing!


    him: You are tight man...One of the few I've met. But they are out there...But you're the coolest. I'm not racist or hating just thought you'd be interested in my opinion since we are friends.

    ME: I don't think we can be friends if you are that bigotted towards gay people. You have no idea how hurt I feel. That's like me saying I like you but I think all people who are part Muslim shouldn't have kids.

    him: No I was using those as variable that have already been proven throughout time. It would be stupid to make a factual statement on gays like that...I'm just looking at what could happen.

    ME: So you like a ban on gay marriage based on facts that aren't even real, but based on ur hunch that gay parents are just as bad as single parents, drugged, parents, poor parents, and parents that make their children actors. Is this correct? You want to strip gays of all legal benefits even though they will have children anyway?

    ME: There's nothing logical in your reasoning. Your opinion is just as fallacious as those bible thumping retards that pray to jesus that prop 8 will pass because they want to "protect marriage." I feel like I have more evidence to equate you with those people than your illusory correlation to equate gay parenting to other kinds of parenting that are obviously at a disadvantage.


    him: But I'm not Muslim bro...My dad is...I just think if 2 men were to have a baby it wouldn't be natural...Like the man gave birth...Its not a big deal man...Two different opinions. I didnt' want our president to win. But I didn't not want to be friends with who did vote for him...

    Dude Lol... I am not religious...It's just an opinion i didn't think you would get upset about it...

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    Nov 06, 2008 12:47 AM GMT
    TEXT MESSAGE WAR: PART II

    ME: Wtf two men can have a baby now whether or not they get married! Now I know how u see me. As a "drug addict" because that's what gay people are like huh. How do you suppose I should view you? I don't care what president you voted for. But fuck yeh im upset u think i ca't raise kids because you think its inappropriate.

    him: Well the whole thing about children was based on what i wouldn't want my future children to think is normal and okay. I didn't even vote for the prop and im an Arizona res.

    him: I'm positive you could raise a child. I'm not saying anything negative man...Do what you do...

    ME: I don't think i would want my future children to think its normal and okay to discriminate against any two parents based on their sexual orientation.

    ME: I really lost my respect for you. Sorry. I know you're trying to sugar-coat it by differentiating me from the rest, but I don't think u r someone I want to be around ever. And this hurts saying this to u...


    him: Jake ...Your older than me and should know everyone has their own opinions...Be happy im courageous enough to be as cool as im being after what I've been thru half of which you don't even know...Everyone is different...Isn't that what you're trying to prove and here you are hating me for it...Not cool dude.

    ME: Everyone is entitled to their opinions just like i am entitled to not like u for having an opinion that hurt me. I've been abused by faggots too. Even molested and blackmailed for NO reason. I fucking hate gay people in general FAR more than you know. I hate them so much I highly doubt I'll ever marry one. But that doesn't mean I should take away any of their rights. So don't think I should owe u any sympathy just becuz ur not a compelte gay basher after being "raped."

    him: Well that's not what happened and I am sorry I offended you...I was just sharing my thoguhts on the matter and didn't expect to make a thing out of it

    [m]ME: Well then I'll share my thoughts with u then at the expense of making u feel uncomfortable. I've always had a crush on u from day one. Never would tell u this or act on it becuz i respected u and didn't want u to be exposed to yet another fag that hits on u. What's the use now...i don't care anymore. I'm just gonna be myself.[/b]

    him: That's all i ask man...Just be you. You don't have to like a guy to be his friend.

    ME: Uhhhh friendship is defined as liking the person (not referring to anything sexual here).

    ME: And being myself includes saying I think ur a fucktard for the things u said. That's just my opinion and u gotta deal with it right? Cuz I had to deal with urs.


    him: Yea...I don't care....

    ME: I think i hate u so much i ended up liking u again

    ME: Nahhh i still hate u =)

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Nov 06, 2008 12:56 AM GMT
    Your ex-friend is a moron. Good riddance.
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    Nov 06, 2008 1:07 AM GMT
    I think if you truly value his friendship stick with it. You become a very needed vehicle in showing by your own actions how we are all truly equal. The older he gets the lesser his ignorance will be if he is given the privilege of being in your presence. Granted he has a way to go but we are talking about breaking down a life time of ignorance he has been taught by role models in his life who he has trusted to shape some of his own judgement.

    I can't tell you how hard it was to get my conservative christian parents to vote against prop 8. It was a slow methodical process of striping away layer after layer of ignorance but both my brother who is also gay and myself finally got what we wanted. Just be patient but realize the important role you play as the gay friend and the fact that he is paying attention. Remember, he represents one voice that could stand up for you and all you deserve and his voice could eventually be passed along to another and so on. We came mother fucking so close this time. Next time we are going to get this shit.
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    Nov 06, 2008 1:37 AM GMT
    I couldn't be his friend after knowing how he feels. Good luck with that.
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    Nov 06, 2008 3:19 AM GMT
    Jake, your friend makes us laugh over his unsubstantiated
    claims. So, being the good friend you are, roll up them sleeves -(oh wait, you have no shirt on!)
    metaphorically speaking- and educate him.

    Here's a little ammo for you,

    "But are they more prone to same-sex attraction than children raised by opposite-sex couples? The studies that Dr. Hansen attempts to debunk say no, and every legitimate medical and psychological association in the country has publicly stated that sexual orientation is not a choice " From Beacon Hill website - quote from Matt Kaley

    Nearly ALL gay people come from, from....STRAIGHT parents!!

    ...now you know why we laugh at your friend. Poor guy. But after that commercial you wrote, we think you're the right man for the job.

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    Nov 06, 2008 3:43 AM GMT
    Well, like what was previously said I think if you value your friendship with him, you will try to show him why he is wrong (even more) and I think he'll eventually come around. When I came out to my best friend, he told me that he didn't believe me, there was no way I could be gay, I was just going through a "phase" at 19 years old. He also told me that he thought it was a choice, that people choose to live as gay men/women. It took nearly half a year, but he has come around and finally accepts it. Just keep working on him and try not to explode on him. If he hasn't changed any of his opinions after giving him all this info, I'd say screw em'. If he does show a little leeway keep working on it. He does sound close to one of my co-workers though... the other day he asked "Why the &^%$ would anyone vote for a guy who's middle name is the same as a terrorists?" I nearly snapped to say the least. I tried to reason with him, but after a minute I realized it wasn't worth my time or energy.
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    Nov 06, 2008 5:38 AM GMT
    Jeez. Your patience is impressive, and what you said what spot on.
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    Nov 06, 2008 5:48 AM GMT
    Keep up the good fight Jake.
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    Nov 06, 2008 5:48 AM GMT
    icon_eek.gif
  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 19133

    Nov 06, 2008 5:53 AM GMT
    All I can say is that friendships are a very special thing. Many of my dearest I have had 10, 15, 25 years, and those years included some rough spots along the way. But, friendships are worth working through those rough spots because the result is something that you can cherish even more with age because it has weathered the storms and stood the test of time. My advice is to not give up on your friend. He sounds young, and his viewpoint, while hard to relate to, is what it is based on his own upbringing. Be patient with him and try to be the catalyst that helps him maybe understand gays and the lifestyle a little better. The fact that he thinks it's a "choice" tells me that he just isn't educated on such things. He may be harboring some of his own fears or insecurities that he hasn't even shared with you. So, don't give up on your friend, or your friendship, if the friendship is something that is important to you. Boyfriends can come and go, but a friend can last forever.
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    Nov 06, 2008 6:59 AM GMT
    jakebenson said I hate them so much I highly doubt I'll ever marry one.

    icon_cry.gifBut what about me?

    On topic, sorry about your friend. Decision time. It is worth salvaging, or just dropping down the bucket?
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    Nov 06, 2008 7:11 AM GMT
    Move to Canada. I'll marry you. ;)
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    Nov 06, 2008 7:15 AM GMT
    I think he's a highly confused individual.


    maybe this was a cry for help?













    icon_rolleyes.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Nov 06, 2008 7:19 AM GMT
    ME:

    All homos are 2nd class citizens.

    So crawl back into your shell and play your gay pride

    games

    and settle for 2nd best!!

    Me:

    Again......I want your blood to boil!!
  • johnnybravo79

    Posts: 22

    Nov 06, 2008 7:19 AM GMT
    I think your friendship is worth salvaging but yeah like they said earlier "try to make him understand why he is wrong." I also went through the same discussion yesterday with a friend and I was pissed. He later apologized but its not the same icon_sad.gif
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    Nov 06, 2008 7:20 AM GMT
    Can the people who voted in favor of prop 8 because it's "gross" be ruled incompetent?
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    Nov 06, 2008 7:28 AM GMT
    Forgive him, for he knows not what he does...

    Don't give up on him. Perhaps he's only seen homosexuality as a sexual act. Once he sees you settle down, he may concede. Another thread about the reason we lost with Prop 8 (the African-American vote on the issue) reminds us of the view people have of us. We are seen as wealthier, horny, white guys that evoke a selfish attitude. Once he moves past this notion, he will concede.

    Love is very powerful...

    “Love is patient; love is kind
    and envies no one.
    Love is never boastful, nor conceited, nor rude;
    never selfish, not quick to take offense.
    There is nothing love cannot face;
    there is no limit to its faith,
    its hope, and endurance.
    In a word, there are three things
    that last forever: faith, hope, and love;
    but the greatest of them all is love.” - Corinthians


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    Nov 06, 2008 8:27 AM GMT
    jake, cut him off. he's not worth your time. i read through only a portion of his diatribes and i wanted to punch him in the throat.

    he is NOT your friend. he obviously has no respect for you given that exchange.

    btw, the folks who put together the rally in west hollywood last night, are going to hold a press conference at the Mormon Temple later today at 2pm. they're doing that and confronting them for their actions.

    everyone is invited to come out and support

    thought you might be interested =0)
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    Nov 06, 2008 8:48 AM GMT
    Thanks for all the advice.

    Sorry but he was not remotely close enough for me to keep my friendship with him. I deleted him off my myspace, which should make a HUGE impact on him since I was #4 on his top list. He'll get the hint that he's a fucking idiot and doesn't deserve my friendship.
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    Nov 06, 2008 8:50 AM GMT
    even if im sure youve been a good friend to him, i dont think he thinks of you as a valuable human being. sumtimes you just need to distance yourself from that. you cant reason with madness, after all. just live on the legacy of Evelyn Hooker, the psychiatrist who, through research basically proved that gays arent poorly adjusted at all- by continuing to be a great person to all those that are supportive of you. hope it turns out well. i think we've all had to go through things like this in the past. but there is hope. my little sister's generation keeps getting more and more open minded.
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    Nov 06, 2008 9:26 AM GMT
    You know the old saying, "With friends like that...."
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    Nov 06, 2008 9:30 AM GMT
    jakebenson saidThanks for all the advice.

    Sorry but he was not remotely close enough for me to keep my friendship with him. I deleted him off my myspace, which should make a HUGE impact on him since I was #4 on his top list. He'll get the hint that he's a fucking idiot and doesn't deserve my friendship.


    My hero!

    No seriously... convos like this are what need to happen. Most people are afraid to share their opinions... they don't like being labeled as bigots by society. MAYBE.... he may rethink his position later on in life. He should visit the APA's websites' and see what the professionals say aboiut gays and gays raising children. Then again, the people of Arkansas didn't care about the professional's point of view.

    Side note: Forgive him for his ignorance and move on Forget about him... the hate inside is not good for you. Let is go and move on.
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    Nov 06, 2008 9:35 AM GMT
    Both of you really need to read at least 9 Philip Roth books...
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    Nov 06, 2008 10:00 AM GMT
    I dunno, personally i thought you overreacted a little. Yeah his views are screwed up but everyone has a right to their opinion. You can't MAKE someone see your point of view. Just like you being gay was not a choice; his views were probably influenced by his family/past. You mentioned his family being muslim? I think that's pretty special for someone with his background to accept you for who you are. Friendships are about seeing through those differences... but that's just my 2 cents.

    I think you should remain friends with him and show him what you truly mean. Actions speak louder than words. But as for maintaining the friendship, go with what your heart tells you. If you truly don't feel you can be friends with him then that's that icon_smile.gif

    And although you may not have seen him as a close friend, it seems he held you in high regard. #4 on myspace? that's pretty good!