Forgetting Bayard Rustin

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    Nov 06, 2008 4:30 AM GMT
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/uselection2008/barackobama/3388430/Barack-Obama-may-have-helped-California-Proposition-8-gay-marriage-ban-pass.html

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    One of the most active proponents of civil rights was gay, ffs. He only took the backseat to Malcolm X and MLK because of that fact, as a result he seems to be all but forgotten among african-americans.
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    Nov 06, 2008 4:34 AM GMT
    Sedative saidhttp://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/uselection2008/barackobama/3388430/Barack-Obama-may-have-helped-California-Proposition-8-gay-marriage-ban-pass.html

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    One of the most active proponents of civil rights was gay, ffs. He only took the backseat to Malcolm X and MLK because of that fact, as a result he seems to be all but forgotten among african-americans.


    As well as LBGT americans. icon_wink.gif
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    Nov 06, 2008 4:41 AM GMT
    Heh. I'm tempted to post fisting and rimming pics to show MagicMeatStick what he really needs! icon_lol.gif But I don't wanna get banned too, so whatever. icon_razz.gif

    Anyway, Prop 8 passing really friggin sucks.
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    Nov 06, 2008 4:44 AM GMT
    That uniquesexygirls pic is the first good one that these guys post. When it comes to trolling forums, you people are so fucking lame. Posting pictures of vaginas? Very creative.
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    Nov 06, 2008 4:47 AM GMT
    omg.... those.. pics... were.. horrible.... im going to have nightmares now
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    Nov 06, 2008 4:48 AM GMT
    Sedative saidhttp://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/uselection2008/barackobama/3388430/Barack-Obama-may-have-helped-California-Proposition-8-gay-marriage-ban-pass.html

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    One of the most active proponents of civil rights was gay, ffs. He only took the backseat to Malcolm X and MLK because of that fact, as a result he seems to be all but forgotten among african-americans.


    Not this African-American. I've always admired B. Rustin icon_smile.gif.
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    Nov 06, 2008 4:49 AM GMT
    BlkMuscleGent said
    Sedative saidhttp://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/uselection2008/barackobama/3388430/Barack-Obama-may-have-helped-California-Proposition-8-gay-marriage-ban-pass.html

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    One of the most active proponents of civil rights was gay, ffs. He only took the backseat to Malcolm X and MLK because of that fact, as a result he seems to be all but forgotten among african-americans.


    Not this African-American. I've always admired B. Rustin icon_smile.gif.


    Ditto. There are gay african-americans too. icon_smile.gif
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    Nov 06, 2008 4:53 AM GMT
    i don't understand what that article has to do with rustin

    EDIT:
    nix that, i understand your point now

    EDIT, part 2:
    yes, i understood that before you broke it down, but thank you babe
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    Nov 06, 2008 4:53 AM GMT
    I know but the mainstream black population seem to not remember him and even take offense when we equate gay marriage with black civil rights when even Coretta King was for GLBT rights. :/

    http://www.nbjcoalition.org/news/is-marriage-for-same-sex.html

    dancerjack: 70% African American votes.

    Rustin was black AND Gay AND one of the main forces behind Martin Luther King (among others) who fought for equality. Get the connection? They owe the man at the very least recognition for what he did. But you don't hear about him anymore.

    P.S. I don't know about the veracity of this article, but suffice to say that my straight black friends didn't even know who Rustin was.

    P.P.S. i sent MagickMeatStick some fisting pics! ROFLMAO
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    Nov 06, 2008 4:58 AM GMT
    Look. Whats the predominate image of homosexual men? Middle-Upperclass, sex obsessed, WHITE man.

    This is what black people think about when they think about gay people. Why would they be so empathetic towards gay rights?
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    Nov 06, 2008 5:03 AM GMT
    CitizenSol saidLook. Whats the predominate image of homosexual men? Middle-Upperclass, sex obsessed, WHITE man.

    This is what black people think about when they think about gay people. Why would they be so empathetic towards gay rights?


    Still. There are close ties between the GLBT movement and MLK's movement, the straights should at least know about that regardless of the mass media image of homosexuals. :/ This is history. A legacy as solid as that of King's.
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    Nov 06, 2008 5:03 AM GMT
    sol,

    i had a moment of wanting to slap the taste out of your mouth, but then i realized you have a very good point... soooooo, now what? how does that change?
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    Nov 06, 2008 5:06 AM GMT
    Bah! Are any of you taking this thread as racist? LOL icon_rolleyes.gif

    It is NOT! Neither is it an attack on african-americans.

    I'm just concerned at the lack of knowledge of Rustin, IF those 70% knew about him, how would you reckon they'd vote regarding Prop 8?

    I for one am educating my friends about him. They seriously had no idea who he was. (I'm talking about heterosexual african americans btw)
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    Nov 06, 2008 5:06 AM GMT
    We actually had some postings about Bayard Rustin back during the last Martin Luther King Day. There is an excellent documentary about him called Brother Outsider. I saw this on PBS years ago and was amazed at the Life and work of this man who was ahead of his time.

    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/87620/

    I gave away 3 copies of the DVD and am tempted to do it again! Sed, I wish I could send you a copy but our last book mail order attempt to the Philippines did not work icon_cry.gif
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    Nov 06, 2008 5:07 AM GMT
    LOL yeah icon_sad.gif

    Don't worry I'll try and find a copy somewhere. icon_smile.gif
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    Nov 06, 2008 5:20 AM GMT
    Sedative saidI'm just concerned at the lack of knowledge of Rustin, IF those 70% knew about him, how would you reckon they'd vote regarding Prop 8?
    Actually Sed, there is a Rustin center in L.A. that fought against prop 8 along with many other organizations. Look at the list here:

    http://noonprop8.vox.com/library/post/no-on-prop-8.html

    The problems is that there were so many fundamentalist organizations (like some Mormons and Catholics ) from out of state that poured money into proposition 8 and energized the right wingers. I wouldn't be surprised if there were people that could have voted against it that maybe didn't feel it affected them so they didn't vote.

    I also wonder if there were some cases that probably thought they were voting for gay marriage by saying yes. I actually talked to one coworker before she went and had to correct her on that .. she almost voted yes by mistake.

    Anyway, we will win eventually if we don't give up.

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    Nov 06, 2008 5:28 AM GMT
    lilmaninsc saidomg.... those.. pics... were.. horrible.... im going to have nightmares now


    here's a solution to your nightmares:

    hot_guys.jpg

    mkpic82.jpg

    I hope this help
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    Nov 06, 2008 5:28 AM GMT
    Indeed. An Australian friend of mine thought a Yes on Prop 8 meant gay marriage. Heh

    Anyway, yeah, it's not the end. But it still sucks. icon_mad.gificon_sad.gif
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    Nov 06, 2008 5:34 AM GMT
    Sedative said
    CitizenSol saidLook. Whats the predominate image of homosexual men? Middle-Upperclass, sex obsessed, WHITE man.

    This is what black people think about when they think about gay people. Why would they be so empathetic towards gay rights?


    Still. There are close ties between the GLBT movement and MLK's movement, the straights should at least know about that regardless of the mass media image of homosexuals. :/ This is history. A legacy as solid as that of King's.


    Completely true. If only there were people to bring it to everyone's attention. Your the only guy to bring up Rustin on this site and your neither white or black. icon_smile.gif
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    Nov 06, 2008 5:44 AM GMT
    Here is a clip from brother outsider

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    Nov 06, 2008 5:47 AM GMT
    Here is more .. debating Malcom X .. again Bayard ahead of his time like so many queers ..

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    Nov 06, 2008 5:51 AM GMT
    dancerjack saidsol,

    i had a moment of wanting to slap the taste out of your mouth, but then i realized you have a very good point... soooooo, now what? how does that change?


    lol. Thanks for realizing my point. The most important thing is for more gay black exposure for sure. That would mean gay black folk will have to exert themselves more but that will also mean gay blacks will have to identify with the "gay community" more. Its hard to do that when yes, when you think of a gay person the first thing that comes to mind is a white, fit, middle-upperclass, licentious male. So I'm hoping these gay magazines and porno companies, and newspapers as well as any gay media will become more open towards more gay black members joining their ranks.

    And it wouldn't hurt if non-black LBGT people would try to communicate their feelings on being mistreated as a gay person more often to black heterosexuals. But I guess in order to do that you'd have to befriend them more but I understand the seperation because its typically a seperation of culture.

    And yes, stop comparing gay rights to black civil rights. Both communities are around the same level when it comes to discrimination...NOW. But when you compare the two situations, black people immediately conjure up whole black communities being lynched despite being freed from slavery. They conjure up images of black men being castrated. They see crowds of black people being sprayed with water hoses and attacked by dogs. All by the decree of the freest government on earth.

    The gay community as a whole has never faced anything like that and you insult black people when you compare the situations. Try being more specific. Point to the acts of discrimination gay people face that black people face.

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    Nov 06, 2008 6:07 AM GMT
    CitizenSol said
    And yes, stop comparing gay rights to black civil rights. Both communities are around the same level when it comes to discrimination...NOW. But when you compare the two situations, black people immediately conjure up whole black communities being lynched despite being freed from slavery. They conjure up images of black men being castrated. They see crowds of black people being sprayed with water hoses and attacked by dogs. All by the decree of the freest government on earth.

    The gay community as a whole has never faced anything like that and you insult black people when you compare the situations. Try being more specific. Point to the acts of discrimination gay people face that black people face.
    Sol I have to say that I think this kind of thinking is a mistake for many reasons. Homosexuals have been horribly persecuted for CENTURIES in the ways African Americans were and worse. Here is the problem. Education on the facts. Unlike hetero-sexual minorities, there have never been a whole lot of children of Gays to tell the story. Also, homosexuals have had to hide their sufferings because they have never had powerful allies and advocates until perhaps now. If someone made a comprehensive study of all the injustices Gays have suffered through the ages, I am sure it could well fill an encyclopedia.

    You know how Jews went through a horrible holocaust until they were freed by the allies? Gays went through the same thing except it continued somewhat after liberation because perhaps it was felt we deserved it. No one ever told out story until relatively recently. If you are Gay .. this is your heritage too! Take a look here for starters:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_persecution_of_gays

    does this sound familiar?
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_persecution_of_gays#Concentration_campsThe harsh treatment can be attributed to the view of the SS guards toward gay men, as well as to the homophobic attitudes present in German society at large. The marginalization of gay men in Germany was reflected in the camps. Out of the 5,000 to 15,000 homosexuals who were in these concentration camps, many died from savage beatings, some of them caused by other prisoners. Nazi doctors often used gay men for scientific experiments in an attempt to locate a "gay gene" to "cure" any future Aryan children who were gay.

    An account of a gay Holocaust survivor, Pierre Seel, details life for gay men during Nazi control. In his account he states that he participated in his local gay community in the town of Mulhouse. When the Nazis gained power over the town his name was on a list of local gay men ordered to the police station. He obeyed the directive to protect his family from any retaliation. Upon arriving at the police station he notes that he and other gay men were beaten. Some gay men who resisted the SS had their fingernails pulled out. Others were raped with broken rulers and had their bowels punctured, causing them to bleed profusely. After his arrest he was sent to the concentration camp at Schirmeck. There, Seel stated that during a morning roll-call, the Nazi commander announced a public execution. A man was brought out, and Seel recognized his face. It was the face of his eighteen-year-old lover from Mulhouse. Seel then claims that the Nazi guards stripped the clothes of his lover and placed a metal bucket over his head. Then the guards released trained German Shepherd dogs on him, which mauled him to death.

    Experiences such as these can account for the relatively high death rate of gay men in the camps as compared to the other "anti-social groups." A study by Ruediger Lautmann found that 60% of gay men in concentration camps died compared to 41% for political prisoners and 35% for Jehovah's Witnesses. The study also shows that survival rates for gay men were slightly higher for internees from the middle and upper classes and for married bisexual men and those with children.
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    Nov 06, 2008 6:16 AM GMT
    Too. Much. icon_smile.gif

    But seriously. Here's the problem, I, me, personally, can't really relate to those people. I can and I can't. I relate more to my race and my country and so does most black people. I'm sorry if this comes off as cold but I just can't think to myself "THIS, is my heritage". And thats the main reason I just fail to grip your argument.

    I get what your saying though but this just goes in with my "gay blacks hardly relate to gay whites". Try going to a group of black gay men and relaying that argument. They'll just shrug. Black people were killed in the concentration camps too.
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    Nov 06, 2008 6:33 AM GMT
    CitizenSol said I'm sorry if this comes off as cold but I just can't think to myself "THIS, is my heritage". And thats the main reason I just fail to grip your argument.
    It's OK if you truly don't relate. But see, this is the problem with discrimination even between minority groups and humanity in general. We have a hard time stepping out of our own issues enough so that the next person's suffering and problems never become our own. The only way to even begin to end discrimination is by seeing that we are more alike than different. Friendship and integration is the gateway to change.