Bible busters: uncensored

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jul 12, 2013 2:35 PM GMT
    Skeptic's Annotated Bible
    Skeptic's Annotated Quran

    hceygndr4uojctl7bvuwqq.gif



    This young man and his Bible-bustin' group publicly debunked Biblical "inerrancy"/"infallibility" in Huntington Beach, CA (local relative to me).


    Zinnia Jones confronted WBC in Chicago in 2010. ZJ is a transgendered atheist vlogger who applies logic to expose, refute, and provoke bigots, haters, and hypocrites. He/she has a female partner.
    Me and the WBC
  • nwexplorer

    Posts: 4

    Jul 12, 2013 5:19 PM GMT
    plato figured this out centuries before christianity in his euthyphro dilemma. He basically said God either created his laws arbitrarily, or he received his laws from a higher power. Therefore, God is either not good or not God. The argument's been challenged a lot but i think it's fundamentally pretty strong, and it applies particularly well to the christian god
  • bro4bro

    Posts: 1035

    Jul 12, 2013 7:44 PM GMT
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  • Stregone

    Posts: 137

    Jul 12, 2013 9:17 PM GMT
    bro4bro said[url][/url]


    very educational
    plus you can have a glympse of his balls too icon_biggrin.gif
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    Jul 15, 2013 12:29 PM GMT
    The Bible is history. It's very inerrant and always moral. Look what I found.

    LEVITICUS 26:29
    KJV: “And ye shall eat the flesh of your sons, and the flesh of your daughters shall ye eat.”
    NCV: “You will eat the bodies of your sons and daughters.”

    NUMBERS 31:17
    KJV: “Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.”
    NCV: “Kill all the Midianite boys, and kill all the Midianite women who have had sexual relations.”

    EZEKIEL 23:20
    KJV: “For she doted upon their paramours, whose flesh is as the flesh of asses, and whose issue is like the issue of horses.”
    NCV: “She wanted men who behaved like animals in their sexual desire.”
    NIV: “There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses.”

    COLOSSIANS 3:22
    KJV: “Servants, obey in all things your masters according to the flesh; not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but in singleness of heart, fearing God.”
    NCV: “Slaves, obey your masters in all things. Do not obey just when they are watching you, to gain their favor, but serve them honestly, because you respect the Lord.”

    ROMANS 1:26
    KJV: “For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature.”
    NCV: “Because people did those things, God left them and let them do the shameful things they wanted to do. Women stopped having natural sex and started having sex with other women.”

    REVELATION 2:23
    KJV: “And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.”

    REVELATION 17:16
    KJV: “And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.”

    JOB 39:9–12
    KJV: "Will the UNICORN be willing to serve thee, or abide by thy crib? Canst thou bind the UNICORN with his band in the furrow? or will he harrow the valleys after thee? Wilt thou trust him, because his strength is great? or wilt thou leave thy labour to him? Wilt thou believe him, that he will bring home thy seed, and gather it into thy barn?"

    PSALMS 22:21
    KJV: "Save me from the lion's mouth: for thou hast heard me from the horns of the UNICORNS."
    NCV: "Rescue me from the lion's mouth; save me from the horns of the bulls."

    ISAIAH 34:7
    KJV: "And the UNICORNS shall come down with them, and the bullocks with their bulls; and their land shall be soaked with blood, and their dust made fat with fatness."
    NCV: "The oxen will be killed, and the cattle and the strong bulls. The land will be filled with their blood, and the dirt will be covered with their fat."

    Amen indeed. Spread the Word.
    God bless you.
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    Jul 15, 2013 1:22 PM GMT
    The point of Euthyphro wasn't to disprove God or the gods, but rather to challenge and deconstruct the notion of "the Good." It was an extremely inconclusive dialogue, something which could be interpreted as an implicit statement in favour of relativism.

    The Bible is complicated and easy to misrepresent. I don't believe in "thumping" it, but I don't believe in "busting" it either. It poses a few very good and important questions, nevermind some of its fairly atrocious answers.

    "So I commend enjoyment, for there is nothing better for people under the sun than to eat, and drink, and enjoy themselves, for this will go with them in their toil through the days of life that God gives them under the sun." - Ecclesiastes 8:15.
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    Jul 17, 2013 9:53 AM GMT
    Akhuan saidThe point of Euthyphro wasn't to disprove God or the gods, but rather to challenge and deconstruct the notion of "the Good." It was an extremely inconclusive dialogue, something which could be interpreted as an implicit statement in favour of relativism.

    The Bible is complicated and easy to misrepresent. I don't believe in "thumping" it, but I don't believe in "busting" it either. It poses a few very good and important questions, nevermind some of its fairly atrocious answers.

    "So I commend enjoyment, for there is nothing better for people under the sun than to eat, and drink, and enjoy themselves, for this will go with them in their toil through the days of life that God gives them under the sun." - Ecclesiastes 8:15.


    While sacred scriptures include moral proverbs, the various Bible versions apparently contain many violent commandments, historical and scientific discrepancies, and internal self-contradictions.

    Therefore, it's necessary to debunk the false preconceptions that the Bible is the inerrant/infallible moral truth, which many literalist fundy zealots, socially conservative Christians, and right-wing politicians still insist.
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    Jul 17, 2013 11:51 AM GMT
    bewareofdogma: While sacred scriptures include moral proverbs, the various Bible versions apparently contain many violent commandments, historical and scientific discrepancies, and internal self-contradictions.

    Therefore, it's helpful to debunk the false preconceptions that the Bible is the inerrant/infallible moral truth, which many literalist fundy zealots, socially conservative Christians, and right-wing politicians still insist.


    jockfever: Responding to all the remarks above is beyond the scope of my comment. The various attacks on God and the Bible in this topic are not new, and experts have refuted them repeatedly.

    But some comments are in order.

    The Bible doesn't just contain moral proverbs, it contains the Ten Commandments, the basis for our justice system, which is why they are displayed at the US Supreme Court, even if no longer honored there.

    The Bible is the basis for Western Civilization. It revolutionized many important concepts including human dignity and rights.

    Bible believers created the most free, prosperous, and tolerant societies in history. They also built
    the foundations of modern science, and the greatest works of music, art, architecture, and literature. You don't do all of that based on fables.

    The Bible's history is routinely validated by archeological finds and secular documents.

    The Bible's divine inspiration is validated by its fulfilled prophecies -- thousands of them. Some Bible prophecies, like the miraculous rebirth of the state of Israel, increasing anti-Semitism in the world, and the unholy alliance between Iran and Russia, have been fulfilled recently or are being fulfilled in today's headlines.

    "Nothing created Everything" is nonsense. The idea that God would create man, and leave him
    with no idea about where he came from, no idea of what is expected of him, and no idea of where he is headed, is not sensible.

    Lists of alleged errors and inconsistencies in the Bible have been around for thousands of years. They contain nothing new and nothing notable. Man's role in transcribing the Bible makes it subject to mistranslations and other minor errors. The main content is not affected.

    "Not a single word in the Bible has ever been disproved by true science."

    Man's fallen nature is the prime motivation for trying to discredit God and the Bible.

    If the Bible and God can be set aside, anything is permitted. Man supposedly "escapes" into the fake freedom of moral non-accountability, especially for sexual immorality.

    Few things are as foolish as man presuming to sit in judgment on God and His inspired word. He made everything, and He gets to make the rules.

    Much is made in one of the videos about mass murder and genocide. When a person or persons shakes his or their fist at God, and engages in acts like infanticide, idolatry, and making war on God's chosen people, it's like asking for death.

    Real mass murder is practiced by those who reject God and the Bible. "The total body count for the ninety years between 1917 and 2007 is approximately 148 million dead at the bloody hands of fifty-two atheists, three times more than all the human beings killed by war, civil war, and individual crime in the entire twentieth century combined."

    Man's wisdom is foolishness to God.

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    Jul 17, 2013 2:55 PM GMT

    jockie said,

    ""Not a single word in the Bible has ever been disproved by true science."

    OK, let's use a little science of evidence.



    "Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long in the land which the Lord your God gives you"

    Now look at this, and then go tell those children that commandment.

    http://greece.greekreporter.com/2013/05/02/patras-parents-charged-with-sexual-abuse/
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    Jul 18, 2013 1:48 AM GMT
    Leviticus 27:29No person devoted to destruction[l] may be ransomed; they are to be put to death.
    The NIV footnote [l] statesLeviticus 27:29 The Hebrew term refers to the irrevocable giving over of things or persons to the Lord, often by totally destroying them.

    This is a law about human sacrifice. It's in the section of the Law devoted to tithing. I wonder why this isn't mentioned more.
  • Stregone

    Posts: 137

    Jul 19, 2013 2:00 PM GMT
    1075766_487594064662214_1143441475_n.jpg

    This made me laugh!
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    Jul 22, 2013 8:30 PM GMT
    meninlove: jockie said, ""Not a single word in the Bible has ever been disproved by true science."
    OK, let's use a little science of evidence.
    "Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long in the land which the Lord your God gives you"
    Now look at this, and then go tell those children that commandment.


    jockfever: Nothing in the Bible or in the Ten Commandments encourages child abuse, or discourages abused children from reporting abuse to authorities.

    The Bible commands parents to cherish their children as blessings and gifts from God. The Bible is pro-child and does not, to my knowledge, contain one example of child abuse.

    A civilized western society, based on the Bible, prosecutes abusive parents.

    Until the Jewish Bible and culture, ancient pagan societies gave parents the unconditional right to kill their children.

    The depravity of Carthage shocked the Roman legions. Plutarch: The Carthaginians "offered up their own children, and those who had no children would buy little ones from poor people and cut their throats as if they were so many lambs or young birds; meanwhile the mothers stood by without a tear or moan."

    Remnants of this mentality lingered in places such as Asia where female children were killed, and still lives on today, where Biblical influence is weak.

    In the long run children can honor abusive parents by forgiving them, an essential step in the healing process.









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    Jul 23, 2013 3:47 PM GMT

    Jockie said, "In the long run children can honor abusive parents by forgiving them, an essential step in the healing process."

    *tries not to vomit*
  • Sebastian18

    Posts: 255

    Jul 23, 2013 4:01 PM GMT
    Historically, the primary form of Scriptural exegesis seems to lean more toward a figurative or inspired text approach in Jewish, Christian and Islamic forms. Interpretation of the text from an exegetical and hermaneutic perspective really presents several different and critical levels of interpretation of Scripture and this, by and large, has been the overwhelming norm throughout most of history. Literal belief in Scripture as the unaltered, unerring word of Godhead has always been an exception and not the rule.
  • oc923

    Posts: 4

    Jul 23, 2013 4:19 PM GMT
    The Bible is God's inspired word and it seems that many individuals are taking literally the verses that are symbolic and are therefore being stumbled and shocked without examining the whole text.
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    Jul 23, 2013 4:26 PM GMT
    jockfeverA civilized western society, based on the Bible, prosecutes abusive parents.

    Until the Jewish Bible and culture, ancient pagan societies gave parents the unconditional right to kill their children.


    I strongly object to this indictment of all pre-judaeochristian cultures.

    Moral validity, historical veracity and scientific accuracy are not all the same.

    It is relatively easy to discredit Biblical cosmology, or to dispute Biblical history using archaeological evidence.

    Any claim in favour of the validity of principles based on the unfalsifiable notion that history has a moral direction is difficult to regard as anything other than mere opinion.

    Sebastian18 saidLiteral belief in Scripture as the unaltered, unerring word of Godhead has always been an exception and not the rule.


    True, but one can go one step further in the deconstruction of scriptural inerrancy and point out that there is no such thing as "literalism." Reading -- even superficial reading -- is an interpretative act. The misappropriation of the Scriptures by conservatives is an interpretation, and necessarily biased.
  • Kazachok

    Posts: 415

    Aug 02, 2013 3:48 PM GMT
    Honestly, I see the Bible as a cultural book of one particular nation (the Jews) like the Eddas, or Havamal. Applying it to everyone in the world is completely inappropriate.
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    Aug 02, 2013 4:02 PM GMT
    jockfever said...The Bible commands parents to cherish their children as blessings and gifts from God. The Bible is pro-child and does not, to my knowledge, contain one example of child abuse. ...

    You forgot about the story in Judges, chapter 11. Jephthah sacrificed his daughter to God, and in Hebrews 11:32 he is praised as a man of faith.
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    Aug 05, 2013 12:24 AM GMT
    jockfever: Until the Jewish Bible and culture, ancient pagan societies gave parents the unconditional right to kill their children.

    Akhuan: I strongly object to this indictment of all pre-judaeochristian cultures...


    The Jews -- almost alone among ancient peoples -- abhorred killing children. The Roman historian Tacitus actually condemned the Jews for their inexplicable opposition to infanticide. "It is a crime among them to kill any newly born infant," he said, adding that they have a strange "passion for propagating their race" (Histories 5.5)

    The Politically Incorrect Guide to the Bible, p 82.

    Akhuan: It is relatively easy to discredit Biblical cosmology, or to dispute Biblical history using archaeological evidence.

    jockfever: It is easy to make vague claims without citing specific examples or evidence.

    Akhuan: Any claim in favour of the validity of principles based on the unfalsifiable notion that history has a moral direction is difficult to regard as anything other than mere opinion.

    jockfever: One must choose whether or not to accept the Bible as the Divinely inspired Word of God. God eliminated the "undecided" option by including about 2500 specific prophecies in the Bible, most of which have been fulfilled. No one but God could have been responsible for so many fulfilled prophecies.

    The Bible predicted the miraculous rebirth of the nation of Israel, that their homeland would once again blossom after the return of the Jews, and that the Jews would never again be forced from their homeland. The odds seemed against Israel even surviving the attacks of 1948, 1967, and 1973, but students of Bible prophecy knew the outcomes ahead of time. The dramatic rise in world-wide anti-Semitism is predicted in the Bible, as is the unholy and fateful alliance between Russia and Iran, which will lead to another attack on Israel. Again, the attackers will be soundly defeated.

    The Bible speaks with Divine clarity about where the world is headed. It is headed into evil madness, culminating with the reign of the antichrist and Armageddon. Being ignorant of Bible prophecy is like flying blind, in my mere opinion.
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    Aug 05, 2013 1:24 AM GMT
    Philibuster said
    jockfever said...The Bible commands parents to cherish their children as blessings and gifts from God. The Bible is pro-child and does not, to my knowledge, contain one example of child abuse. ...

    You forgot about the story in Judges, chapter 11. Jephthah sacrificed his daughter to God, and in Hebrews 11:32 he is praised as a man of faith.


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    Aug 05, 2013 6:48 PM GMT
    jockfever:...The Bible commands parents to cherish their children as blessings and gifts from God. The Bible is pro-child and does not, to my knowledge, contain one example of child abuse...

    Philibuster: You forgot about the story in Judges, chapter 11. Jephthah sacrificed his daughter to God, and in Hebrews 11:32 he is praised as a man of faith.

    jockfever: Child abuse is usually defined as physical, sexual or emotional maltreatment or neglect of a child.

    Killing is usually in a separate category.

    Yes, by making a ridiculous vow, he did accidentally condemn his daughter to death.

    So it would have been accidental, unintended "child abuse" at best.

    God clearly forbid human sacrifices, so if Jephthah did actually sacrifice his daughter, he did what was wrong in the eyes of God.

    This would have been out of character because he was considered to be one of the great men of the Old Testament, as you indicated.

    Some experts believe that rather than actually have his daughter killed, that he offered her as a virgin temple servant.

    I prefer that line of reasoning.

    This sorry episode was clearly an example of making a foolish vow.

    Was it a clear example of child abuse? Reasonable people can disagree.





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    Aug 05, 2013 9:01 PM GMT


    Jockie, how many babies and children were drowned in the Great Flood(Noah)?

    How many babies and children were killed in Sodom and Gomorrah?

    Samuel 15-25

    " Nathan replied, “The Lord has taken away your sin. You are not going to die. 14 But because by doing this you have shown utter contempt for[c] the Lord, the son born to you will die.”

    15 After Nathan had gone home, the Lord struck the child that Uriah’s wife had borne to David, and he became ill. 16 David pleaded with God for the child. He fasted and spent the nights lying in sackcloth[d] on the ground. 17 The elders of his household stood beside him to get him up from the ground, but he refused, and he would not eat any food with them.

    18 On the seventh day the child died. David’s attendants were afraid to tell him that the child was dead, for they thought, “While the child was still living, he wouldn’t listen to us when we spoke to him. How can we now tell him the child is dead? He may do something desperate.”

    19 David noticed that his attendants were whispering among themselves, and he realized the child was dead. “Is the child dead?” he asked.

    “Yes,” they replied, “he is dead.”

    20 Then David got up from the ground. After he had washed, put on lotions and changed his clothes, he went into the house of the Lord and worshiped. Then he went to his own house, and at his request they served him food, and he ate.

    21 His attendants asked him, “Why are you acting this way? While the child was alive, you fasted and wept, but now that the child is dead, you get up and eat!”

    22 He answered, “While the child was still alive, I fasted and wept. I thought, ‘Who knows? The Lord may be gracious to me and let the child live.’ 23 But now that he is dead, why should I go on fasting? Can I bring him back again? I will go to him, but he will not return to me.”

    24 Then David comforted his wife Bathsheba, and he went to her and made love to her. She gave birth to a son, and they named him Solomon. The Lord loved him; 25 and because the Lord loved him, he sent word through Nathan the prophet to name him Jedidiah.[e]"

    Numbers 14:18
    ‘The Lord is slow to anger and abounding in steadfast love, forgiving iniquity and transgression, but he will by no means clear the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, to the third and the fourth generation.’

    If you look you will also find old Testament passages that contradict, firmly and directly, what Numbers says, and casts Samuel's tale into doubt.

    So much for biblical inerrancy. There are beautiful passages and messages in it, and dark horrific places and messages as well.




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    Aug 05, 2013 9:28 PM GMT
    I'm a "preacher's kid" and there are still SO many unanswered questions.

    No one in my spiritual upbringing has given me a good answer about the angels' roles in all of this.

    Why did God bother making humans if He had angels around, glorifying Him and loving Him and serving Him? And they didn't seem to need a sacrificial Son to keep them pure.

    However, they seem to have a choice of sinning, since Lucifer is an angel, and he's got demons who are bad. So... what's up with that? And I guess Satan was tempted by...well, no evil being could tempt Him so he was screwed up initially, yet supposedly God gave him a lot of power. And God gave him power because...He knew Satan would ultimately hurt people???

    Shouldn't perfection seem a little more perfect? This seems like a mess!
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    Aug 05, 2013 9:45 PM GMT
    jockfever saidjockfever:...The Bible commands parents to cherish their children as blessings and gifts from God. The Bible is pro-child and does not, to my knowledge, contain one example of child abuse...

    Philibuster: You forgot about the story in Judges, chapter 11. Jephthah sacrificed his daughter to God, and in Hebrews 11:32 he is praised as a man of faith.

    jockfever: Child abuse is usually defined as physical, sexual or emotional maltreatment or neglect of a child.

    Killing is usually in a separate category.

    Yes, by making a ridiculous vow, he did accidentally condemn his daughter to death.

    So it would have been accidental, unintended "child abuse" at best.

    God clearly forbid human sacrifices, so if Jephthah did actually sacrifice his daughter, he did what was wrong in the eyes of God.

    This would have been out of character because he was considered to be one of the great men of the Old Testament, as you indicated.

    Some experts believe that rather than actually have his daughter killed, that he offered her as a virgin temple servant.

    I prefer that line of reasoning.

    This sorry episode was clearly an example of making a foolish vow.

    Was it a clear example of child abuse? Reasonable people can disagree.



    First of all, God did not forbid human sacrifice. The Law clearly states that anyone devoted to destruction may not be ransomed. They must be put to death, Leviticus 27:29. Japhthah was just obeying the Law. Secondly, those "experts" are engaging in hermeneutics, which is the art of making the Bible say what you want it to say.
  • nperson91

    Posts: 29

    Aug 10, 2013 9:53 PM GMT
    The Bible is what people use to push their views on everyone else. It basically promotes hatred. Anyway, those stories are completely untrue. Sure, we can pull a lot of historical knowledge from the Bible, but certain stories make absolutely no sense. I wrote a blog post about it actually if anyone's interested.

    http://norrisperson.tumblr.com/