Ashamed of my Liberal Friends

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    Jul 14, 2013 4:56 PM GMT
    Before I say what I'm about to say, let me be very clear....I am very much a Liberal. I voted for Obama and am truly a "live and let live" kind of person. But I see a troubling trend among my fellow Progressive friends. We're always bitching at the hateful Republicans for being so mean spirited (and in general, that's a true statement.) They hate gays, they hate minorities and anything that's different from them. But this Martin/Zimmerman case has made me see that Liberals have a side that is just as blood thirsty. Everyone is ready to hang this guy from the highest tree based on nothing but emotion. Yes, a person was killed, and I'd like to think that everyone on both sides are sad about that. But I'm seeing my "Progressive" friends, who I am normally quite proud of - who normally defend the downtrodden, the poor, the misunderstood and the freaks of society - suddenly demanding blood when irrefutable evidence simply isn't there. Yeah, he was shot on the grass instead of the sidewalk. Yes, he probably should have stayed in his car. But we were not there and NONE OF US know exactly what happened that night. If you're going to put someone away for life, THERE CAN BE NO REASONABLE DOUBT. Read that last part again please because so many of you just don't get it. And with every shred of evidence in this case, reasonable doubt was present. Where is your compassion now? Why are so many of you willing to end this guy's life when the evidence is so blurry?

    This post is really not meant to be about the Martin/Zimmerman case, as there are plenty of those threads already, but about the dark side of otherwise compassionate people. I went on about the case in the first paragraph because that is what really drove it home for me. I've been noticing it in a lot of different threads here on many different subjects. I'm also seeing it on Facebook and in real life.

    Although I love that my friends are quick to defend the oppressed and the underprivileged, I'm equally ashamed when they recklessly toss around the race card. And it's not done in the tone of "perhaps there is racism happening here", but it's usually said with complete certainty, as if they are capable of mind reading. If you don't agree, then you're a racist. And yes, people are actually saying that!

    Again, this thread is not intended to be about that trial, but about hypocrisy. I expect this from the rabid Right-Wingers, but not from the side I thought was more compassionate and intelligent.

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    Jul 14, 2013 5:32 PM GMT
    Scruffypup saidWhy are so many of you willing to end this guy's life when the evidence is so blurry?

    Perhaps because he was willing to end a minor's life when the evidence was so blurry?
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    Jul 14, 2013 5:35 PM GMT
    so two wrongs make a right?


    And don't reply that three lefts do!
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    Jul 14, 2013 5:37 PM GMT
    Scruffypup saidBefore I say what I'm about to say, let me be very clear....I am very much a Liberal. I voted for Obama and am truly a "live and let live" kind of person. But I see a troubling trend among my fellow Progressive friends. We're always bitching at the hateful Republicans for being so mean spirited (and in general, that's a true statement.) They hate gays, they hate minorities and anything that's different from them. But this Martin/Zimmerman case has made me see that Liberals have a side that is just as blood thirsty. Everyone is ready to hang this guy from the highest tree based on nothing but emotion. Yes, a person was killed, and I'd like to think that everyone on both sides are sad about that. But I'm seeing my "Progressive" friends, who I am normally quite proud of - who normally defend the downtrodden, the poor, the misunderstood and the freaks of society - suddenly demanding blood when irrefutable evidence simply isn't there. Yeah, he was shot on the grass instead of the sidewalk. Yes, he probably should have stayed in his car. But we were not there and NONE OF US know exactly what happened that night. If you're going to put someone away for life, THERE CAN BE NO REASONABLE DOUBT. Read that last part again please because so many of you just don't get it. And with every shred of evidence in this case, reasonable doubt was present. Where is your compassion now? Why are so many of you willing to end this guy's life when the evidence is so blurry?

    This post is really not meant to be about the Martin/Zimmerman case, as there are plenty of those threads already, but about the dark side of otherwise compassionate people. I went on about the case in the first paragraph because that is what really drove it home for me. I've been noticing it in a lot of different threads here on many different subjects. I'm also seeing it on Facebook and in real life.

    Although I love that my friends are quick to defend the oppressed and the underprivileged, I'm equally ashamed when they recklessly toss around the race card. And it's not done in the tone of "perhaps there is racism happening here", but it's usually said with complete certainty, as if they are capable of mind reading. If you don't agree, then you're a racist. And yes, people are actually saying that!

    Again, this thread is not intended to be about that trial, but about hypocrisy. I expect this from the rabid Right-Wingers, but not from the side I thought was more compassionate and intelligent.




    The beginnings of a conservative. It usually starts with reasonable questions like the above.
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    Jul 14, 2013 5:42 PM GMT
    Scruffypup saidEveryone is ready to hang this guy from the highest tree based on nothing but e̶m̶o̶t̶i̶o̶n the fact he gunned down an unarmed teen.
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    Jul 14, 2013 6:57 PM GMT
    AtlasHarper said
    Scruffypup saidEveryone is ready to hang this guy from the highest tree based on nothing but e̶m̶o̶t̶i̶o̶n the fact he gunned down an unarmed teen.


    You're acting like an idiot. The man had a trial in a court of law and was ACQUITTED. But I guess you have more evidence than the jurors and the judge had, right?
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    Jul 14, 2013 6:59 PM GMT
    Blakes7 said
    Scruffypup saidBefore I say what I'm about to say, let me be very clear....I am very much a Liberal. I voted for Obama and am truly a "live and let live" kind of person. But I see a troubling trend among my fellow Progressive friends. We're always bitching at the hateful Republicans for being so mean spirited (and in general, that's a true statement.) They hate gays, they hate minorities and anything that's different from them. But this Martin/Zimmerman case has made me see that Liberals have a side that is just as blood thirsty. Everyone is ready to hang this guy from the highest tree based on nothing but emotion. Yes, a person was killed, and I'd like to think that everyone on both sides are sad about that. But I'm seeing my "Progressive" friends, who I am normally quite proud of - who normally defend the downtrodden, the poor, the misunderstood and the freaks of society - suddenly demanding blood when irrefutable evidence simply isn't there. Yeah, he was shot on the grass instead of the sidewalk. Yes, he probably should have stayed in his car. But we were not there and NONE OF US know exactly what happened that night. If you're going to put someone away for life, THERE CAN BE NO REASONABLE DOUBT. Read that last part again please because so many of you just don't get it. And with every shred of evidence in this case, reasonable doubt was present. Where is your compassion now? Why are so many of you willing to end this guy's life when the evidence is so blurry?

    This post is really not meant to be about the Martin/Zimmerman case, as there are plenty of those threads already, but about the dark side of otherwise compassionate people. I went on about the case in the first paragraph because that is what really drove it home for me. I've been noticing it in a lot of different threads here on many different subjects. I'm also seeing it on Facebook and in real life.

    Although I love that my friends are quick to defend the oppressed and the underprivileged, I'm equally ashamed when they recklessly toss around the race card. And it's not done in the tone of "perhaps there is racism happening here", but it's usually said with complete certainty, as if they are capable of mind reading. If you don't agree, then you're a racist. And yes, people are actually saying that!

    Again, this thread is not intended to be about that trial, but about hypocrisy. I expect this from the rabid Right-Wingers, but not from the side I thought was more compassionate and intelligent.




    The beginnings of a conservative. It usually starts with reasonable questions like the above.



    Boy are you wrong. I would never vote again rather than vote as a Conservative. Progressives may have some emotional problems but Conservatives are completely insane. And gay Conservatives are bat-shit CRAZY.
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    Jul 14, 2013 7:27 PM GMT
    Scruffypup saidBoy are you wrong. I would never vote again rather than vote as a Conservative. Progressives may have some emotional problems but Conservatives are completely insane. And gay Conservatives are bat-shit CRAZY.

    The term conservative is too broad. Many are conservative in economic or size of government matters, but moderate or even liberal in social issues, tolerance, etc.

    In this situation the role of the media was significant. NBC edited a video to make Zimmerman appear to be racist and they coined the term White-Hispanic to further divide the races.
  • TroyAthlete

    Posts: 4269

    Jul 14, 2013 7:35 PM GMT
    Scruffypup said
    AtlasHarper said
    Scruffypup saidEveryone is ready to hang this guy from the highest tree based on nothing but e̶m̶o̶t̶i̶o̶n the fact he gunned down an unarmed teen.


    You're acting like an idiot. The man had a trial in a court of law and was ACQUITTED. But I guess you have more evidence than the jurors and the judge had, right?


    You also think OJ Simpson was innocent? Or that juries get it right every time?

    There isn't any reasonable doubt in this case, for people who can reason. George Zimmerman wasn't being straddled, pinned down, punched in the face, but yet managed to draw his gun from a holster on his rear (while pinned?), bring it around and aim it at the chest (since he was pinned and being straddled he reached -- what? -- up? around? is he double jointed? was Trayvon Martin a ghost who could be reached through?), and fire while yelling loudly and clearly for help and being punched in the face and having his head slammed into the ground or something.

    Not all doubt is reasonable. NONE OF US were at Auschwitz, but common sense dictates that the Holocaust happened. You don't have to be everywhere at once to understand that 1 + 1 = 2. Verdicts are not above criticism -- progressives are allowed to criticize the Zimmerman verdict as they see fit. *shrug*

    As many have said, the most disgusting thing about this whole affair is the concerted effort by a certain element to rob Trayvon Martin of his right to be afraid. And that progressives will not stand for injustice demonstrates that liberals still get it. Which is amazing.
  • kenanna

    Posts: 77

    Jul 14, 2013 10:16 PM GMT
    Scruffypup saidBefore I say what I'm about to say, let me be very clear....I am very much a Liberal. I voted for Obama and am truly a "live and let live" kind of person. But I see a troubling trend among my fellow Progressive friends. We're always bitching at the hateful Republicans for being so mean spirited (and in general, that's a true statement.) They hate gays, they hate minorities and anything that's different from them. But this Martin/Zimmerman case has made me see that Liberals have a side that is just as blood thirsty. Everyone is ready to hang this guy from the highest tree based on nothing but emotion. Yes, a person was killed, and I'd like to think that everyone on both sides are sad about that. But I'm seeing my "Progressive" friends, who I am normally quite proud of - who normally defend the downtrodden, the poor, the misunderstood and the freaks of society - suddenly demanding blood when irrefutable evidence simply isn't there. Yeah, he was shot on the grass instead of the sidewalk. Yes, he probably should have stayed in his car. But we were not there and NONE OF US know exactly what happened that night. If you're going to put someone away for life, THERE CAN BE NO REASONABLE DOUBT. Read that last part again please because so many of you just don't get it. And with every shred of evidence in this case, reasonable doubt was present. Where is your compassion now? Why are so many of you willing to end this guy's life when the evidence is so blurry?

    This post is really not meant to be about the Martin/Zimmerman case, as there are plenty of those threads already, but about the dark side of otherwise compassionate people. I went on about the case in the first paragraph because that is what really drove it home for me. I've been noticing it in a lot of different threads here on many different subjects. I'm also seeing it on Facebook and in real life.

    Although I love that my friends are quick to defend the oppressed and the underprivileged, I'm equally ashamed when they recklessly toss around the race card. And it's not done in the tone of "perhaps there is racism happening here", but it's usually said with complete certainty, as if they are capable of mind reading. If you don't agree, then you're a racist. And yes, people are actually saying that!

    Again, this thread is not intended to be about that trial, but about hypocrisy. I expect this from the rabid Right-Wingers, but not from the side I thought was more compassionate and intelligent.



    Exactly, scruffy. I'm all for Martin, but again our justice system isn't a gamble. None of us were there and even witnesses have conflicting accounts. There are a lot of things that went wrong in the beginning with Zimmerman, but we just can't be sure if he murdered/ manslaughtered Martin, unless we want to do it in the chinese way, with is "guilty until proven innocent."

    And so if you respect the decision of the court, you'd just leave it as it is. But of cuz, that doesn't mean we should do nothing about it to prevent this from happening again. Racial profiling simply has to stop.
  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 19136

    Jul 14, 2013 10:36 PM GMT
    TroyAthlete said
    There isn't any reasonable doubt in this case, for people who can reason.


    You can shout that from the rooftops from now till eternity, but it's not going to make it true. There was "Reasonable Doubt", hence the acquittal. By virtually ALL accounts, the jury worked hard to render a fair and just verdict -- and they did according to the law.
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    Jul 14, 2013 10:49 PM GMT
    Scruffypup said
    AtlasHarper said
    Scruffypup saidEveryone is ready to hang this guy from the highest tree based on nothing but e̶m̶o̶t̶i̶o̶n the fact he gunned down an unarmed teen.


    You're acting like an idiot. The man had a trial in a court of law and was ACQUITTED. But I guess you have more evidence than the jurors and the judge had, right?


    Haha Funny how you resort to name calling once someone sheds light on the truth. Let me help you out, because nothing I said portrays me as acting like an idiot. You need to grow up.

    707px-Graham%27s_Hierarchy_of_Disagreeme

    Follow this chart when you decide to refute someone's post, then you won't come off as so immature, petty, over dramatic, and over emotional when someone disagrees with you or proves you wrong.

    In addition, I never said anything about the trial or the evidence or whether GZ was innocent or guilty. I simply corrected your rash statement. People are not ready to hurt GZ because they are upset, they are ready to hurt him because of what he did, and they want Justice.

    Learn proper decorum in a forum or attend a debate class. Leave the highschool shit to the birds.
  • TroyAthlete

    Posts: 4269

    Jul 14, 2013 10:55 PM GMT
    CuriousJockAZ said
    TroyAthlete said
    There isn't any reasonable doubt in this case, for people who can reason.


    You can shout that from the rooftops from now till eternity, but it's not going to make it true. There was "Reasonable Doubt", hence the acquittal. By virtually ALL accounts, the jury worked hard to render a fair and just verdict -- and they did according to the law.


    ALL accounts except the millions and millions and millions and millions of people who disagree with the verdict. icon_rolleyes.gif

    There was no "reasonable" doubt in this case just like there was no "reasonable" doubt in the Anthony and Simpson cases -- although those were demonstrably worse verdicts. Juries mess up. nbd
  • Webster666

    Posts: 9217

    Jul 14, 2013 10:55 PM GMT
    Put yourself in Trayvon Martin's place, walking down the street, minding your own business, not breaking any laws, when you are suddenly accosted by a total stranger.

    --Trayvon Martin is dead because Zimmerman volunteered to play Barney Fife.
    --Zimmerman wasn't qualified to be a policeman, and he wasn't qualified to be a "neighborhood watch" man.
    --Zimmerman interfered with Trayvon Martin's RIGHT to walk down the street, mind his own business, and be let alone.
    --Zimmerman chose to disregard the advice given to him by 9-1-1.

    I'm not making this up.
    On NPR, Zimmerman's brother said that Trayvon Martin was armed ............... with a sidewalk !

    I am proud to be a screaming liberal San Francisco Democrat who sincerely hopes that Zimmerman gets what's coming to him.
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    Jul 14, 2013 10:57 PM GMT
    Aristoshark said
    Blakes7 saidThe beginnings of a conservative. It usually starts with reasonable questions like the above.

    There is nothing reasonable about being a conservative.
    Nothing honorable, either.
    Although being a conservative is quite easy. All you have to do is give in to your basest insticts: tribalism, hatred, and greed.

    +100
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    Jul 15, 2013 12:15 AM GMT
    Webster666 said

    I am proud to be a screaming liberal San Francisco Democrat who sincerely hopes that Zimmerman gets what's coming to him.


    Anyone here have even a little disagreement with that statement?
  • TheBizMan

    Posts: 4091

    Jul 15, 2013 12:17 AM GMT
    So become a republican/conservative

    You'll be MUCH better officon_rolleyes.gif
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Jul 15, 2013 12:32 AM GMT
    Webster666 saidPut yourself in Trayvon Martin's place, walking down the street, minding your own business, not breaking any laws, when you are suddenly accosted by a total stranger.

    --Trayvon Martin is dead because Zimmerman volunteered to play Barney Fife.
    --Zimmerman wasn't qualified to be a policeman, and he wasn't qualified to be a "neighborhood watch" man.
    --Zimmerman interfered with Trayvon Martin's RIGHT to walk down the street, mind his own business, and be let alone.
    --Zimmerman chose to disregard the advice given to him by 9-1-1.

    I'm not making this up.
    On NPR, Zimmerman's brother said that Trayvon Martin was armed ............... with a sidewalk !

    I am proud to be a screaming liberal San Francisco Democrat who sincerely hopes that Zimmerman gets what's coming to him.

    Never bring a sidewalk to a gunfight!
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    Jul 15, 2013 1:00 AM GMT
    As a moderate I'm ashamed of all of you. icon_smile.gif
  • creature

    Posts: 5197

    Jul 15, 2013 1:03 AM GMT
    Liberals are people. News at 11.
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    Jul 15, 2013 1:11 AM GMT
    Webster666 saidPut yourself in Trayvon Martin's place, walking down the street, minding your own business, not breaking any laws, when you are suddenly accosted by a total stranger. SPECULATION! Were you there to see who started this physical altercation? I didn't think so. So why are you making definite statements like this?

    --Trayvon Martin is dead because Zimmerman volunteered to play Barney Fife. Again SPECULATION. You don't know who attacked who first.
    --Zimmerman wasn't qualified to be a policeman, and he wasn't qualified to be a "neighborhood watch" man. Ummm, there is no training course or certificate to be on a neighborhood watch program. If you live in the neighborhood and own a car and are willing to donate your time, you're on.
    --Zimmerman interfered with Trayvon Martin's RIGHT to walk down the street, mind his own business, and be let alone. This is exhausting - SPECULATION. Besides, it's obvious from the 911 transcript that the reason Zimmerman called in was because Martin was acting peculiar. How many murderers do you know who call 911 before they commit the murder?
    --Zimmerman chose to disregard the advice given to him by 9-1-1. He was not given any "advice." Please read the transcript before repeating lies that you've heard. Transcripts don't lie.

    I'm not making this up.
    On NPR, Zimmerman's brother said that Trayvon Martin was armed ............... with a sidewalk ! Meaning he bashed Zimmerman's head into the sidewalk. What's so unbelievable about that statement?

    I am proud to be a screaming liberal San Francisco Democrat who sincerely hopes that Zimmerman gets what's coming to him. And there's that lack of compassion I was talking about. You're out for blood even though there is ZERO evidence this was not self defense.
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Jul 15, 2013 1:18 AM GMT
    Scruffypup said
    Webster666 saidPut yourself in Trayvon Martin's place, walking down the street, minding your own business, not breaking any laws, when you are suddenly accosted by a total stranger. SPECULATION! Were you there to see who started this physical altercation? I didn't think so. So why are you making definite statements like this?

    --Trayvon Martin is dead because Zimmerman volunteered to play Barney Fife. Again SPECULATION. You don't know who attacked who first.
    --Zimmerman wasn't qualified to be a policeman, and he wasn't qualified to be a "neighborhood watch" man. Ummm, there is no training course or certificate to be on a neighborhood watch program. If you live in the neighborhood and own a car and are willing to donate your time, you're on.
    --Zimmerman interfered with Trayvon Martin's RIGHT to walk down the street, mind his own business, and be let alone. This is exhausting - SPECULATION. Besides, it's obvious from the 911 transcript that the reason Zimmerman called in was because Martin was acting peculiar. How many murderers do you know who call 911 before they commit the murder?
    --Zimmerman chose to disregard the advice given to him by 9-1-1. He was not given any "advice." Please read the transcript before repeating lies that you've heard. Transcripts don't lie.

    I'm not making this up.
    On NPR, Zimmerman's brother said that Trayvon Martin was armed ............... with a sidewalk ! Meaning he bashed Zimmerman's head into the sidewalk. What's so unbelievable about that statement?

    I am proud to be a screaming liberal San Francisco Democrat who sincerely hopes that Zimmerman gets what's coming to him. And there's that lack of compassion I was talking about. You're out for blood even though there is ZERO evidence this was not self defense.

    Where's your compassion for Trayvon Martin? I just read the 911 Transcript you posted. It sounds like Trayvon saw someone staring at him and ran away, only to be chased. The fact is, Zimmerman was wrong about him. Trayvon was unarmed, and he wasn't committing any crimes. He likely got scared because he was being watched, then pursued. He ended up dead, because Zimmerman was an inept neighborhood watch. Where is your compassion for the victim?
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    Jul 15, 2013 1:31 AM GMT
    Scruffypup said
    --Zimmerman chose to disregard the advice given to him by 9-1-1. He was not given any "advice." Please read the transcript before repeating lies that you've heard. Transcripts don't lie.


    Well, they do if they are in the hands of NBC News. icon_wink.gif

  • Webster666

    Posts: 9217

    Jul 15, 2013 1:44 AM GMT
    --Zimmerman chose to disregard the advice given to him by 9-1-1. He was not given any "advice." Please read the transcript before repeating lies that you've heard. Transcripts don't lie.
    ___________________________________________________

    No, YOU read the transcript.


    9-1-1 Dispatcher: Are you following him ?
    Zimmerman: Yeah.
    9-1-1 Dispatcher: Ok, we don't need you to do that.


    Did Zimmerman disregard that advice ?
    Absolutely.
  • Webster666

    Posts: 9217

    Jul 15, 2013 2:42 AM GMT
    SCRUFFYPUP,
    I'm surprised you're not out helping O.J. Simpson find the "real killers" of Ron Goldman and Nichole Brown Simpson. After all, there were no witnesses to those murders, either.