It is about self respect

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Nov 07, 2008 5:11 PM GMT
    The election is over. Obama will be President in January. The nightmare of Bush & Co. is coming to an end. That is all good. President elect Obama wanted our votes, he wanted our money, as did many Democrats. and a few Republicans, across the country. They talked about inclusiveness, about being one people, one country, putting aside the divisions of the past.
    The question now is, are GLBTQ-Americans to be equal citizens with the other 300 million Americans, or are we just useful tools, for our votes and our money? McCain and the Republican Party answered that question clearly, it was "NO"! Obama & Biden also answered that question, and they too said "No". For all the soothing words, for all the rainbow flag Obama buttons, for all the meetings with gay and lesbians, they left no doubt that they do not expect us to have equal civil rights with our fellow citizens. There is to be no marriage rights, a simple basic human right, for us.
    If California or Arizona, or any state wanted to enshrine discrimination in its constitution, and if that discrimination was aimed at African-Americans, if it was against Jewish-Americans, what do you think he would have done? Would he have traveled there and spoken our against it, time and time again? Would he have made it a campaign point?
    Both Obama and Biden made it clear that they were opposed to equal marriage rights. We are useful when when our money, when our votes are wanted, but equal under the law? No. After all, it would cost them votes in many parts of the country. We are not worth that.
    I am old enough to remember when southern white politicians went to African-American communities asking for their votes, but only to get themselves into office, not to bring about justice and equality for all regardless of their race.
    Do we really have so little self respect to allow Obama, or anyone, to use us that way? In my, sometimes not so humble, opinion, no politician who does not pledge full equal legal rights for me, will get my vote, or my money. I will vote for a minor party, write in a name, or leave that office blank on my ballot.
    If we do not stand up for ourselves and demand equality, then why should they, or anyone?
  • EricLA

    Posts: 3461

    Nov 07, 2008 8:03 PM GMT
    Well, it's not like the lgbt community all voted for Obama. About twenty-five percent voted for McCain.

    Wow. I'd really like to know more about who these people are.

    Eric
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Nov 07, 2008 8:11 PM GMT
    OutdoorMutt saidThe election is over. Obama will be President in January. The nightmare of Bush & Co. is coming to an end. That is all good. President elect Obama wanted our votes, he wanted our money, as did many Democrats. and a few Republicans, across the country. They talked about inclusiveness, about being one people, one country, putting aside the divisions of the past.
    The question now is, are GLBTQ-Americans to be equal citizens with the other 300 million Americans, or are we just useful tools, for our votes and our money? McCain and the Republican Party answered that question clearly, it was "NO"! Obama & Biden also answered that question, and they too said "No". For all the soothing words, for all the rainbow flag Obama buttons, for all the meetings with gay and lesbians, they left no doubt that they do not expect us to have equal civil rights with our fellow citizens. There is to be no marriage rights, a simple basic human right, for us.
    If California or Arizona, or any state wanted to enshrine discrimination in its constitution, and if that discrimination was aimed at African-Americans, if it was against Jewish-Americans, what do you think he would have done? Would he have traveled there and spoken our against it, time and time again? Would he have made it a campaign point?
    Both Obama and Biden made it clear that they were opposed to equal marriage rights. We are useful when when our money, when our votes are wanted, but equal under the law? No. After all, it would cost them votes in many parts of the country. We are not worth that.
    I am old enough to remember when southern white politicians went to African-American communities asking for their votes, but only to get themselves into office, not to bring about justice and equality for all regardless of their race.
    Do we really have so little self respect to allow Obama, or anyone, to use us that way? In my, sometimes not so humble, opinion, no politician who does not pledge full equal legal rights for me, will get my vote, or my money. I will vote for a minor party, write in a name, or leave that office blank on my ballot.
    If we do not stand up for ourselves and demand equality, then why should they, or anyone?


    I think it is a little early to be accusing Obama of stabbing us in the back. Sure, he said the politically expedient answer in debates, and in turn got a few conservatives and whole lot of centrists to help elect him. It bothered me a little, but I blame the electorate and its current political climate, not Obama. Bottom line is he effectively walked a fine line and as a result we got the second best ally in the whole race for Prez (Kucinich was our #1 ally).

    I have no doubt that we will get full marriage rights under his administration. I expect a "speech on homophobia" similar to his watershed speech on race at some point. He was elected to, among other things, help solve our most divisive problems. Lets see him work a few hours at his new job before administering a negative performance evaluation. If there's anything you should have learned these past few months, it is the value of maintaining hope.

    Other than that, I'm all for a rallying cry, so in this aspect, I appreciate your post. Nobody, including Obama, is going to help us if we aren't helping ourselves. I agree that the biggest reason why we don't have marriage rights is because deep down too many of us still feel like we don't deserve it. Too many of us still think we're the abominations that the opposition paints us as. Look at all the faceless profiles. Look at all the guys claiming to be "normal" or only wanting to connect with "normal" acting guys. Look how often guys flout "str8 acting" as if it were some kind of virtue. Again, we have to stop listening to the other voices from our individual past and start listening to our own homosexual voices. If that last phrase made you a bit squeamish, then I am talking to YOU.
  • GQjock

    Posts: 11649

    Nov 07, 2008 8:48 PM GMT
    I'm sorry that you're disappointed that Barack Obama is not wearing gold lame' hot pants and waving a rainbow flag while he has a silver whistle in his mouth marching down Pennsylvania Ave
    Is he a friend of the Gay Community ?
    Yes he is
    But he's not going to be stepping out and handing us anything on a silver platter right now either
    Let him place court justices who will be fair minded and listen to cases we present in the future
    Let him clean out the justice dept who will actually go after hate crimes
    Let him allow the IRS to search for Churches that politicize their congregations

    He will do these things
    but give the guy a chance
  • Southern_Draw...

    Posts: 119

    Nov 07, 2008 9:04 PM GMT
    Be patient. Obama will get things moving forward in the gay community. Give him time and change will occur slowly. He could've lost the election by pledging full support of gay marriage. Sometimes you can get more done when you "walk softly" instead of making a lot of noise.
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    Nov 07, 2008 9:27 PM GMT
    I was dismayed by Obama's comments. But remember - politics is a process. The remarks were made by a CANDIDATE seeking office on the eve of the election - NOT the President-elect. Frankly, I prefer to know Obama's opposite stand on the issue vs.him pacifying the GLBT masses with happy-talk and then waffling in office when the national legislative debate heats up. (Remember how 'gays in the military" turned into loathsome DADT?)

    We must give Obama time to get organized. We must help push Democratic party initiatives for restoring peace and prosperity as well as social policy developments. We can "stand up for ourselves" much more effectively with open lines of communication. Our new Democratic leaders are not the enemy.

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Nov 07, 2008 10:08 PM GMT
    I understand if you do not agree with my post, that is fine, but please do not put words in my mouth. I did not accuse Obama of stabbing us in the back, those were not my words. Nor did I state that I was "disappointed that Barack Obama is not wearing gold lame' hot pants and waving a rainbow flag while he has a silver whistle in his mouth marching down Pennsylvania Ave". I said nothing even close to that as you well know.
    Obama & Biden were clear, before the election, that they do not support full equal rights for gay people. They did not hide that fact or run away from it. They took that position for either political reasons, or worse, that they really believe that we are not entitled to equal rights. They asked for our votes, they asked for our money, and still clearly said that we are not entitled to equal rights. You can vote for anyone you want. You can give money to support any candidate you wish. I am not attempting to tell anyone here what to do or how to vote. However, if a candidate is not willing to extend to me the exact same rights as every other citizen, no more and no less, then he or she has not earned my money or my vote. I have more self respect than that.
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    Nov 07, 2008 10:09 PM GMT
    EricLA saidWell, it's not like the lgbt community all voted for Obama. About twenty-five percent voted for McCain.

    Wow. I'd really like to know more about who these people are.

    Eric



    One of them lives across the hall from me, comes from money, republican family, relatives in the military.

    Idolizes Palin, that one i'll never get
  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 19138

    Nov 07, 2008 10:21 PM GMT
    Gay Republicans are just normal people who just happen to have different priorities and motivating factors that make them vote for one candidate over the other. I can only speak for myself, but I voted for McCain for a variety of reasons, none of them having the least bit to do with any gay issues. Those issues just aren't all that important to me and I have a right as an American to decide which issues carry more weight to me personally in my own life.

    That being said, it took me about 30 seconds to be sad about McCain losing, and I'm very happy for Obama and look forward to seeing how he might change this country -- and the world -- for the better.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Nov 07, 2008 10:25 PM GMT
    Three representatives of an interest group had a meeting with FDR once to get him to agree to a particular priority of theirs.

    When the meeting was done, FDR said, "Fine, you're right, I agree with you. Now go out there and bring pressure on me to do it."
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    Nov 07, 2008 10:32 PM GMT
    I am aware of that FDR meeting, and thought about it also. He was telling them to change public opinion, so that he would be politically forced to do what he already knew should be done.
    That is certainly one view. and not completely invalid. Another view is that when they know, that when it comes to basic human rights, they either earn my vote and money or live to learn without. If the gay community stuck together (something I really doubt would ever happen) then that would be an incentive for them to do what they already know (or should know) is right.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Nov 08, 2008 12:44 AM GMT
    GQjock saidI'm sorry that you're disappointed that Barack Obama is not wearing gold lame' hot pants and waving a rainbow flag while he has a silver whistle in his mouth marching down Pennsylvania Ave

    I totally know what I'm gonna wear for this next Pride now.

    CuriousJockAZ saidGay Republicans are just normal people

    Too easy.icon_wink.gificon_razz.gif
  • MotorBrett

    Posts: 145

    Nov 08, 2008 12:54 AM GMT
    Obama spoke against Prop 8, actually.

    And recognized gays as equals in his acceptance speech.

    If anyone actually reads or listens...
  • joggerva

    Posts: 731

    Nov 08, 2008 1:41 AM GMT
    MotorBrett saidObama spoke against Prop 8, actually.

    And recognized gays as equals in his acceptance speech.

    If anyone actually reads or listens...


    As excited as I am for Obama, I have to admit I'm already hearing the cynical voices in the back of my head. Obama said he disagreed with prop 8, but he prefaced it with that "not that I agree with gay marriage" nonsense that totally dilutes his stance. He recognized gays in his acceptance speech, sure, but recognition and advocation are two very different things...

    Okay, enough with the cynicism. GO-BA-MA! GO-BA-MA! Seriously, I will give the man a chance to live up to his promises of building bridges and supporting our community. I wouldn't have donated my hard-earned money and weekends going door-to-door for him if I didn't truly believe he'll stand up for us.
  • tailgaytor

    Posts: 41

    Nov 08, 2008 2:20 AM GMT
    Coming out for gay marriage during the campaign would have been political suicide for Obama. We all know that. He won't be taking on that battle in the first hundred days he's in office either. The two hot issues for most Americans are the economy and the war. Give him a chance to address those two.

    He will let the Proposition 8 business play itself out and see what the courts do with it. That's what he must do so the far right doesn't have things to use against him when he takes office.

    What gay issue will he tackle first? More than likely it will be the DADT of the military. Even my conservative mother who loved Sarah Palin said it is time for that to come to an end. More people's minds are open to something that.


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    Nov 08, 2008 3:30 AM GMT
    EricLA saidWell, it's not like the lgbt community all voted for Obama. About twenty-five percent voted for McCain.

    Wow. I'd really like to know more about who these people are.

    Eric


    Why what ever for? *innocent curiosity*

    If I told you I did, what then?

    Tsk tsk.


    Bahhhhhh.

    Yeah! If my assumption is correct I'm calling you a sheep, because you sure as hell ain't trying to approach the situation in any way dissimilar to your wool clad pals, or any other muttonhead grasping at conventions of social segregation. *


    *The poster is not prepared in anyway to justify, provide supporting facts, defend or otherwise consent to any exchange of obligatory prose and does not take responsibility for anything he may post now or in the not quite immediate future.