On the road to a more inclusive society, really?

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    Jul 25, 2013 8:05 AM GMT
    I do love that we are supposedly (well in my country and Europe/ Canada anyway not sure about the US) moving towards a more inclusive society. Yet at the same time more people are suffering road rage and the like. More kids are being bullied at school and more people just cant seem to cope. Racism is getting out of hand and a general lack of empathy and understanding seems to prevail.
    So why are so many people in our inclusive society feeling left out or marginalised, angry and unsympathetic towards their fellow human beings?
  • Destinharbor

    Posts: 4433

    Jul 25, 2013 4:14 PM GMT
    I think tribalism is on the rise. I protect me and mine mind-set. I The rich protect their insulation. The poor glorify their culture. The crazy religious clan together. Immigrates protect the culture they just abandoned because it didn't work. The "inclusive" movement towards us is mainly because we have started coming out and suddenly we have become family to most everyone. But even we are protective of our "gay family" and get bent out of shape if any element is criticized.
  • mitshoo

    Posts: 76

    Jul 25, 2013 4:43 PM GMT
    Couldn't disagree with you more, Destinharbor. Tribalism is not on the rise. On the contrary, I think communities are breaking down and people are becoming more and more individualistic by the day, feeling no sense of obligation to anyone around them. Everyone is so afraid to have their own unique group for fear of not being "inclusive". But that's ridiculous. You can't be friends with everyone on the planet. You can be friendly toward people you meet, and respectful of your differences, but at the end of the day you have to have chosen your own group, and found your own place, and respect that others might live differently.

    And that's okay. It's healthy to have a place to belong. I don't, for the most part, mind gay culture for example (or at least a gay community). Sometimes I just want to be around other guys who get it. The whole "inclusiveness" movement is well-intended, but ultimately sociologically impossible. It thinks it calls for an inclusion of all groups, but it actually calls for all groups to become one group and for the followers to identify with more and more superficial similarities and to not have anything of their own. It calls for the elimination of groups. But I think that's sad. I don't think that a mature response to difference is this inclusiveness movement, but rather letting other groups have their sovereignty.

    Keep in mind, this is coming from an anthropologist who revels in learning about others different from me.
  • mitshoo

    Posts: 76

    Jul 25, 2013 4:50 PM GMT
    To answer the OP's question though: road rage most likely comes from not being able to see other people's face well, so we don't have the ability to non-verbally communicate as we evolved to do. My friend once told me something to this effect, and about how you can be really mad at someone, but then once you see their face through the window, and they have this sorry look on their face and want you to know it, then you calm down and think "at least they know what they did was bad." But when we don't see that they are less real of a person to us and more an obstacle.

    Bullying is the result of not a lot of things, not least of which is not teaching our kids how to handle their emotions.

    Racism is the result of (among other things) scapegoating and is the worst when people are feeling financially insecure and want to blame their country's problems on an easy target rather than admitting structural deficiencies. I could look up the research on that if you want. I learned about it from various classes.
  • AMoonHawk

    Posts: 11406

    Jul 25, 2013 5:04 PM GMT
    Because some of my fellow human beings are worse than animals.
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    Jul 25, 2013 5:04 PM GMT
    Destinharbor saidI think tribalism is on the rise. I protect me and mine mind-set. I The rich protect their insulation. The poor glorify their culture. The crazy religious clan together. Immigrates protect the culture they just abandoned because it didn't work. The "inclusive" movement towards us is mainly because we have started coming out and suddenly we have become family to most everyone. But even we are protective of our "gay family" and get bent out of shape if any element is criticized.


    well put.
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    Jul 25, 2013 5:14 PM GMT
    AMoonHawk saidBecause some of my fellow human beings are worse than animals.


    I'd venture to say most. There's just a thin veneer of civility masking our basest instincts and behaviors.
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    Jul 25, 2013 5:18 PM GMT
    My guess is because of less emphasis on face-to-face social skills and more and more time spent behind computer terminals and cell phones and ipods, etc, etc...icon_neutral.gif
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    Jul 25, 2013 5:27 PM GMT
    do they still make ipods?
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    Jul 25, 2013 5:47 PM GMT
    mitshoo saidBullying is the result of not a lot of things, not least of which is not teaching our kids how to handle their emotions.


    1240929974_lucky-back-flip-over-kid.gif
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    Jul 25, 2013 11:42 PM GMT
    boomerangOz saidI do love that we are supposedly (well in my country and Europe/ Canada anyway not sure about the US) moving towards a more inclusive society.
    I understand your message, but I saw something different while visiting in Australia. The Aborigines were so marginalized to the point of being invisible. Granted, the visit was only two weeks, but I saw no visual evidence of the Aborigines participating in the life of the country. The only time they appeared out of the woodwork was to be begging on the street or giving "cultural" performances for the tourists. I know there is more depth than I experienced and hope to see it on the next visit.

    A similar post-colonial fasçade was seen with the indigenous Quechua people of Peru. Beggars jammed the streets of the tourist town of Cusco, but they seemed to be absent from life in the capitol, Lima.

    This is a global phenomenon where colonized people are not part of the mainstream decades after the end of colonial rule. In both cases cited above, premature aging was rampant due to a lack of access to quality health care. This is not moving toward a more inclusive society.
  • Rhi_Bran

    Posts: 904

    Jul 26, 2013 1:47 AM GMT
    The world will stop seeming so horrible a place once you decide to carry on and render kindness wherever and whenever possible, despite knowing how depraved things can be.

    You can't change the world. But you can change you.
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    Jul 26, 2013 1:53 AM GMT
    oh people please stop whining about how the times are getting worst. They are not. Just look a little back in history and see how difficult people had it back then. 60 years ago American was still racially divided and homosexuality was illegal (yes illegal).
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Jul 26, 2013 1:59 AM GMT
    Soooo, glitter is like tribal war paint for gay boys??? I'm diggin it.icon_cool.gif
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    Jul 26, 2013 1:59 AM GMT
    CALIKE saidoh people please stop whining about how the times are getting worst. They are not. Just look a little back in history and see how difficult people had it back then. 60 years ago American was still racially divided and homosexuality was illegal (yes illegal).


    In the "Good Ol Days, When Times were Bad!" Old Dolly Parton Song that paints a great picture of life in the 1940's for many Americans! We are so fuck'n spoiled now! Can you imagine havin' to keep a garden for food, slaughter your own animals or go down to a well or spring everyday to draw water for drink'n and wash'n. My Papaw had to do this as a kid.
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    Jul 26, 2013 2:04 AM GMT
    Destinharbor saidI think tribalism is on the rise. I protect me and mine mind-set. I The rich protect their insulation. The poor glorify their culture. The crazy religious clan together. Immigrates protect the culture they just abandoned because it didn't work. The "inclusive" movement towards us is mainly because we have started coming out and suddenly we have become family to most everyone. But even we are protective of our "gay family" and get bent out of shape if any element is criticized.


    I agree with Destinharbor. Well stated.
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    Jul 26, 2013 2:40 AM GMT
    CALIKE saidoh people please stop whining about how the times are getting worst. They are not. Just look a little back in history and see how difficult people had it back then. 60 years ago American was still racially divided and homosexuality was illegal (yes illegal).


    Correct. And not just illegal but officially categorized as a personality disorder until I was in high school circa 1974ish. That made coming out fun in college.
    _______________________

    America not inclusive? Anyone ever hear of Ellis Island? Out of frying pan and into the melting pot. This culture was built on being inclusive. Sure there's been issues along the way but this still is the great experiment.

    http://www.livescience.com/6358-country-immigrants.html
    Ever since Homo sapiens first wandered out of Africa, the story of humanity has been one of constant migration. Today is no different – 213 million people leave their countries every year, according to U.N. statistics. Just ten countries absorb the majority of that migration, with the U.S. leading the pack by a wide margin....

    ...the U.S. account for 20 percent of the entire planet’s immigration, according to the U.N. Department of Economic and Social Affairs. Russia and Germany, two more countries with top 10 economies, follow behind the U.S. with about 5 percent of the world’s immigrants each....


    No idea what road rage has to do with not being inclusive. I agree with the posters who mentioned lack of visual communication. But I don't see that as an issue of either being more independent nor of so-called tribalism. But by all means, get into what myth making you want to be expressive of reality but I find that clouds it.

    I absolutely view a world improving with less suffering than ever before. Media puts it more in your face so it looks like more. Also, with growing populations--which wouldn't occur without better health, without proper shelter, without enough food--the suffering might look like more because with more people there will be more instances, but I'll bet that if you look at that proportionally by population, you'll find suffering on the decrease. I believe there are more good people born into the world than bad ones.
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    Jul 26, 2013 2:59 AM GMT
    In general (with some localized exceptions) things are getting better. However, we are perhaps seeing a very small minority that is more vocal in their hatred than they were a short while above (the Tea Party in the USA comes to mind, as does Golden Dawn in Greece, and the BNP in the UK). I think that this comes largely from people reacting to the fact that there lives aren't so great (real wages haven't significantly risen for 30 years, unemployment is currently quite high, many people are struggling to make ends meet etc.) and not hearing many solutions to this other than to make a scapegoat of, for example, immigrants. It is very important to understand why people react the way that they do and to offer them alternatives ways of looking at the world. I certainly have some suggestions I can give and I suggest that if you are concerned then you try to do some reading and see what you can understand about the root causes of people's discontents.

    As for the general lack of empathy, I think that is quite true. It's been part of a cultural agenda for the last 30 years (epitomized by Reagan and Thatcher) that we should only care about ourselves. . Additionally, I think many of us are becoming more and more isolated--we're told that we can consume our way to happiness and should spend our nights in front of the TV or computer rather than making meaningful personal connections with other people. And before you mention social media, ask yourself how many of your Facebook "friends" are really friends and not just acquaintances.
  • mitshoo

    Posts: 76

    Jul 26, 2013 3:02 AM GMT
    theantijock said
    mitshoo saidBullying is the result of not a lot of things, not least of which is not teaching our kids how to handle their emotions.


    1240929974_lucky-back-flip-over-kid.gif


    Oops. I meant to say, "Bullying is the result of a lot of things, not the least of which is that we don't teach our kids how to handle their emotions." Good catch! Sometimes things make sense in your head and they don't when you put them down.
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    Jul 26, 2013 3:11 AM GMT
    mitshoo saidOops. I meant to say, "Bullying is the result of a lot of things, not the least of which is that we don't teach our kids how to handle their emotions." Good catch! Sometimes things make sense in your head and they don't when you put them down.


    Better! I sometimes use double negatives myself when they seem particularly expressive but I'd never seen a triple before.
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    Jul 26, 2013 6:46 AM GMT
    AstroGeek saidIn general (with some localized exceptions) things are getting better. However, we are perhaps seeing a very small minority that is more vocal in their hatred than they were a short while above (the Tea Party in the USA comes to mind, as does Golden Dawn in Greece, and the BNP in the UK). I think that this comes largely from people reacting to the fact that there lives aren't so great (real wages haven't significantly risen for 30 years, unemployment is currently quite high, many people are struggling to make ends meet etc.) and not hearing many solutions to this other than to make a scapegoat of, for example, immigrants. It is very important to understand why people react the way that they do and to offer them alternatives ways of looking at the world. I certainly have some suggestions I can give and I suggest that if you are concerned then you try to do some reading and see what you can understand about the root causes of people's discontents.

    As for the general lack of empathy, I think that is quite true. It's been part of a cultural agenda for the last 30 years (epitomized by Reagan and Thatcher) that we should only care about ourselves. . Additionally, I think many of us are becoming more and more isolated--we're told that we can consume our way to happiness and should spend our nights in front of the TV or computer rather than making meaningful personal connections with other people. And before you mention social media, ask yourself how many of your Facebook "friends" are really friends and not just acquaintances.


    Uh-huh. Like the members of #Occupy, who dump buckets of urine and feces all over the place, destroy private and public property, feel perfectly justified in disrupting the lives of others, all while raping and robbing from one another.

    I've seen the future of your ideology at Zucotti Park. No thanks.
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    Jul 26, 2013 8:26 AM GMT
    Thanks guys
    I had to go out of town and being in the arse end of the world last night I had no internet connection lol.

    I agree that sitting behind a keyboard could be a large part of the problem.
    To the guy that said something about the old days and whining, I cant see much whining going on in the replies. Sure the old days were bad, but at the time they weren't, society evolves.

    and this is what I think I'm seeing

    AMoonHawk said
    Because some of my fellow human beings are worse than animals.


    I'd venture to say most. There's just a thin veneer of civility masking our basest instincts and behaviors.

    People either not being taught civility and empathy at home and having no clue that their actions/ rights to be who they are are actually interfering with other peoples rights and day to day lives.

    Keep up the great responses
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    Jul 26, 2013 10:31 AM GMT
    boomerangOz said
    To the guy that said something about the old days and whining, I cant see much whining going on in the replies. Sure the old days were bad, but at the time they weren't, society evolves.


    well, if you think that "racism is getting out of hand" in today's world, you should try living in a world where they cremate you if you're not white. & that wasn't even a century ago. but yeah. just a little thing called holocaust.

    i'm pretty sure the people that had to live through that did think the times were pretty fckn bad *at the moment*

    that was europe, but the 40's & the 50's were overral catastrophe decades in the whole world.

    peal harbor, hiroshima's atomic bomb, & also in 1939 (i think) the guy that invented the lobotomy won a nobel prize for medicine. yeah that make sense.

    society was so uptight, they were all dying inside. then james dean happened. then the beatniks, & then the hippies. that was the result of a society that was so repressed it literally burst out in an anti materialistic movement that was based on free love and not giving a shit about what people think.

    empathy is not something that can be taught. it's a value that can be transmitted from fellow human to fellow human by being empathic.

    someone pointed out that you're whining. it's cos it does sound like it. going by these posts you've made
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    Jul 26, 2013 10:46 AM GMT
    Johnny_Sunshine said
    boomerangOz said
    To the guy that said something about the old days and whining, I cant see much whining going on in the replies. Sure the old days were bad, but at the time they weren't, society evolves.


    well, if you think that "racism is getting out of hand" in today's world, you should try living in a world where they cremate you if you're not white. & that wasn't even a century ago. but yeah. just a little thing called holocaust.

    i'm pretty sure the people that had to live through that did think the times were pretty fckn bad *at the moment*

    that was europe, but the 40's & the 50's were overral catastrophe decades in the whole world.

    peal harbor, hiroshima's atomic bomb, & also in 1939 (i think) the guy that invented the lobotomy won a nobel prize for medicine. yeah that make sense.

    society was so uptight, they were all dying inside. then james dean happened. then the beatniks, & then the hippies. that was the result of a society that was so repressed it literally burst out in an anti materialistic movement that was based on free love and not giving a shit about what people think.

    empathy is not something that can be taught. it's a value that can be transmitted from fellow human to fellow human by being empathic.

    someone pointed out that you're whining. it's cos it does sound like it. going by these posts you've made


    Thanks mate but you obviously didnt comprehend what i was saying, im not whining. im just observing and wanted others opinions, maybe its dickheads like you that in life dont actually look at what is in front of you, and go off half cocked ? Jesus mate lighten up and read.
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    Jul 26, 2013 10:50 AM GMT
    i did make the mistake of READING YOUR SHIT.

    that ain't happening again.

    you can stop whining now.