Scientists Discover What's Killing the Bees - It's Worse Than You Thought

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jul 26, 2013 2:01 AM GMT
    http://qz.com/107970/scientists-discover-whats-killing-the-bees-and-its-worse-than-you-thought/
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Jul 26, 2013 2:22 AM GMT
    I'm not at all surprised. I am very depressed to hear it though.icon_sad.gif
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    Jul 26, 2013 2:27 AM GMT
    I'm sure loyal Republicans will say this is a Libtard invention. Let the corporations rule! Corporations know best, who are mere scientists to challenge them?
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    Jul 26, 2013 2:29 AM GMT
    Well, none of us will be alive much longer if we don't find a solution to this.
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    Jul 26, 2013 3:05 AM GMT
    Scruffypup saidWell, none of us will be alive much longer if we don't find a solution to this.


    That crap is also being found in......honey.
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    Jul 26, 2013 5:40 AM GMT
    Death to Monsanto, Dow, Cargill, and all the other pesticide/fungicide makers.

    Organic is the way to go.
  • Menergy_1

    Posts: 737

    Jul 26, 2013 2:05 PM GMT
    That may explain in part why there's no almond butter on the shelves at Trader Joe's (at least here in Santa Fe NM) - rationed by the supplier due to crop issues they say.

    At least my garden was abuzz this spring and summer with bees aplenty, all busy with my various flowering perennials like cat mint, salvias, etc. A nice comforting sound. I certainly hope this calamity will be reversed in time. A lot of life depends on the survival of the bees!
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    Jul 26, 2013 8:30 PM GMT
    Menergy_1 saidThat may explain in part why there's no almond butter on the shelves at Trader Joe's (at least here in Santa Fe NM) - rationed by the supplier due to crop issues they say.

    At least my garden was abuzz this spring and summer with bees aplenty, all busy with my various flowering perennials like cat mint, salvias, etc. A nice comforting sound. I certainly hope this calamity will be reversed in time. A lot of life depends on the survival of the bees!


    A good trick is to plant a lot of flowering plants that draws the bees away from contaminated sources of pollen.
    We have lots of perrenial fuschia, mallow (which they go ape over)etc. It's a small way to fight back, but if enough of us with yards do it....
  • metta

    Posts: 39134

    Aug 10, 2013 5:45 AM GMT
    The Plight of the Honeybee

    Mass deaths in bee colonies may mean disaster for farmers--and your favorite foods



    http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,2149141,00.html
  • MikemikeMike

    Posts: 6932

    Aug 10, 2013 5:52 AM GMT
    This year I have actually seen brown honey bees in NYC. The past few years NO.icon_biggrin.gif

    Not to be confused with bumble or yellow jackets.icon_idea.gif
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Aug 10, 2013 7:28 AM GMT
    I'm looking forward to reading the Time article. It's so frustrating that people are blowing this off as if it's liberal propaganda. It's the global warming deniers at it again. Meanwhile, we continue to see failing crops and the worst weather of recorded history across the globe. It's insanity.
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    Aug 12, 2013 7:52 AM GMT
    HottJoe saidI'm looking forward to reading the Time article. It's so frustrating that people are blowing this off as if it's liberal propaganda. It's the global warming deniers at it again. Meanwhile, we continue to see failing crops and the worst weather of recorded history across the globe. It's insanity.


    You have no clue what you're talking about! Once again you show you have no grasp of any of the issues you've taken a stand on. You read one agenda driven article and now you're an expert on bees and agriculture. Could you pleas show me documented evidence for the "failing crops and the worst weather of recorded history across the globe" !

    Disclaimer: For the record I'm not an entomologist and I don't play on TV, but having more than a dozen captive bee hives on my ranch makes me more of an expert than you are, in both the area of apiary (beekeeping) and agriculture.

    For the record, European Honey Bees are not native to the western hemisphere and were only brought here in the 1600s.

    Bees are not the only pollinators of man grown crops, or wild crops for that matter.

    Not a single staple crop (wheat, oats, barley, rye, rice etc.) are dependent on bees or other pollinators for that matter. All of them are open pollinated by the wind!

    If every honey bee in the world died tomorrow, it would only decrease food production between 4 and 6% .

    There is no mysterious worldwide collapse in honey bee populations. The reality is that managed hives (which do the majority of pollinating domestic crops) have increased by 45% over the last six years.

    The reality is that the data used to create the mass bee disaster scenario pushed by the media and agenda driven science is dependent on data that is far too regional to take seriously and is nowhere near representative of global trends.

    Don't believe me, then check into the work of DR. Lawrence D. Harder of the department of biology at the University of Calgary and Marcelo Aizen from Buenos Aires.

    In the United Sates 2.5 million bee hives are managed by less than 2,000 commercial beekeepers. These beekeepers take their bees on the road each year to pollinate almonds, cranberries, blueberries and any number of other fruits and vegetables. Because these bees are constantly on the move nearly all year long they are affected by stressors because they don't have the down time that they normally would have in colder months. The bees are never able to build up a resistance to local pathogens and are susceptible to a number of other problems because of being continually on the road including less than optimal hygiene and husbandry of the hives.

    There is no evidence that this last round of CCD ( you read right, CCD has always existed and is nothing new0) has measurably affected the pollinated food supply anywhere in the world. If such were the case increased costs to beekeepers would dictate farmers having to pay more for pollination services that. Fees for pollinating crops have shown little sign of increase since the CCD hype started in 2006.

    The worst part of this is that bee keepers have seen this since man began to keep bees time and time again. CCD is nothing new. This is all hype by leftist environmental groups to impose a ban on "Neonicotinoid" pesticides, a
    group of low toxicity pesticides that environmentalists in such groups as the Sierra Club have decided are the new DDT. So, yes Miss Geneva Flowers, it is another case of liberal agenda driven science.

    The conclusion is that claims of a global crisis in agricultural production are not only exaggerated but totally untrue !

    If you really bothered to take the time to find something out about all of these issues that you are taking a stand on you might actually know something and learn to think for yourself instead of being led by the nose to the alter of the church of progressivism by other people who count on the woefully under informed non-thinkers such as you.

    You really are a silly puddin head!



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    Aug 12, 2013 1:32 PM GMT

    shybuff said, "The reality is that the data used to create the mass bee disaster scenario pushed by the media and agenda driven science is dependent on data that is far too regional to take seriously and is nowhere near representative of global trends.

    Don't believe me, then check into the work of DR. Lawrence D. Harder of the department of biology at the University of Calgary and Marcelo Aizen from Buenos Aires."

    Before you dig yourself in any deeper I would suggest doing proper research using google and the plethora of real hard science abstracts out there instead of the opinions of two scientists.

    Incidentally, it is a global phenomenon, in respect to countries that have been using neonicotinoid pesticides etc.

    Here's another tidbit for you. Ingested neonicotinoids also have addictive qualities like nicotine, and are now being found in plant produce treated with them, as well as honey. How interesting; food made addictive as tobbacco. Guess what the end result is?

    You have to understand that you're not posting in a vaccuum; there are masses of scientific data on the internet that everyone (who can understand the terms)is privy to.

    Much of your rhetoric on your post very much echoes the sentiments we heard back in the 60s about DDT. So safe, so harmless. Yikes.
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    Aug 12, 2013 4:34 PM GMT
    meninlove said
    shybuff said, "The reality is that the data used to create the mass bee disaster scenario pushed by the media and agenda driven science is dependent on data that is far too regional to take seriously and is nowhere near representative of global trends.

    Don't believe me, then check into the work of DR. Lawrence D. Harder of the department of biology at the University of Calgary and Marcelo Aizen from Buenos Aires."

    Before you dig yourself in any deeper I would suggest doing proper research using google and the plethora of real hard science abstracts out there instead of the opinions of two scientists.

    Incidentally, it is a global phenomenon, in respect to countries that have been using neonicotinoid pesticides etc.

    Here's another tidbit for you. Ingested neonicotinoids also have addictive qualities like nicotine, and are now being found in plant produce treated with them, as well as honey. How interesting; food made addictive as tobbacco. Guess what the end result is?

    You have to understand that you're not posting in a vaccuum; there are masses of scientific data on the internet that everyone (who can understand the terms)is privy to.

    Much of your rhetoric on your post very much echoes the sentiments we heard back in the 60s about DDT. So safe, so harmless. Yikes.


    Did you really want to go there with me? First of all I didn't rely on just two scientist. Exactly how much did you google and study the issue?
    Could you cite some of that scientific data? Can you refute anything I have yet written here?
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    Aug 12, 2013 4:43 PM GMT
    shybuffguy said
    meninlove said
    shybuff said, "The reality is that the data used to create the mass bee disaster scenario pushed by the media and agenda driven science is dependent on data that is far too regional to take seriously and is nowhere near representative of global trends.

    Don't believe me, then check into the work of DR. Lawrence D. Harder of the department of biology at the University of Calgary and Marcelo Aizen from Buenos Aires."

    Before you dig yourself in any deeper I would suggest doing proper research using google and the plethora of real hard science abstracts out there instead of the opinions of two scientists.

    Incidentally, it is a global phenomenon, in respect to countries that have been using neonicotinoid pesticides etc.

    Here's another tidbit for you. Ingested neonicotinoids also have addictive qualities like nicotine, and are now being found in plant produce treated with them, as well as honey. How interesting; food made addictive as tobbacco. Guess what the end result is?

    You have to understand that you're not posting in a vaccuum; there are masses of scientific data on the internet that everyone (who can understand the terms)is privy to.

    Much of your rhetoric on your post very much echoes the sentiments we heard back in the 60s about DDT. So safe, so harmless. Yikes.


    Did you really want to go there with me? First of all I didn't rely on just two scientist. Exactly how much did you google and study the issue?
    Could you cite some of that scientific data? Can you refute anything I have yet written here?


    I'm not going anywhere with you, so disengage from the testosterone attitude. *eye twinkle* I and others have spent a lot of hours studying this as it affects us rather directly. Up here we do not do this trucking around of bees on a scale you do in the US. There is a lot of empirical evidence surfacing. You certainly don't need me to start posting links as you can easily look it up on google, being the highly intelligent man you claim to be.
    And I, at this point are believing you are exactly that so am treating as you as such.

    Unless of course you desire opinionated emotionally charged debating with a loser/winner perspective, which is unscientific and I have no time for.
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    Aug 12, 2013 6:07 PM GMT
    Maybe the cold weather in Canada doesn't allow the two of to think or understand that scientist writing papers cite other scientist and other sources of information in their papers. Or, maybe the two of you have never read a scientific paper in your lives? No, let me give you some more information from many more scientific papers from my said vacuum.

    What is being discussed as "Colony Collapse Disorder" is nothing new, but the term is. A scientific paper written in 2006 explains why the authors of the paper decided to change the name of what until then was called "Fall Dwindle Disease" to "Colony Collapse Disorder".
    What is amazing is that while this is the first paper to use the term , yet virtually no one publishing anything about CCD has ever cited this document, including the people who originally wrote it.
    To anyone who has spent any time reading scientific research papers or journalism, the whole idea of using a recently coined and defined term and not citing the original definition goes against what anyone would consider to be proper research and amounts to basically not doing ones research (sound familiar?). In fact according to Dr. Doug Yanga, the Senior Museum Scientist at the University of California, Riverside and acting Commissioner of the International Commission on Zoological Nomenclature, who studied under two of the worlds foremost bee authorities and has a broad history of publishing on the subjects of natural history, pollination ecology and taxonomy of bees, that's exactly what has happened in regards to this paper. The reality is that one can't even retrieve the paper from the website where it originally appeared, but anyone who has read the paper (as I have. I have had a copy of the paper since it was published and it is available on the net in a PDF format.)"you're better educated on the history of CCD than many of the scientist and journalists and beekeepers who have published on CCD" since 2006.

    In 2007 Robyn M. Underwood and Denis VanEngelsdorp of the Pennsylvania State University Department of Entomology and the Pennsylvania Department of Agriculture, respectively, along with a 2009 paper authored by numerous other Scientists along with the two already mentioned, point out that there have been at least 18 historical episodes of similar large scale die offs of honey bees dating back to 1869. At least several of this large scale bee die offs have had symptoms similar enough that they cannot be ruled out as being the the same exact ailment. How often has that little bit of information been acknowledged by any of the scientists or the theories they are advancing about the causes of CCD? None of the current theories are even bothering to mention the fact that these other crashes pre-date the "neonictinoid pesticides", etc., etc.
    The 2009 paper includes the following importment and overlooked statement:
    "Of the more than 200 variables we quantified in this study, 61 were found with enough frequency to permit meaningful comparisons between populations. None of these measures on it's own could distinguish CCD from control colonies."
    Of the 61 variables the authors quantified (pathogen loads, pesticide levels and adult bee physiology among them), no single factor was found with enough consistency to be able to suggest one causal agent.Bees in CCd colonies were found to have higher pathogen loads and were co-infected with more pathogens than the control populations, suggesting either greater pathogen exposure or reduced defenses in CCD bees. Yes, the 2009 study did actually look for connections to pesticides, Verroa mites, beekeeping practices and other things and no such connections were able to stand up to scientific scrutiny.

    Why don't the scientists pushing all of the"smoking gun " studies on this issue go back and read the three papers mentioned? If they did they would find there's a list of symptoms that characterize CCD, which are not universally present in the current studies being advanced. They would also find that they are talking about something that has been going on long before current pesticides and chemicals were in use. If they don't do this and present the full picture of what we are talking about rather than implying that CCD is something new then their studies fail to do what any genuinely scientific hypothesis needs to do: Offer explanations consistent with all of the evidence.

    What is happening is that researchers are looking at one possible factor at a time, and seeing only a tiny part of the whole picture instead of looking at all of the evidence and shaping the "science" to achieve the outcome they want. That is agenda driven science!

    Incidentally, why didn't you mention that the levels of neonicotinoids needed to cause any addiction in people are far beyond any level that exists outside of laboratory situations? What is your agenda in neglecting to mention that little gem?

    Do you need more? I have some 80 more papers and journal entries on ther subject sitting on my desk right now.

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    Aug 12, 2013 6:21 PM GMT
    meninlove said
    shybuffguy said
    meninlove said
    shybuff said, "The reality is that the data used to create the mass bee disaster scenario pushed by the media and agenda driven science is dependent on data that is far too regional to take seriously and is nowhere near representative of global trends.

    Don't believe me, then check into the work of DR. Lawrence D. Harder of the department of biology at the University of Calgary and Marcelo Aizen from Buenos Aires."

    Before you dig yourself in any deeper I would suggest doing proper research using google and the plethora of real hard science abstracts out there instead of the opinions of two scientists.

    Incidentally, it is a global phenomenon, in respect to countries that have been using neonicotinoid pesticides etc.

    Here's another tidbit for you. Ingested neonicotinoids also have addictive qualities like nicotine, and are now being found in plant produce treated with them, as well as honey. How interesting; food made addictive as tobbacco. Guess what the end result is?

    You have to understand that you're not posting in a vaccuum; there are masses of scientific data on the internet that everyone (who can understand the terms)is privy to.

    Much of your rhetoric on your post very much echoes the sentiments we heard back in the 60s about DDT. So safe, so harmless. Yikes.


    Did you really want to go there with me? First of all I didn't rely on just two scientist. Exactly how much did you google and study the issue?
    Could you cite some of that scientific data? Can you refute anything I have yet written here?


    I'm not going anywhere with you, so disengage from the testosterone attitude. *eye twinkle* I and others have spent a lot of hours studying this as it affects us rather directly. Up here we do not do this trucking around of bees on a scale you do in the US. There is a lot of empirical evidence surfacing. You certainly don't need me to start posting links as you can easily look it up on google, being the highly intelligent man you claim to be.
    And I, at this point are believing you are exactly that so am treating as you as such.

    Unless of course you desire opinionated emotionally charged debating with a loser/winner perspective, which is unscientific and I have no time for.



    Are expecting anyone to take you seriously? You spent hours studying this?

    Maybe you missed this gem by Francis Ratnieks of the University of Sussex, the UKs only professor in the field of apiculture: "The fact that honey-bee colonies die in large numbers is nothing strange.

    You certainly wouldn;'t want me to start posting liks, would you?
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    Aug 12, 2013 6:29 PM GMT


    By all means, post links. lol, and I have done lots of research, being the Rightie capitalist I am and Bill is, we are both retired now (in our mid 50s)and so have lots of available time; we just don't enjoy wasting it. *eye twinkle*

    Now do some proper research, not just articles that agree with you. I've spent considerable time reading information on both sides of the arguments. I got involved over 2 years ago when it was blamed on everything from smart meters to cell phones. I disagreed with them, so I'm used to your kind of anger.

    Have a nice day. icon_wink.gif
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    Aug 12, 2013 6:55 PM GMT
    meninlove said

    By all means, post links. lol, and I have done lots of research, being the Rightie capitalist I am and Bill is, we are both retired now (in our mid 50s)and so have lots of available time; we just don't enjoy wasting it. *eye twinkle*

    Now do some proper research, not just articles that agree with you. I've spent considerable time reading information on both sides of the arguments. I got involved over 2 years ago when it was blamed on everything from smart meters to cell phones. I disagreed with them, so I'm used to your kind of anger.

    Have a nice day. icon_wink.gif
    First of all I'm not angry. Just really bored and tired of under informed "involvement" like yours and HottJoe's.

    The reality is that it wouldn't matter what facts were presented or by how many scientists or official government sources. The fact is that you like HottJoe support the current agenda driven science for the simple fact that the current agenda driven science supports the very same agendas you support devoid of facts and reality.
    Have a good day with your "involvement" in the issue, I'm off to check my bee hives.




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    Aug 12, 2013 7:11 PM GMT


    "Just really bored and tired of under informed "involvement" like yours and HottJoe's.

    The reality is that it wouldn't matter what facts were presented or by how many scientists or official government sources. The fact is that you like HottJoe support the current agenda driven science for the simple fact that the current agenda driven science supports the very same agendas you support devoid of facts and reality."

    lol! Well that explains much. It's easy to insult my intelligence etc, but not so easy to convince the men here that know me outside of RJ. icon_wink.gif Nor convince them that the scientific abstracts they've read and that I've read are bunk.
    Remember DDT when you consider articles claiming no harm.

    You go check your hives, I'll speak about this with the apiarists we know.



  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Aug 12, 2013 7:25 PM GMT
    Never fear, Robo-bee is here! icon_eek.gif

    ku-xlarge.jpg

    http://io9.com/5948202/new-project-aims-to-upload-a-honey-bees-brain-into-a-flying-insectobot-by-2015
  • The_Guruburu

    Posts: 895

    Aug 12, 2013 7:38 PM GMT
    Take your balls and go home, boys!
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    Aug 12, 2013 8:05 PM GMT
    The_Guruburu saidTake your balls and go home, boys!


    You said balls! =O
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Aug 12, 2013 9:05 PM GMT
    http://science.time.com/2013/08/09/the-trouble-with-beekeeping-in-the-anthropocene/

    This is the short version of the Time article.

    Shorter version: The domesticated bee can probably be saved through more tinkering with how they are raised. The bigger problem is that wild bees are much more vulnerable.
  • metta

    Posts: 39134

    Dec 05, 2013 5:13 PM GMT
    New Studies Confirm Pesticide Exposure Major Contributor to Declining Honey Bee Populations

    http://ecowatch.com/2013/07/29/pesticides-contributor-declining-honey-bees/