Check Out This Mormon "Yes on 8" Supporter

  • metta

    Posts: 39133

    Nov 11, 2008 8:59 PM GMT
    A Mormon "Yes on 8" Supporter Calls In

    This was my conversation with Nancy from Amarillo, a Mormon who donated money to the Yes on 8 Campaign. She called in after hearing many callers from around the country talking about protesting the Mormon Church for its helping to raise 20 million dollars among its members for Prop 8.


    Go to This Web Page And Click On The Radio Button (or whatever you call it):

    http://www.signorile.com/2008/11/mormon-yes-on-8-supporter-calls-in.html

    Make sure that you hear it to the end.
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    Nov 11, 2008 9:11 PM GMT
    Nice, dealing with the brainwashed Nancy.
  • chitown_mofo

    Posts: 98

    Nov 11, 2008 9:28 PM GMT
    Definitely worth listening to for pointers on how to deal with the Logic of some of these people. That was awesome.
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    Nov 11, 2008 10:04 PM GMT
    This was excellent. Michelangelo Signorile rocks. I am so proud that he relentlessly challenged Nancy's logic.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Nov 11, 2008 10:16 PM GMT
    Well, in dealing with "some of those people" you should understand that Mormons don't view it as "taking away rights," (most Mormons don't even view marriage as a "right"...it is viewed as a sacrament) they view it as defining marriage, something they believe very firmly in and hold very dear. I'm not here advocating it or opening that aspect to debate: that is what they believe and they have just as deep-rooted and valid reasons for believing so as many here have for believing the opposite way. It's funny we have calls for tolerance and understanding but they apparently don't go both ways. Respecting others viewpoints doesn't mean we have to agree with or like them.

    Just because the Mormons raised over half the money that supported Prop 8 hardly equals them being "to blame" for it passing since Mormons account for about 2-4% of California's voting population (and not even all voting Mormons voted yes) and the "No on 8" side raised MORE money than "Yes on 8" and still lost. Nevermind that Prop 8's predecessor, Prop 22, passed by an even larger margin when it was voted on. In other words, there are a LOT of people who agree with those Mormons, even many who also voted for Obama, and I seriously doubt the money from the Mormons played much of a role in "convincing" that many people to vote yes who wouldn't have otherwise. My advice to gay advocates: practice what you preach (i.e. tolerance, coming to a peaceful understanding, dialogue, etc.). Simply promoting anger and hatred-- even in the face of perceived hatred-- isn't helping anyone (it's just getting everyone full of emotion and dividing people further) and reeks of trying to find a "scapegoat" for the defeat.
  • Koaa2

    Posts: 1556

    Nov 11, 2008 10:19 PM GMT
    Let's start the initiative!
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    Nov 11, 2008 11:27 PM GMT
    FishOuttaWater said
    the "No on 8" side raised MORE money than "Yes on 8" and still lost. I seriously doubt the money from the Mormons played much of a role in "convincing" that many people to vote yes who wouldn't have otherwise. My advice to gay advocates: practice what you preach (i.e. tolerance, coming to a peaceful understanding, dialogue, etc.)


    Just one of the many facts you got completely wrong. Were you drunk when you posted this? I don't think you're fooling anybody here. We preach tolerance and acceptance, but when a group like the Mormons seeks to curtail our rights while excercising those same rights the are denying to us through lies, fear, and intimidation, we stop being nice and start being dangerous. There is nothing wrong with our anger leading to protests, marches, civil disobedience, and lawsuits. You're a troll, and a tool for the Yes On 8 side, and considering you're not showing your image, you're probably an LDS spy. Go back under your rock in Utah (or Ohio, if that's where you're REALLY from) and get off this website. That's right. According to your profile, you're not Gay. So get off our website. This is a place for GAY people to feel at home. We're not interested in hosting you in your slumming field trip. There are plenty of fitness websites for straight people. Go join one. You don't need to be here, and personally (though I can't speak for anyone else here) I do not welcome you or want you here. How dare you, as a straight "tourist" come on our website and presume to criticise our feelings and protests and then attempt to give us your "advice."
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    Nov 11, 2008 11:30 PM GMT
    "perceived hatred"

    Please proceed in an orderly fashion to the nearest exit. Do not scream, do not resist. Resistance is futile. Please proceed in an orderly fashion to the nearest exit. Your pod is ready.
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    Nov 11, 2008 11:45 PM GMT
    FishOuttaWater,

    I obviously don't speak for everyone, but I also think that Mormons voted against gay marriage out of religious morality than hate. They have the right to have whatever opinion of us as they wish.

    But then you said we are being intolerant of the Mormons' views. How? They took away our rights, and we're protesting in return. How is that intolerant? Their church can deny gays a marriage until the cows come home. We're not upset about that. We just don't like that they (and other groups) are trying to push their views onto everyone by making it a law. That is intolerance.

    Some people are making ugly comments about Mormons, but they are in the minority. The rest of us are protesting for our rights. That's not showing intolerance.
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    Nov 12, 2008 1:04 AM GMT
    FishOuttaWater saidRespecting others viewpoints doesn't mean we have to agree with or like them.


    I can respect others viewpoints up to the point where their 'view point' strips me of rights.

    As the saying goes... if you don't believe in same sex marriages... DON'T GET ONE!

    The Constitution allows them to bar members of the same sex from getting married in their church. Nothing put into law can ever change that, as the government can make no laws regarding religion, or the practice thereof.
  • swimbikerun

    Posts: 2835

    Nov 12, 2008 1:35 AM GMT
    FishOuttaWater saidWell, in dealing with "some of those people" you should understand that Mormons don't view it as "taking away rights," (most Mormons don't even view marriage as a "right"...it is viewed as a sacrament) they view it as defining marriage, something they believe very firmly in and hold very dear. I'm not here advocating it or opening that aspect to debate: that is what they believe and they have just as deep-rooted and valid reasons for believing so as many here have for believing the opposite way. It's funny we have calls for tolerance and understanding but they apparently don't go both ways. Respecting others viewpoints doesn't mean we have to agree with or like them.

    Just because the Mormons raised over half the money that supported Prop 8 hardly equals them being "to blame" for it passing since Mormons account for about 2-4% of California's voting population (and not even all voting Mormons voted yes) and the "No on 8" side raised MORE money than "Yes on 8" and still lost. Nevermind that Prop 8's predecessor, Prop 22, passed by an even larger margin when it was voted on. In other words, there are a LOT of people who agree with those Mormons, even many who also voted for Obama, and I seriously doubt the money from the Mormons played much of a role in "convincing" that many people to vote yes who wouldn't have otherwise. My advice to gay advocates: practice what you preach (i.e. tolerance, coming to a peaceful understanding, dialogue, etc.). Simply promoting anger and hatred-- even in the face of perceived hatred-- isn't helping anyone (it's just getting everyone full of emotion and dividing people further) and reeks of trying to find a "scapegoat" for the defeat.


    The problem is that a majority(California voters) shouldn't be allowed to vote away the civil rights of a minority (LGBT) ironically by another minority (Mormans) who've previously not allowed another minority (Blacks) to marry, ironically a group who chose to vote away civil rights of another minority (LGBT). Ahh the circle of life!!!
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    Nov 12, 2008 2:29 AM GMT
    FishOuttaWater saidWell, in dealing with "some of those people" you should understand that Mormons don't view it as "taking away rights," (most Mormons don't even view marriage as a "right"...it is viewed as a sacrament) they view it as defining marriage,
    I am glad you confess that Mormons see marriage and support this discriminatory Proposition because it is a sacrament. Frankly sacraments don't belong in our constitution and is a violation of the first amendment. The fact that you say that the Mormons that voted for it KNEW they were putting a religious doctrine in California Constitution show they knowingly violated the 1st amendment.

    Anyone who thinks that loving homosexual relationships are inferior to heterosexual ones is a BIGOT.

    As far as practicing what you preach, as a "conservative Mormon", you should not associate with any of the members here in any thought of intimacy ..

    http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_lds4.htm"I researched what current Mormon material says about homosexuality. The result shocked me; there are eighty-eight pieces of homophobic material readily available for church members. Here's an example, from a manual for 13-to-18-year-olds:

    'The unholy transgression of homosexuality is either rapidly growing or tolerance is giving it wider publicity. ... The Lord condemns and forbids this practice. ... God made me that way, some say, as they rationalize and excuse themselves. ... This is blasphemy. Is man not made in the image of God, and does he think God to be ‘that way'?" "


    I do not hate Mormons but the one who want to impose their religion on us are WRONG!
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Nov 12, 2008 2:50 AM GMT
    Oh I fucking hate Mormons, I lived in Utah for 10 years and they came knocking on my door many times spewing the "one god" rubbish.

    They pray in Calculus class for fuck sake. They won't watch R-rated movies because the church doesn't want them to. One of the guy went to see The Fugitive with me and told me "why didn't the church want me to see that? It's entertaining."

    That's just how the mormon drones operate: blindly follow the church calling. They didn't expect the gays to protest because they're too arrogant to think we just go quietly away. They cried foul how gays singled them out of the hate churches, oblivious to the fact that they singled out a minority group and stripped their rights away.

    I think we're giving them what they're due. If "traditional marriage" wasn't "redefined", the mormons would still have polygamy and share their wives with the prophet.
  • MotorBrett

    Posts: 145

    Nov 12, 2008 2:52 AM GMT
    This woman is a fucking moron... Ugh...

    Why can't they institute an IQ based euthanasia program... Seriously.

    icon_confused.gif
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    Nov 12, 2008 3:12 AM GMT
    dowal saidFishOuttaWater,

    I obviously don't speak for everyone, but I also think that Mormons voted against gay marriage out of religious morality than hate. They have the right to have whatever opinion of us as they wish.

    But then you said we are being intolerant of the Mormons' views. How? They took away our rights, and we're protesting in return. How is that intolerant? Their church can deny gays a marriage until the cows come home. We're not upset about that. We just don't like that they (and other groups) are trying to push their views onto everyone by making it a law. That is intolerance.

    Some people are making ugly comments about Mormons, but they are in the minority. The rest of us are protesting for our rights. That's not showing intolerance.


    However, we're not trying to take away their right to worship as they see fit... We're not protesting their views as people who have shown intolerance to anything other than their point of view. We're only protesting their hateful lack of tolerance for anything other than what THEY believe.

    Being raised Mormon, I remember the day when Black men weren't allowed to hold their priestood. I've listened to their sermons preaching about how their belief system is based on "free Choice" yet they seek to take it away. I've seen their need of baptising the spirit of every person in the world that has ever lived, so that God will allow them into "their" heaven.

    So anyone who says that the Mormon church does not throw their belief system on everyone and expects everyone to live their way, DOES NOT HAVE A REAL KNOWLEDGE OF THE MORMON CHURCH.