Gays in Russia

  • Kazachok

    Posts: 415

    Jul 31, 2013 5:06 PM GMT
    Since this has been such a hot topic recently with RJers I feel that I, being Russian, should address some issues.
    Keep in mind of course, that I am living in Canada.
    The first issue is time. Most Western countries repealed their "sodomy" laws in the 1960s and Stonewall happened in 1969. Obviously the Soviet public was well-insulated from that event and its consequences. The Russian Federation scrapped its law in 1993, so it's only been 20 years since it happened.
    How tolerant was the Western world towards LGBT 20 years after Stonewall? Well, it was embroiled in hysteria over AIDS and child molestation, and basking in the afterglow of Anita Bryant's crusade.
    So what do we have in Russia now: A resentful and dissilusioned population wedged between the Communist (read: Stalinist) Party of the RF, Neo-Nazis, the Church, falsifiers of history, newly-minted Evangelicals, gastarbeiters, corruption, and so forth. Resentful for the end of the Soviet Union, dissilusioned after the kleptocratic "democracy" of the 1990s, and generally with a hair-trigger temper. They really do think the West is trying to destroy their country.
    It is not surprising that discussions of LGBT issues quickly take on a hysterical nature. On a recent talk-show a hysterical granny asked an LGBT activist how she would explain two men kissing on a bus to her grandchildren. He replied it's because they are in love, after which the audience began to hiss.
    If they don't like that answer, then I frankly see no hope.
    Also a new fad if the whole "I respect the Church" phenomenon. It has become almost fashionable to declare respect for the church, "traditional values" (whatever they are) and that other crap, without REALLY knowing what the Church or traditional values are.
    Oh, and on a minor note, Russia underwent twenty years of falling population before rebounding in 2012 so that concern plays too (and immigration a la Western Europe is not going to happen).
    Keep calm, and fight on.
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    Jul 31, 2013 5:38 PM GMT
    Why does Russia keep going backwards?
    From what I have read about Russia, it used to be a pioneer in innovation with quite many famous mathematicians and scientists.
    How come a nation like that can be so backwards in such issues?
    Where did Russia lose it's way?
  • Kazachok

    Posts: 415

    Jul 31, 2013 5:55 PM GMT
    Bharatiya saidWhy does Russia keep going backwards?
    From what I have read about Russia, it used to be a pioneer in innovation with quite many famous mathematicians and scientists.
    How come a nation like that can be so backwards in such issues?
    Where did Russia lose it's way?

    In 1933 when Uncle Joe decided to reinstate the "sodomy law" (it was repealed in 1922 by the Bolsheviks.)
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    Jul 31, 2013 6:20 PM GMT
    Bharatiya saidWhy does Russia keep going backwards?
    '' ''
    Where did Russia lose it's way?


    It has not lost its way. Its progressing into a super power. Russia. No one is arguing they don't have work to do to progress but before you talk about going backwards why don't you fix whats wrong with the US, govt abuse of power, Zimmerman getting acquitted etc.
    Every country has problems. We should all support programs and initiatives to fix those problems before resorting into generalized uninformed statements.
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    Jul 31, 2013 6:26 PM GMT
    green_eyed_stud said
    Bharatiya saidWhy does Russia keep going backwards?
    '' ''
    Where did Russia lose it's way?


    It has not lost its way. Its progressing into a super power. Russia. No one is arguing they don't have work to do to progress but before you talk about going backwards why don't you fix whats wrong with the US, govt abuse of power, Zimmerman getting acquitted etc.
    Every country has problems. We should all support programs and initiatives to fix those problems before resorting into generalized uninformed statements.

    Because he's from the Netherlands? So much for generalizing, huh? icon_lol.gif
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    Aug 01, 2013 5:01 AM GMT
    IceBuckets said
    green_eyed_stud said
    Bharatiya saidWhy does Russia keep going backwards?
    '' ''
    Where did Russia lose it's way?


    It has not lost its way. Its progressing into a super power. Russia. No one is arguing they don't have work to do to progress but before you talk about going backwards why don't you fix whats wrong with the US, govt abuse of power, Zimmerman getting acquitted etc.
    Every country has problems. We should all support programs and initiatives to fix those problems before resorting into generalized uninformed statements.

    Because he's from the Netherlands? So much for generalizing, huh? icon_lol.gif


    I think he mentioned the US as in the US is the No.1 super power in the world and a symbol of an open society. Even that has it's challenges etc.
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    Aug 01, 2013 5:30 AM GMT
    Russians are hot though icon_biggrin.gif
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    Aug 01, 2013 6:27 AM GMT
    green_eyed_stud said
    Bharatiya saidWhy does Russia keep going backwards?
    '' ''
    Where did Russia lose it's way?


    Zimmerman getting acquitted etc.


    This has nothing to do with anything, and just to be clear, by ALL legal standpoints, he could not have been anything BUT acquitted. It doesn't matter what you think the moral answer is. Law doesn't base on morals and feelings, it bases on hard evidence. Please tell me how that is a flaw. If you want to talk corrupt law and government, kindly review the Amanda Knox case, as well as the Monster of Florence case. Italy does what our media tried to do to Zimmerman. Demonify a person in the eyes of the public. Once the public is out for blood, it doesn't matter what other evidence turns up, because guilty or innocent, that person will never fully be safe. Italians do not like to lose face. The man responsible for the incarceration and media vilification of Amanda Knox was also the man greatly responsible for the unjust arrests and mishandling of the Monster of Florence murders, which in turn allowed the killer to escape and never be found. Our system uses cold, hard proof and the right to fair trial in order to prevent these kinds of things.
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    Aug 01, 2013 6:40 AM GMT
    This thread caused me to crave a shot of vodka.
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    Aug 01, 2013 7:03 AM GMT
    I love Canada.
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    Aug 01, 2013 7:20 AM GMT
    somersault said
    pat33rob saidI love Canada.


    LOL

    We'll stand on guard, we'll stand on guard for thee

    icon_wink.gif



    We'll always stand on guard for anyone icon_smile.gif till u hate the gays... Then we write u off obviously icon_smile.gif (that's the new anthem, hahah)


    I personally think Vancouver should hold the 2014 Winter Olympics once again and just have Russia return the money it's been given by sponsors. The facilities are still in shape, winter will happen in the mountains....its Canada.... And that way the athletes aren't in danger, the fans will still support the games as they should be supported, and the civilized world can breathe a sigh of relief.
  • 1001H

    Posts: 6

    Aug 01, 2013 9:32 AM GMT
    A big topic and not much time. Russia is not the only state that faces problems with its own history, place in the world and contemporaneity in terms of minority rights. IMHO the big question is the place or power of individuals and fanatic interests (super entitled and very well organized) against the greater needs of society. Sure, gay rights advocates have an uphill battle in public discourse, in the sense they are on the defensive against some kind of social, political and church histeria. Yet Russia starts from a different mindset towards individual rights than the West, and will chart out a different course for its own future. I do know a couple of gay gays in Russia and they have regular lives.

    And not to say there is no overreaching by state and church interests in Russia, I am more worried about economic fanaticization in the West, and its political/religious counterparts. I.e. look at Wall Street's excesses and tell me what the few people /institutions that almost destroyed the world economy have contributed to society, in the sense so more people can live better? Or tell me there is no Big Brother there. As to Putin, the western press (and certain interests within Russia itself) would love to see Putin's downfall. Most Russians do not even notice this histerical nonsense and support him as a true leader, someone they respect and trust. The western media cannot consent to the fact Russia is finding its own place in the world and is growing in strength. Russians are Slavic brothers to me and am happy to see Putin at the helm. He is smart, sensible and predictible. Most importantly he is one of the few leaders to understand implicitly the dangers to society of privatizing huge swaths of public intersts, when they become too individualized. He has contributed to increased affluence of ordinary Russians and the nation's economic stabilization (much to the dismay of certain political fanatics in the west); contributed to increased role of Russia in the EU based on healthy, economic fundamentals, and he is not afraid or ashamed of Russia's socialist past

  • Vaughn

    Posts: 1880

    Aug 01, 2013 10:17 AM GMT
    OneSongGlory saidRussians are hot though icon_biggrin.gif


    You've never been to Estonia.
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    Aug 01, 2013 12:16 PM GMT
    We can only do so much for the LGBT in a country we have no authority in. We can boycott their economy, fund their LGBT groups, spread the message and get companies and personalities to act against it.

    I know Russia went through quite a transition from socialism to capitalism and all the corruption in between. That is no excuse for their behaviour today towards a minority group. I can expect that from Haiti or Jamaica where schools are scarce and they are too busy trying to survive to even bother to understand LGBT issues. But Russia? Cuba is still socialist today and in the last 5 years went from being completely backwards on gay rights to having Fidel Castro apologize publicly to the LGBT community, to cover sex change for transexuals under their free health care program, to celebrate the first marriage between a transexual and a man, to educate the population nationally on LGBT issues, to host gay nights at their most famous clubs, and to soon allow for gay marriage in the island. Russia needs to sobber the fuck up.
  • madsexy

    Posts: 4843

    Aug 01, 2013 1:57 PM GMT
    What is fascinating (in a can't look away from a train wreck way) is that Russia IS regressing sociologically or at least is repeating its 20th century history. Under the socialist regime oppression of various groups was rampant, particularly religious oppression - people were prevented from engaging in their faith or even in disclosing their beliefs for fear of persecution. And now, again, the ethnic oppression and gay oppression is escalating. It's sad, but it's true. At least in "the west" we're progressing, not regressing.
  • Kazachok

    Posts: 415

    Aug 01, 2013 3:22 PM GMT
    Gospoda, have you even bothered to read what I wrote?
  • Kazachok

    Posts: 415

    Aug 01, 2013 3:25 PM GMT
    somersault said
    green_eyed_stud said
    Bharatiya saidWhy does Russia keep going backwards?
    '' ''
    Where did Russia lose it's way?


    It has not lost its way. Its progressing into a super power. Russia. No one is arguing they don't have work to do to progress but before you talk about going backwards why don't you fix whats wrong with the US, govt abuse of power, Zimmerman getting acquitted etc.
    Every country has problems. We should all support programs and initiatives to fix those problems before resorting into generalized uninformed statements.


    Yeah right, Russia is one of the most corrupt countries in the last 400 years (England and China being the others). They attacked and took control of about 20 different countries and cultures to form the USSR. Now the entire corrupt mess is run by 4-5 oligarchs. Russia never changes. Yeltsin was a drunken mess of a crook and Putin is just s strong armed thug.

    Somersault, sweetie, you overstepped.
    The USSR was a continuation of the Russian Empire. As for Eastern Poland, the Baltics, and Moldova, they were just taking back what was rightfully theirs.
    Next thing you know you'll be telling me about poor little Germany, fighting off Russian aggression. Well they didn't have to stab us in the back (July 22, 1941.)
  • Fargo

    Posts: 144

    Aug 02, 2013 12:53 AM GMT
    Time to cross Russia off my TO VISIT list ... wait it's not there to begin with.
  • AMoonHawk

    Posts: 11406

    Aug 02, 2013 9:44 PM GMT
    Axelx99 saidi'm Russian, and i'm living in different country now. but Russia will alway's be a awesome country.

    Smoking too much weed icon_twisted.gif
  • AMoonHawk

    Posts: 11406

    Aug 02, 2013 9:46 PM GMT
    QSHLTABABUFONTONFAGQAKHJK saidPUTINRUSSIA vrs AMERICA baby !

    corrected
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    Aug 02, 2013 9:51 PM GMT
    Notice that the guys saying Russia is wonderful don't live there...icon_razz.gif
  • NK_CLT

    Posts: 3

    Aug 02, 2013 10:06 PM GMT
    The majority of Russians don't think this way. I've worked there and have many Russian friends. This is Putin's strategy to avert the spotlight on his failed party leadership. I have no doubt things will change with new leadership.
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    Aug 02, 2013 10:27 PM GMT
    USSR was not a continuation of the Russian Empire. Dunno how anyone could make that claim. Ask Louis XVI whether he thinks the French Republic was a "continuation" of the France of the French monarchy. Any political change that overhauls the civil, religious, literary, cultural, and economic order in a radical way is no continuation.

    But, what I was going to say, was that a lot of Russians have the sweetest profiles if you look at them. Ugh, it's so sad. A higher proportion of them talk about true love and finding the right guy etc etc...it saddens me greatly that they will have a harder time finding this moving forward.
  • safety43_mma1...

    Posts: 4251

    Aug 02, 2013 10:28 PM GMT
    russia is a joke i am sorry to offend people it isnt my goal jsut cant believe that thye r saying it is all good to beat up someone because they r gay. all i am saying is TRY THAT SHIT WITH ME AND SEE WHAT THE HELL HAPPENS.