A plan?

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Nov 12, 2008 9:17 AM GMT
    How about we stop blaming and start organizing? We have incredible economic leverage. We have huge numbers. We have absolutely no focus. We protest here and there. We gather in huge numbers to do things that do nothing. Protest outside of the Mormon Churches? I am sure that does not only do nothing, but galvinizes the Mormon cummunity.

    We can do incredible things. But we take all that gay energy and direct it in places that feel good and do nothing.

    When will we be smart like our opponents and do something that works? We need focus. We need a plan. We need to attack our opponents in a way that hurts. We need a cohesive plan of attack that hurts our opponents. Protests feel good but do nothing. We need to aggressively attack. Find a weakness and attack. And we all need to be behind the attack. Make it specific, make it focused, let all Gay people know, and attack.

    I do not know what it is. Brighter minds than mine can decide. But we need to pick a target, a weakness of our opponents, and attack it with the full power of the gay community. Maybe it is a state, maybe it is one business, but we need to be of one voice. Otherwise, we are just spitting in the wind.
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    Nov 12, 2008 9:48 AM GMT
    Since I have posted this post, there have been almost 300 posts past me to posts of very little value. "think he is hot" "does he have a big dick". Not that that is not important. But there have been almost 3000 views of those posts.

    Does anyone wonder why we gay people are in the shape we are in? Nothing personal. My post was not fun or pretty. But it is a great example of why we are where we are. No one cares. No one wants to fight. No one wants to fight for anything anymore. This new generation has lost it. It has all been given to them. They have lost the will to fight. To FIGHT! They would rather play video games.
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    Nov 12, 2008 2:33 PM GMT
    I am not sure by your posts if the Mormon Church is the enemy you want to hurt. However, if that is the case, then you must become educated about the enemy as you have stated. I am presently reading a book by Jack B. Worthy by the title of The Mormon Cult, A Former Missionary Reveals the Secrets of Mormon Mind Control.

    The Mormon religion is very vulnerable because there whole religion is based on a pack of lies. The best way to hurt them is to get the word out on those lies. If you go to a protest in front of the Mormon Church then be ready to pass out information to non Mormons that are curious standers by. Most Mormons have been brain washed into believing that anything that is passed to them that contradicts the teachings of the church leaders is from Satan, so you are unlikely to teach them anything but they are always trying to grow their cult and they would be very affected by say a group of gays following in the footsteps of their white shirted, black tied missionary boys.

    When I finish the book I will try to summarize what I have learned but you or anyone else may get this book or find out information online. Start by going to www.exmormon.org
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    Nov 12, 2008 4:01 PM GMT
    I would like to see a huge march on D.C. at some point. I would gladly go on my own dime for something like that. How come we have all these huge circuit and other gay events in various places but no national RIGHTS event? It's stupid.
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    Nov 12, 2008 5:04 PM GMT
    Trigger, glad you posted this. I replied to another one a few days ago regarding lessons learned from Prop.8.

    In essence I said what you just did. We need to start organizing and showing people that we mean business. i said that Pride parades don't do us any favors, and how I knew people would be upset at me for saying it and attack me, which happened in the very next reply. I am not against Pride but parading around wearing next to nothing and doing all the things that go on in Pride (and we all know what I'm talking about) is not the way to gain the respect that we deserve or fight for our rights. If we think about who our "enemy" is, these people see us and think we are perverted and bringing society down and...we are not proving them wrong.
    Putting ourselves in their shoes would be a start (EDIT: meaning, we need to see things their way in order to have a strategy that will allow us to fight their oppression) .How? (EDIT: This is an EXAMPLE and it does NOT represent my views in religion or homosexuality. I am religion free and intend to stay that way) Well, say I am say a devout, staunch christian and I think that homosexuality is immoral and I happen to go down the street and see this gay parade with a float that looks like a giant penis and every so often it spews something white, do you think I am not going to be shocked and offended? Most religious people are afraid and ashamed of sex and we as a community are too oversexed. There was one posting on here "Strip for rights", sure, like strippers get much respect from society. In addition to Pride, and notice how I am not saying instead, we need to have a more serious movement.

    (EDIT: I DO believe this is a big issue in the gay community) Another weakness that we have is that we are way too bitchy and catty against each other. I see it on here, I see at the bars and pretty much where there is a large group of gay men all in one place. For some reason, some feel they need to compete with one another, and "outbitch" one another and be plain mean and rude. How about if we just call a truce for the time being and instead of using all that sarcasm and bitchiness that we use with each other, we channel it to do something more constructive? Say organizing a REAL movement, use our voice not to fight with each other but to fight against discrimination. We need to educate those who can and are willing to be educated and show them we are as normal as the straightest straight. We need to tell the church to butt off, that there is something called separation of church and state. Let's look at what made the black's civil rights movement so successful and try to apply a thing or two.
    And to those who don't want to be educated, then, as Triggerman said, we need to attack. Civility can only get us so far, marches outside temples and churches will only get us so far. We need to get off our asses other than for bottoming and go out there and show the world that we are here to stay and that we deserve to be treated with respect.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Nov 12, 2008 5:17 PM GMT
    In the "Mormon Bashing" thread, a number of us RJers posted suggestions on how we can become more focused and effective.

    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/331842/

    The Huffington Post also offers some suggestions on how the gay community can leverage Obama's election strategy to meet our own objectives.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/lee-stranahan/four-lessons-gay-marriage_b_142469.html

    The key points/phases:

    1) Anger Loses
    2) Get Organized
    3) Outreach Works
    4) Pick Your Battles
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Nov 15, 2008 9:43 AM GMT
    Digatal Ghost-

    I love that you like me but reading your complete post I am not sure that you get me. I would love it if I thought you totally got me. I am a bit tired of fighting this fight alone. But, as much as I would love to have you as a friend, I need to be be completely honest. You still do not get me. I could not care less about about religion. That is someone else's dictates based on writings of pre-intellectial writings. Jesus does not mean anything to me. I could not care less about what he says about anything. If Jesus had anything to say, why did he not say, "hey guys, no offense, but the Earth orbits around the Sun. Nothing big, but as the son of God, I just thought I would let you know." Or something. Can anyone that believes in Jesus as the Son of God point to anything he said that shows he knew something that no one else knew? Montana would win three SuperBowls? Anything?
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    Nov 15, 2008 10:09 AM GMT
    The Bible, which is not a book but a collection of books, is written by people that thought the Earth was the center of the Universe. Huh? Wrong? Completely wrong. But is it a collection of writings deemed appropriate by the Roman government. It is a collection of writings deemed appropriate by the Roman Government. Based on writings of people that truely believed the Earth was the center of the Universe. That the sun rotated around the Earth. That is what the writers believed. Read the bible. They were wrong about the big things, maybe they are wrong about the little things???

    And we still argue about the Bible? It was written, at least the books of the bible were written, by people that thought the sun revolved around the Earth. Huh? It has not been proven wrong?

    Jeezus, why does anyone call themselves Christians, and why? How? Based on what?
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    Nov 15, 2008 10:40 AM GMT
    [quote]

    The Mormon religion is very vulnerable because there whole religion is based on a pack of lies. [quote]

    I recently watched Zeitgeist the movie, and Zeitgeist Addendum, both downloadable from www.zeitgeistmovie.com. In the first part, it shows, through extensive and credible academic research, that the entire Christian religion is a myth, just like the religions of ancient Greece, Rome, Egypt etc..and is almost entirely based on the religion of ancient Egypt and the Egyptian Book of the Dead.
  • GQjock

    Posts: 11649

    Nov 15, 2008 11:18 AM GMT
    1) Anger Loses
    2) Get Organized
    3) Outreach Works
    4) Pick Your Battles


    All true but all a little bit of a generalization
    Every conflict is unique
    Ours is unique because it pits us against the hypocrisy of religion
    more specifically that of the Mormon Church
    and that is where we need to stay
    This isn't about us against blacks or hispanics or older people
    The excuse to hate is ALWAYS religious
    That's why we have to stay focused on keeping the argument against the religious stand
    and so far I am happy with the response
    and a boycott of ANYTHING Utah should be next
    I even think we should start pressuring the Sundance Festival to either make a statement (which is more likely) or move the festival to someplace else
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Nov 15, 2008 11:33 AM GMT
    What religion is not based on a whole pack of lies?
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    Nov 15, 2008 11:37 AM GMT
    I already started attacking the Sundance Festival about two weeks ago about why they are holding their big event in a town, city, state that does not comport to the values that they say they hold.

    Been there. Done that. Two weeks ahead of you.
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    Nov 15, 2008 11:41 AM GMT
    Where was the love? Where was the support? Two weeks ago, it was just me taking on the Hollywood establishment holding one of their most important events in Utah, of all places?

    Now.you want to support me? Great? The more the merrier!
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    Nov 15, 2008 11:45 AM GMT
    Maybe it would help if we had a gay national organisation like the NAACP, American Jewish Congress, Union of Progressive Zionists etc..with chapters or branches nationwide, and across college campuses?

    Get a/the movement started. I'm typing this off the top of my head.

    Next..$$$$ we need that to mount successful and big press/media/information/publicity campaigns. Having friends sitting high in those places helps. Better having some of us in those seats ourselves would help a big deal.

    Having clout on a national/international level..having friends or being in the media/news networks, congress, finance institutions.. the big corporations..eg..the fashion/luxury goods industry, entertainment/Hollywood...

    How about connecting with other gay rights groups/organisations, human rights/civil rights groups and countries that already have gay marriage/rights enshrined, and working together on a movement..

    just some thoughts and ideas..
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Nov 15, 2008 11:48 AM GMT
    Now, it is two of us. But I started critizing Sundance two weeks ago. Alone. With no help and allot of people complaining that Sundance is really an LA thing. That bitching about Utah was useless because it was an LA based thing. I fought on. I have emailed the Sundance festival itself, for which I was ridiculed. Some idiot siad well they are LA based so it will not mean anything.

    They hold it in Utah. We are fighting Utah. The tax money and hotel moeny and restaurant money all goes to Utah. The Morman state of Utah.

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Nov 15, 2008 11:56 AM GMT
    How about we wait for no one to help us and we just do this thing on our own? Fuck the NAACP, And all of those organizations, How about we just do it? We wait for all those top heavy organizations to make a decision about whether this is the fight they want to take on or not, and nothing happens? I am old school. Protests come from the streets, not from top heavy organizations? Let's put the word out and shame all those liberal Hollywood type that will be in Park City for Sundance?
  • GQjock

    Posts: 11649

    Nov 15, 2008 11:57 AM GMT
    Been there. Done that. Two weeks ahead of you.

    lol... I'm sure they're taking note
    It's not about Attacking the Sundance Festival per say
    They just happen to be in a State in the eye of this storm
    given their history and politics
    THEY have a unique position where they can actually SAY something
    about this
    I am NOT advocating a boycott of the festival
    but I am advocating putting pressure on them to come out and make a statement
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    Nov 15, 2008 12:02 PM GMT
    How about we show up in mass, with cameras rolling, and ask all the celebs why they are in a state that took away our rights? Why they support a state that took away our rights? Lets youtube ever celeb there. Put them on cam. They would not go to South Africa during the boycott? Lets make Utah the new South Africa!
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    Nov 15, 2008 12:06 PM GMT
    You say pressure, which means nothing. What pressure? How?

    I say boycott and BIG and we videotape every celebrity there and post it on youtube and we say for us or against us? Put the money down, Let the rubber hit the road and actually DO something.
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    Nov 15, 2008 12:10 PM GMT
    GQ-

    No. It is about boycotting and hurting the people that run Sundance in a state that hurt us big time. We make them pay for what they do. Sundance pays huge money to Utah in taxes and revenues. What better place to hurt them? If not here, where?
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    Nov 15, 2008 12:17 PM GMT
    Who will join me in a boycott off Sundance? Who will go with me to hurt them where it will hurt? I say, attack them in the pocket book. Attack them with the people that supposedly support us.

    I say attack! No more marches in Hillcrest! No more marches in West Hollywood! No more marches in the Castro!

    Let's be an army. Let's hit them where they hurt. Let's have huge a march on a huge march on Sundance!!! Who is with me?
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    Nov 15, 2008 12:29 PM GMT
    I'm with you in spirit! ...Next stop the G20 meeting in NYC?
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    Nov 15, 2008 12:31 PM GMT
    Fuck it. If people do not care about their right to marry, why should I? I am not getting married anytime soon, That right does not effect me. I could not care less if they are married or want to get married. I am not. It does not effect me . I do not care if you are married or if you got married in the last 6 months.. I will not go to the voting booth to ensure that your marriages count. I willl not fight if you will not fight. I am not fighting anymore..
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    Nov 15, 2008 12:33 PM GMT
    g20? want to fight them? Let's go, brother!
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    Nov 15, 2008 12:41 PM GMT
    G20- Oh yeah, they will help us as gay people in California.