Finally - Defeat and surrender on the War on Drugs

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    Aug 12, 2013 3:09 PM GMT
    It's about time.

    http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/holder-mandatory-sentencing-drug/2013/08/12/id/519887
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    Aug 12, 2013 9:39 PM GMT
    This is a very positive change.


    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323446404579007043413137888.html?mod=WSJ_MIDDLENexttoWhatsNewsSecond
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    Aug 12, 2013 10:34 PM GMT
    http://www.drugpolicy.org/

    What Breaking Bad REALLY Tells Us about the War on Drugs from Brave New Foundation on Vimeo.

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    Aug 12, 2013 10:43 PM GMT
    For the best writing on why we have to change our drug policy laws, read Radley Balko. He identifies as a Libertarian and he was an editor at Reason magazine. No matter what his political affiliation, he thinks and writes clearly.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/news/the-agitator
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    Aug 12, 2013 11:50 PM GMT
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    Aug 13, 2013 12:05 AM GMT
    BackToTop said


    presentmind/balancing/buildingup/georgelifts/jockthevote/unintended/jim2013/backtotop
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    Aug 13, 2013 12:25 AM GMT
    One of the more sensible things that have been done under the Obama Admn. We all agree the drug laws are idiotic and senseless and they need to change.

    Thank you Holder.
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    Aug 13, 2013 12:26 AM GMT
    images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRl3LMemAKbd2cPwrmPY0L
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    Aug 13, 2013 12:29 AM GMT
    msuNdc saidOne of the more sensible things that have been done under the Obama Admn. We all agree the drug laws are idiotic and senseless and they need to change.

    Thank you Holder.


    Probably, IMO, the best thing he's done.

    Folks in prison for 5 - 10 years for smoking a little pot. Senseless and a tragic waste. Not saying this because I'm a pothead either as it's been 27 years since the last time for me, but that's me, and other should be free to decide differently.
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    Aug 13, 2013 12:36 AM GMT
    freedomisntfree said
    msuNdc saidOne of the more sensible things that have been done under the Obama Admn. We all agree the drug laws are idiotic and senseless and they need to change.

    Thank you Holder.


    Probably, IMO, the best thing he's done.

    Folks in prison for 5 - 1- for smoking a little pot. Senseless and a tragic waste. Not saying this because I'm a pothead either as it's been 27 years since the last time for me, but that's me, and other should be free to decide differently.


    I am the exact same. I won't ever understand the logic behind wanting to do drugs but I also realize that doesn't make someone a bad person and needing to serve time in jail.

    Alcohol can be rehabbed by going to meetings.
    Drugs can be rehabbed by going to prison.

    Logical FAIL
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    Aug 13, 2013 12:48 AM GMT
    freedomisntfree said
    msuNdc saidOne of the more sensible things that have been done under the Obama Admn. We all agree the drug laws are idiotic and senseless and they need to change.

    Thank you Holder.

    Probably, IMO, the best thing he's done.

    Folks in prison for 5 - 1- for smoking a little pot. Senseless and a tragic waste. Not saying this because I'm a pothead either as it's been 27 years since the last time for me, but that's me, and other should be free to decide differently.

    I'll make it a toss-up with Holder's (the Administration's) decision not to defend DOMA.

    My concern is drivers being impaired on the roads, and in other critical situations that impact the safety of others.

    We have the same issue with alcohol, but there's a century of precedent in social behaviors and public laws that regulate drinking in our modern high-speed world. Before drugs go legal, or become less illegal, I'd like to see ground rules for their use formulated.

    Will there be sobriety tests? We have established limits for alcohol consumption when driving, what will be the rules for drugs? How do you test?

    I know this may surprise those who see me as an ultra-liberal here, but I also have my law enforcement past influencing me. I do agree our drug policy needs to be revised and largely decriminalized. But I also want to hear something about the real-world implementation & consequences.
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    Aug 13, 2013 12:55 AM GMT
    ART_DECO said
    freedomisntfree said
    msuNdc saidOne of the more sensible things that have been done under the Obama Admn. We all agree the drug laws are idiotic and senseless and they need to change.

    Thank you Holder.

    Probably, IMO, the best thing he's done.

    Folks in prison for 5 - 1- for smoking a little pot. Senseless and a tragic waste. Not saying this because I'm a pothead either as it's been 27 years since the last time for me, but that's me, and other should be free to decide differently.

    I'll make it a toss-up with Holder's (the Administration's) decision not to defend DOMA.

    My concern is drivers being impaired on the roads, and in other critical situations that impact the safety of others.

    We have the same issue with alcohol, but there's a century of precedent in social behaviors and public laws that regulate drinking in our modern high-speed world. Before drugs go legal, or become less illegal, I'd like to see ground rules for their use formulated.

    Will there be sobriety tests? We have established limits for alcohol consumption when driving, what will be the rules for drugs? How do you test?

    I know this may surprise those who see me as an ultra-liberal here, but I also have my law enforcement past influencing me. I do agree our drug policy needs to be revised and largely decriminalized. But I also want to hear something about the real-world implementation & consequences.


    "My concern is drivers being impaired on the roads, and in other critical situations that impact the safety of others."

    That's a given !!!! Pilots, train engineers, boat captains (I guess that would include Chrysler Imperials?), etc., where public safety would likely be at risk. How would we accurately and fairly test? The devils is in the details.
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    Aug 13, 2013 12:56 AM GMT
    Causing an accident is illegal regardless of sobriety or lack thereof.
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    Aug 13, 2013 1:01 AM GMT
    Promote Designated Drivers just like we do with alcohol.
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    Aug 13, 2013 1:03 AM GMT
    Is that folks want to be able to do weed or is it that too many people are being incarcerated that is fueling this debate. I am not anti weed but I don't see a street full of potheads as being a heaven on earth either.
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    Aug 13, 2013 1:11 AM GMT
    Myol saidIs that folks want to be able to do weed or is it that too many people are being incarcerated that is fueling this debate. I am not anti weed but I don't see a street full of potheads as being a heaven on earth either.


    It is that too many people are having their lives destroyed because they choose to use a drug. Not to mention the war on drugs is one of the most discriminating polices ever enacted in this country. You don't see drug raids in rich suburb areas but you see it in the poor inner cities. I can assure you drug use is higher in the rich subdivisions.
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    Aug 13, 2013 1:22 AM GMT
    BackToTop saidCausing an accident is illegal regardless of sobriety or lack thereof.

    Yes. But I'd rather PREVENT an accident, than assigning blame & punishments afterwards. Blame & punishment don't resurrect a lost life, nor repair a crippled body, erase pain & suffering, restore ruined property.

    I want to see irrational criminalization of many drug uses erased. But how do we construct protections for ourselves against irresponsible drug users? To me that's the real challenge.
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    Aug 13, 2013 1:38 AM GMT
    United States — all states impose penalties for driving with a BAC greater than 0.08[40] (down from 0.15% just a few decades previously.[41]). Even below those levels drivers can have civil liability and other criminal guilt (e.g., in Arizona driving impairment to any degree caused by alcohol consumption can be a civil or criminal offense in addition to other offenses at higher blood alcohol content levels)--from Wiki


    Tolerance for driving while impaired has decreased in recent decades. Treating pot more like alcohol isn't going to change our decreasing tolerance for driving while fucked-up no matter what the source.

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    Aug 13, 2013 1:42 AM GMT
    Myol saidIs that folks want to be able to do weed or is it that too many people are being incarcerated that is fueling this debate. I am not anti weed but I don't see a street full of potheads as being a heaven on earth either.


    The numbers imprisoned because of personal, recreational drug use is pretty staggering and expensive. Got to be a better way.
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    Aug 13, 2013 1:42 AM GMT
    BackToTop saidUnited States — all states impose penalties for driving with a BAC greater than 0.08[40] (down from 0.15% just a few decades previously.[41]). Even below those levels drivers can have civil liability and other criminal guilt (e.g., in Arizona driving impairment to any degree caused by alcohol consumption can be a civil or criminal offense in addition to other offenses at higher blood alcohol content levels)--from Wiki

    Tolerance for driving while impaired has decreased in recent decades. Treating pot more like alcohol isn't going to change our decreasing tolerance for driving while fucked-up no matter what the source.

    How do you measure drug use? It isn't just pot.
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    Aug 13, 2013 1:50 AM GMT
    I don't know. Maybe you don't. There are already many drugs that can't be detected by a breathalyzer.

    Will we soon have meters to measure Weed Breath? If we don't already have one it's only for lack of imagination, or buzz on the part of our engineers.

    Impaired driving is illegal and is going to be illegal. How we go about detecting impairment is for sober minds to determine.

    I'm having a glass of pinot grigio and not looking into this with any further depth, til tomorrow.
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    Aug 13, 2013 2:10 AM GMT
    This is another step in the direction of legalizing weed. I think that is a good thing. I worry about how it will affect other convictions for drugs that are far more dangerous and addictive.
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    Aug 13, 2013 2:14 AM GMT
    Wonderful. More paranoid potheads, junkies, coke heads, you name it, just what we need. Just wonderful. Those of us who choose to be responsible will get killed at random by irresponsible fools and it won't even be illegal. Imagine a heart surgeon bugging out during an operation? A bus driver racing to get his next fix? The possibilities for aggravation at best and mass murder and mayhem at worst are endless. All these possibilities made much more likely with decriminalization policies. The way I see it, the Obama administration is skirting it's constitutional obligation to enforce the law, and that is outrageous. icon_evil.gif
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    Aug 13, 2013 2:18 AM GMT
    Blakes7 saidWonderful. More paranoid potheads, junkies, coke heads, you name it, just what we need. Just wonderful. Those of us who choose to be responsible will get killed at random by irresponsible fools and it won't even be illegal. Imagine a heart surgeon bugging out during an operation? A bus driver racing to get his next fix? The possibilities for aggravation at best and mass murder and mayhem at worst are endless. All these possibilities made much more likely with decriminalization policies. The way I see it, the Obama administration is skirting it's constitutional obligation to enforce the law, and that is outrageous. icon_evil.gif


    You made some great points in this thread:

    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/3379359
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    Aug 13, 2013 2:22 AM GMT
    BackToTop saidI don't know. Maybe you don't. There are already many drugs that can't be detected by a breathalyzer.

    Will we soon have meters to measure Weed Breath? If we don't already have one it's only for lack of imagination, or buzz on the part of our engineers.

    Impaired driving is illegal and is going to be illegal. How we go about detecting impairment is for sober minds to determine.

    I'm having a glass of pinot grigio and not looking into this with any further depth, til tomorrow.

    I had some Pinot Grigio earlier today over a late lunch. icon_biggrin.gif

    But an established system is already in place, that can detect too much Pinot Grigio in me, and discourage me & others from driving while impaired. Before we liberalize drug use I want to know what system will likewise reduce the chances of drug-impaired drivers hitting my car head-on, and turning me into a hood ornament on some other guy's Toyota.

    But we'll talk more of this tomorrow, when the lovely effects of your Pinot have passed. icon_wink.gif