The Right’s Obamacare Boycott Will Only Hurt Conservatives

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Aug 13, 2013 5:47 PM GMT
    http://www.slate.com/articles/business/moneybox/2013/08/obamacare_boycott_conservative_leaders_are_only_going_to_hurt_conservatives.html

    My favorite zinger:
    Trying to trick people into not exploring the potential benefits of a new government program is a rather novel tactic in American politics, perhaps because it’s blatantly immoral.
  • GQjock

    Posts: 11649

    Aug 13, 2013 6:05 PM GMT
    Things that were or are blatantly immoral or against the best interest of Americans or for their own party never stopped them before
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Aug 13, 2013 8:09 PM GMT
    No matter what the right does, the left wing news media will say it hurts their cause. This is why most news in America today is little more than propaganda for the left.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Aug 13, 2013 11:08 PM GMT
    Go choke on your kreplach!!
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    Aug 13, 2013 11:12 PM GMT
    failscarf said
    Blakes7 saidNo matter what the right does, the left wing news media will say it hurts their cause. This is why most news in America today is little more than propaganda for the left.


    Im not understanding what you're getting at.


    Then re-read it or ask one of your friends over there to help you. It's quite clear.
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    Aug 13, 2013 11:22 PM GMT
    Much of what conservatives do does backfire, because they assume everyone thinks the same as they do. I'm confident that many of the anti-Obamacare protesters will be first to sign-up for the exchanges and take advantage of better healthcare.
  • musclmed

    Posts: 3284

    Aug 14, 2013 3:54 AM GMT
    Philibuster saidhttp://www.slate.com/articles/business/moneybox/2013/08/obamacare_boycott_conservative_leaders_are_only_going_to_hurt_conservatives.html

    My favorite zinger:
    Trying to trick people into not exploring the potential benefits of a new government program is a rather novel tactic in American politics, perhaps because it’s blatantly immoral.


    You do not need to trick anyone. Just the history of most government programs should send people running.

    I mean Max Baucus is just a right wing nut isnt he?
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    Aug 14, 2013 4:12 AM GMT
    musclmed said
    Philibuster saidhttp://www.slate.com/articles/business/moneybox/2013/08/obamacare_boycott_conservative_leaders_are_only_going_to_hurt_conservatives.html

    My favorite zinger:
    Trying to trick people into not exploring the potential benefits of a new government program is a rather novel tactic in American politics, perhaps because it’s blatantly immoral.


    You do not need to trick anyone. Just the history of most government programs should send people running.

    I mean Max Baucus is just a right wing nut isnt he?

    I assume you are aware of the context of the "train wreck" quote, and decided to mention it anyway. Cutting the entire budget to educate patients and providers about a new law that is deeply confusing is bound to create a train wreck.
  • musclmed

    Posts: 3284

    Aug 14, 2013 4:19 AM GMT
    I sure do.

    The law was written and devised in a quick fashion instead of in pieces, it was done for pure politics and political victory.

    Now you have a huge law with a moving target.

    The law was sold with certain CBO numbers, now the "education" part or need for more was left out.

    Its within congresses right to regulate that. And in fact if the TRUE cost of the bill was revealed, it would not have passed in the form that it did.




    Max DOESNT SEE ANY RESULTS YET.
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    Aug 14, 2013 4:27 AM GMT
    musclmed saidI sure do.

    The law was written and devised in a quick fashion instead of in pieces, it was done for pure politics and political victory.

    Now you have a huge law with a moving target.

    The law was sold with certain CBO numbers, now the "education" part or need for more was left out.

    Its within congresses right to regulate that. And in fact if the TRUE cost of the bill was revealed, it would not have passed in the form that it did.




    Max DOESNT SEE ANY RESULTS YET.


    If you understand the context of the quote, why would you even bring it up? Just to spread disinformation? Perhaps to trick people into not exploring the potential benefits of a new government program?
  • musclmed

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    Aug 14, 2013 4:33 AM GMT
    you just repeated yourself.

    Here is the source of the quote. He was describing the complexity of the law and failure of exchanges because of confusion.

    Whats the trick? taking a SLATE article as objective reporting or maybe listening to the actual tape of the Senator?

    Baucus was extremely critical of Sebelius for almost no results on clarifying issues for small buisness.

    And if these so called funds that Sebelius claims are needed are so integral to the law, then the Administration pulled off the biggest con job ever by claiming the bill saves money when actually most of all of what it will cost is yet to come.
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    Aug 14, 2013 4:37 AM GMT
    Philibuster said
    musclmed saidI sure do.

    The law was written and devised in a quick fashion instead of in pieces, it was done for pure politics and political victory.

    Now you have a huge law with a moving target.

    The law was sold with certain CBO numbers, now the "education" part or need for more was left out.

    Its within congresses right to regulate that. And in fact if the TRUE cost of the bill was revealed, it would not have passed in the form that it did.




    Max DOESNT SEE ANY RESULTS YET.



    If you understand the context of the quote, why would you even bring it up? Just to spread disinformation? Perhaps to trick people into not exploring the potential benefits of a new government program?


    If Romney had gotten in and trumpeted this Obamacare (he'd call it, er, Romneycare *winks*) None of the conservatives here would have a thing to say except defend it.

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    Aug 14, 2013 4:39 AM GMT
    musclmed saidyou just repeated yourself.

    Here is the source of the quote. He was describing the complexity of the law and failure of exchanges because of confusion.

    Whats the trick, taking a SLATE article as objective reporting or maybe listening to the actual tape of the Senator?


    I thought you said you understood the context of the quote. From what you said above, you don't. So which is it? Are you trying to mislead, or are you uninformed?
  • musclmed

    Posts: 3284

    Aug 14, 2013 4:42 AM GMT
    Philibuster said
    musclmed saidyou just repeated yourself.

    Here is the source of the quote. He was describing the complexity of the law and failure of exchanges because of confusion.

    Whats the trick, taking a SLATE article as objective reporting or maybe listening to the actual tape of the Senator?


    I thought you said you understood the context of the quote. From what you said above, you don't. So which is it? Are you trying to mislead, or are you uninformed?


    Yeah i do get it, and watched the video again. I guess those DEM underground email blasts only can go so far.


    So whats the context......?
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    Aug 14, 2013 4:49 AM GMT
    musclmed said
    Philibuster said
    musclmed saidyou just repeated yourself.

    Here is the source of the quote. He was describing the complexity of the law and failure of exchanges because of confusion.

    Whats the trick, taking a SLATE article as objective reporting or maybe listening to the actual tape of the Senator?


    I thought you said you understood the context of the quote. From what you said above, you don't. So which is it? Are you trying to mislead, or are you uninformed?


    Yeah i do get it, and watched the video again. I guess those DEM underground email blasts only can go so far.


    So whats the context......?

    Baucus raked Sebelius over the coals about a decision that cut the entire PR budget for implementation. That would turn Obamacare into a train wreck, which is what Republicans so desperately want.
  • musclmed

    Posts: 3284

    Aug 14, 2013 5:02 AM GMT
    Philibuster said
    musclmed said
    Philibuster said
    musclmed saidyou just repeated yourself.

    Here is the source of the quote. He was describing the complexity of the law and failure of exchanges because of confusion.

    Whats the trick, taking a SLATE article as objective reporting or maybe listening to the actual tape of the Senator?


    I thought you said you understood the context of the quote. From what you said above, you don't. So which is it? Are you trying to mislead, or are you uninformed?


    Yeah i do get it, and watched the video again. I guess those DEM underground email blasts only can go so far.


    So whats the context......?

    Baucus raked Sebelius over the coals about a decision that cut the entire PR budget for implementation. That would turn Obamacare into a train wreck, which is what Republicans so desperately want.


    so who trumpeted the law? Who is implementing it?

    “My main concern is that when I ask them for information about the navigators … that I don’t get anything back,” Baucus told reporters.

    Does it cost money to tell the Chairman of the Senate finance committee about the laws implementation? We are just to sit back and accept this as just the fault of being defunded?

    Who is tricking whom? it is infinitely complex, a work of legislative trickery with a BOGUS CBO score if the laws implementation did not take into account implementation.

    Its BS, they do not know what they are doing and have no answers.
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    Aug 14, 2013 5:29 AM GMT
    musclmed said

    so who trumpeted the law? Who is implementing it?

    “My main concern is that when I ask them for information about the navigators … that I don’t get anything back,” Baucus told reporters.

    Does it cost money to tell the Chairman of the Senate finance committee about the laws implementation? We are just to sit back and accept this as just the fault of being defunded?

    Who is tricking whom? it is infinitely complex, a work of legislative trickery with a BOGUS CBO score if the laws implementation did not take into account implementation.

    Its BS, they do not know what they are doing and have no answers.

    You pretend to think the PR budget is for telling Baucus about the law's implementation.

    You don't even know whether the CBO took into account the cost of implementing the law.

    You claim the law is too complex (to implement? to figure out? to work?).

    I'm gonna go out on a limb here and assume that you think we should not explore the potential benefits of this program.

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    Aug 14, 2013 5:39 AM GMT
    Blakes7 saidGo choke on your kreplach!!


    Truth hurts, eh?
  • musclmed

    Posts: 3284

    Aug 14, 2013 5:42 AM GMT
    Philibuster said
    musclmed said

    so who trumpeted the law? Who is implementing it?

    “My main concern is that when I ask them for information about the navigators … that I don’t get anything back,” Baucus told reporters.

    Does it cost money to tell the Chairman of the Senate finance committee about the laws implementation? We are just to sit back and accept this as just the fault of being defunded?

    Who is tricking whom? it is infinitely complex, a work of legislative trickery with a BOGUS CBO score if the laws implementation did not take into account implementation.

    Its BS, they do not know what they are doing and have no answers.

    You pretend to think the PR budget is for telling Baucus about the law's implementation.

    You don't even know whether the CBO took into account the cost of implementing the law.

    You claim the law is too complex (to implement? to figure out? to work?).

    I'm gonna go out on a limb here and assume that you think we should not explore the potential benefits of this program.



    Well we do not pass laws to explore them. If the law is being implemented incorrectly then its no ones fault but the Obama Admin and Sibelius.

    How do you know what I know? You seem to completely ignore the cost of the bill , the potential economic disaster and damage to the medical system, just to "explore".

    Baucus was scolding her and clearly pointing out if he cant get answers how can the people and how can throwing money at it accomplish it? Its not a funding problem if he cant get the answers. THEY DONT HAVE ANSWERS.

    I am going to go out on the limb your completely fixated on exploring , and not at all worried about the consequences.

    You mentioned its a trick for anyone to have reservations about this law, just the reservations and response by Sibelius is proof alone its not a "trick". Clearly debunked in its ballooning budget and fraudulent inaccurate CBO score given the requests by the administration and delays in implementation.
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    Aug 14, 2013 7:56 AM GMT
    GAMRican said
    Blakes7 saidGo choke on your kreplach!!


    Truth hurts, eh?


    What truth, this is banter.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Aug 14, 2013 8:37 AM GMT
    musclmed saidWell we do not pass laws to explore them. If the law is being implemented incorrectly then its no ones fault but the Obama Admin and Sibelius.
    The law is being implemented eagerly in states like California, Oregon, Maryland, Massachusetts and New York. That's a whole lot of people who will experience first hand the benefits of this program.

    How do you know what I know? You seem to completely ignore the cost of the bill , the potential economic disaster and damage to the medical system, just to "explore".
    You forgot to mention the damage to the insurance industry. I'm sure they appreciate the obfuscation and fear mongering of your sources. Did you hear that insurers in Oregon which had initially come in with high premium bids are now asking to resubmit with cheaper offerings in the face of competition? And you still haven't backed up your claim that the CBO did not account for the cost of implementation.

    Baucus was scolding her and clearly pointing out if he cant get answers how can the people and how can throwing money at it accomplish it? Its not a funding problem if he cant get the answers. THEY DONT HAVE ANSWERS.
    He was clearly pointing out that small businesses don't know about signups, exchanges, affordability rules, penalties. In other words, small businesses in his state don't know their role in implementation. You kinda made up the part about Baucus not knowing the answers.

    I am going to go out on the limb your completely fixated on exploring , and not at all worried about the consequences.
    I'm worried about the consequences for residents of states like Texas, Florida, and Alabama that are dragging their heels on implementation. And since a very large share of uninsured Americans live in those red states, this will be a real tragedy for the country

    You mentioned its a trick for anyone to have reservations about this law, just the reservations and response by Sibelius is proof alone its not a "trick". Clearly debunked in its ballooning budget and fraudulent inaccurate CBO score given the requests by the administration and delays in implementation.
    If you have access to Sibelius' response, why didn't you share it? Or did you make that up too?

    (Now I'm going back to bed. This is crazy.)
  • MikemikeMike

    Posts: 6932

    Aug 14, 2013 12:25 PM GMT
    CC form another thread:
    In Canada, there is an eight week wait to receive this procedure.

    Has anyone in the U.S. received this procedure to diagnose G.I.S.T.? If so, what was the wait time and cost of procedure?

    Please feel free to message me privately.



    No one wants Obamacare-government telling American's how long they must wait for testing and procedures that can save lives. It's why Canadian's come here for better health care!icon_idea.gif

    Mediocre medical care for all is Un-American! This makes our Great Country weak- something for nothing mentality.

    If it does go through I will pay out of pocket for anything I might need.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Aug 14, 2013 12:56 PM GMT
    "No one wants Obamacare-government telling American's how long they must wait for testing and procedures that can save lives. It's why Canadian's come here for better health care!"


    Forget the Russian Gays! How can we help our desperate Canadian brothers?

    MikemikeMike, have you got any statistics on just how bad things have gotten in Canada? The liberal-controlled Internet is giving me information that doesn't support your statement.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Aug 14, 2013 3:11 PM GMT
    MikeMikeMike said, "CC form another thread:
    In Canada, there is an eight week wait to receive this procedure."

    You should have read the rest of that topic. You also need to consider some Provincial gov'ts and even some of the current feds would like nothing more than to see our system crash and burn. Big corps have been salivating over the Canadian sheep ready to be fleeced for a good number of years now.

    PS so tell me Mike, how long is the US wait for this procedure if you're poor and can't afford the insurance, or poor and have insurance but no money for the deductible?

    Up here, if you have the buckaroos, you can come to BC wait 1 -3 weeks and get it done at a private clinic. Wait times for the health system, on the other hand, can be UP to 8 weeks, and is determined by severity of symptoms and likelihood of whether existing symptoms point to necessity of procedure.
  • GQjock

    Posts: 11649

    Aug 14, 2013 3:22 PM GMT
    meninlove said MikeMikeMike said, "CC form another thread:
    In Canada, there is an eight week wait to receive this procedure."

    You should have read the rest of that topic. You also need to consider some Provincial gov'ts and even some of the current feds would like nothing more than to see our system crash and burn. Big corps have been salivating over the Canadian sheep ready to be fleeced for a good number of years now.


    I am tired of hearing about comparisons between our system and the European system or the Canadian system

    If you deal with or have had experience with the American system it is fatally flawed and needs to be scrapped because people are dying and receiving insufficient care BECAUSE THEY CANNOT AFFORD IT
    IT does not matter who has the best surgery for cancer rates or the best stents for cardiac care WHEN THE PEOPLE WHO NEED NEED IT CANT PAY FOR IT