Are we to blame for Prop 8 passing?

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Nov 16, 2008 7:13 AM GMT
    A thought...

    Many of my friends decided they didn't have to vote. They weren't at all worried about Prop 8. They have accepting families. They have a job where they can be out. Their parents aren't going to try and take their homes away if their partner dies. "Change will happen eventually" is their motto. Is has to right?

    Then all of a sudden... we go backward. All of a sudden these same friends are emailing me asking what the hell happened. They couldn't believe it. What can they do to help now? Now??!! A bit late!

    I find some of my gay friends exist in a place of acceptance. But don't realise there is the rest of the world that need civil, legal and social protection. It is an apathy that is hurting their own kind.

    What are your thoughts?

    - www.gaytruth.info
  • EricLA

    Posts: 3461

    Nov 16, 2008 10:05 AM GMT
    There are many reasons Prop 8 passed, but sure one has to wonder if the 1000s energized now were as energized weeks and months ago, whether it would have still passed.

    I don't blame these people. We here in California have had a lot of our victories come relatively easy, with seemingly little effort on our part. We didn't know the amount of work that went into them.

    I worked for a national gay org for several years up until two years ago. Before I left a major donor who is a major player in film wrote an op-ed suggesting our community had won a lot of our major battles. I don't know where he got that idea, but working for a gay media organization, I got to see what's printed or broadcast in other parts of the country. Hell, there are big chunks of California where I bet Mr. Media wouldn't feel safe holding hands with his partner.

    But we got complacent because many of us had it pretty easy. We haven't had to fight for something in a while.

    Well, this was a wake-up call. And I have to say this loss has a silver lining. Because I would never have imagined the 1000s of people across the country and in other parts of the world participating in the rally held Saturday about Prop 8. One of the signs I read is relevant here: "If you didn't want your kids to know about gays, you should have just given us marriage."
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    Nov 16, 2008 4:00 PM GMT
    forkintheroad saidA thought...

    Many of my friends decided they didn't have to vote. They weren't at all worried about Prop 8. They have accepting families. They have a job where they can be out. Their parents aren't going to try and take their homes away if their partner dies. "Change will happen eventually" is their motto. Is has to right?

    Then all of a sudden... we go backward. All of a sudden these same friends are emailing me asking what the hell happened. They couldn't believe it. What can they do to help now? Now??!! A bit late!

    I find some of my gay friends exist in a place of acceptance. But don't realise there is the rest of the world that need civil, legal and social protection. It is an apathy that is hurting their own kind.

    What are your thoughts?

    - www.gaytruth.info


    Are we to blame, not really as it's an act of bigotry disguised as democracy. BUT, we certainly didn't stop it! As such, our community needs to take some responsibility for this and move on. Your friends are exactly what I was worried about and I worry the show of anger that is only hurting our cause, may be a result of guilt for not doing enough. No matter where the blame for losing the battle should be directed, we will win the war!
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Nov 16, 2008 4:04 PM GMT
    Let history decide the blame and let the present decide the solution.
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    Nov 16, 2008 4:15 PM GMT


    Hoo boy, from wwwwaaayyyy up here we blame, oh yes we do. We blame the governments there that allow a human right, given by the legal system, to be removed at the whim of the general public.

    There are many ignorant people in the general public. That's a constant that will likely never go away, but we hope will lessen as education replaces hyperbole.

    Just imagine what could have happened if interracial marriage had been put to a public referendum vote in the early 60s or late 50s. No Barak Obamas.

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    Nov 16, 2008 5:06 PM GMT
    Honestly... I think the religous context needs to leave our gonvernment in order for us to succeed. I think marriage should be a religous term and ALL UNIONS, gay or straight should be an official civil union... leave marriage to religion. As long as the rights are completely equal I don't care what it's called. My partner and I are planning our wedding for next jear, in Jersey, where it is recognized... and the rights are the same as straight couples... even adoption rights are forthcoming in this state...so I have no concern about what it is called... I think we have done ourselves a disservice reaching for the same name thinking that is what would make it equal... it's only a name. Leave marriage for the churches and grant us the rights we deserve, no matter what it's called.
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    Nov 16, 2008 5:29 PM GMT

    Hey lizard7x6,

    Here in Canada marriage is a civil union - you are required to get a license to make any church marriage legal.

    Last we checked, this was the same in the US. Why do so many think the word 'marriage ' is a church invention?

    Oh well, if you read back through the topics, you'll see this argument has been back-and-forthed a million times.
    Just look North...

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Nov 16, 2008 5:39 PM GMT
    McGay saidLet history decide the blame and let the present decide the solution.


    Could not have stated this more perfectly.
  • DCguy2001

    Posts: 314

    Nov 16, 2008 5:42 PM GMT
    Many of my friends decided they didn't have to vote.

    icon_rolleyes.gif You should ALWAYS vote. Democracy is great...until you start taking things for granted.
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    Nov 16, 2008 6:29 PM GMT
    I hear you all.

    Although with the marriage thing... in South Africa it is much like in Canada. Marriage is legal for gay and straight people. Regardless of religious inclination. They figured calling it something else somehow implies it is of lesser value, and that homosexuality is wrong.

    But yes... let us not take things for granted! Especially when a country in Africa is already so far ahead wrt equal rights!
  • redheaded_dud...

    Posts: 408

    Nov 16, 2008 6:36 PM GMT
    Okay, I know the issue is a serious one, but did y'all see this on SNL?



    :-)
  • DCEric

    Posts: 3713

    Nov 16, 2008 9:12 PM GMT
    Yes. The gay community is to blame. As I said in the other thread, getting out and telling people that they knew about how important this is, was the key. Instead we donated, and gave money to groups that did little more than run TV Ads.

    How often do you sit and watch TV ads? Yeah, neither do heterosexuals.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Nov 16, 2008 9:20 PM GMT
    The one to blame is the no on prop 8 campaign.

    Every issue campaign is the same, external forces are not to blame. The fact is they did not raise enough money, they did not do enough voter education, they did not do enough GOTV, they did not do enough to get the measure defeated.

    But, as I have said before, the blame game isn't constructive. We need to analyze to find out where the campaign went wrong and improve upon that.
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    Nov 18, 2008 11:57 PM GMT
    To clarify something, meninlove,
    in the US straight couples apply for a "Marriage Liscence" at their local municipalities before they have any kind of ceremony. Some jurisdictions have civil unions for all, but most file as married. In New Jersey it's two separate sets of paperwork... I know this because my partner and I are planning our wedding and have gone through this.

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    Nov 19, 2008 3:33 PM GMT
    Over here in the UK prop8 isn’t even mentioned in the news sadly I only found out accidently on the web. I guess over here in the UK we are lucky gay marriage is allowed no matter where you live in the UK. Also we allow gays in the army air force and navy from what i know they don’t allow that in the USA shame. Also one of our chief police commanders (don’t rely no his proper title) is also gay and marred and I must admit i guess i take it for granted... I’m sure the USA will catch up soon and follow the lead.

    but good luck over there with your continuering fight
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    Nov 19, 2008 3:44 PM GMT
    forkintheroad saidA thought...

    Many of my friends decided they didn't have to vote. They weren't at all worried about Prop 8. They have accepting families. They have a job where they can be out. Their parents aren't going to try and take their homes away if their partner dies. "Change will happen eventually" is their motto. Is has to right?

    Then all of a sudden... we go backward. All of a sudden these same friends are emailing me asking what the hell happened. They couldn't believe it. What can they do to help now? Now??!! A bit late!

    I find some of my gay friends exist in a place of acceptance. But don't realise there is the rest of the world that need civil, legal and social protection. It is an apathy that is hurting their own kind.

    What are your thoughts?

    - www.gaytruth.info


    I can agree with that. Omaha's gay community is full of people like that. And if you look at the African-American community's vote, obviously we are not getting to them enough.
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    Nov 19, 2008 3:46 PM GMT



    ...as for blame, we say NO. All gays did was trust the humanity of their fellow man. They were publicly betrayed so does that mean they should never trust again? Certainly not. But this time, gays will take a stand and say trust must now be earned.

    Go after your governments, gentlemen, they're the real culprits here, and need to be purged of their contradictory religious influence. They are supposed to be non-religious.

    Once again it boils down to the world loving the American people and despising their governments. Maybe that can now change with your new Prez!!


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    Nov 19, 2008 3:52 PM GMT
    meninlove said ...as for blame, we say NO. All gays did was trust the humanity of their fellow man. They were publicly betrayed so does that mean they should never trust again? Certainly not. But this time, gays will take a stand and say trust must now be earned.

    Go after your governments, gentlemen, they're the real culprits here, and need to be purged of their contradictory religious influence. They are supposed to be non-religious.

    Once again it boils down to the world loving the American people and despising their governments. Maybe that can now change with your new Prez!!
    Thanks guys for saying that. We are supposed to be able to trust our government to protect us from persecution. That is what it is about. The government cannot be neutral and allow itself to be overly influenced by religious organizations especially when they target a minority group of citizens.