This started as a suicide note.

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Aug 20, 2013 3:46 PM GMT
    (And I haven't quite yet decided for or against the act)

    It became a blog post I need mainstream Christianity to become aware of.

    Printed, it's the size of a short book - 165 pages. I very carefully build a case against the religion I grew up in while simultaneously defending my belief in Jesus.

    It is offensive: it is not for the sensitive, it is not for the faint-hearted. But it is for everybody. It is me answering Christianity on Christianity's own terms.

    In the post, I claim to only be coming out now. RJers will know me from the past. I'd slipped back into the closet (an easy act for me) but this is my final exit. Maybe in more ways than one.

    Here's the link.

    http://suicidewritesnotestoo.wordpress.com



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    Aug 20, 2013 4:04 PM GMT
    the_blogger said(And I haven't quite yet decided for or against the act)

    An act for yourself, or as a philosophical proposition?

    I scanned your treatise, and I couldn't quite determine on what side of the argument you fall. Being a practical guy, I tend to run out of patience with appeals to religion, which are rife in your paper.

    References to religion for its influence on some people can make practical sense to me, but as an argument in itself brings us into theological areas that fail to persuade me. Believing as I do that religion is just another human construct, so that we end up seeing reflections of reflections of our own selves, not of any Divine revelation & truth.
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    Aug 20, 2013 4:04 PM GMT
    Are you saying you are contemplating suicide?
  • AMoonHawk

    Posts: 11406

    Aug 20, 2013 4:39 PM GMT
    Wouldn't it be better to actually become a gay christian preacher and preach your belief then to just write about it and kill yourself and have nobody read it. You can't change the world with a silent cry.
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    Aug 20, 2013 5:47 PM GMT
    Dude seriously, a religious man like yourself cannot be justifying such nonsense. one my question is what are u trying yo prove? two why are holding on to something that u dnt agree with? Hmmm!!!!!!!!. Look dnt be a coward, most of us in RJ have been religious at one point, and we have all walk through what u are walking through. U are not special, this situation is not special to u. so suck it up, lift your head and take those punches like a man, we all had too. Stop the pity party. Im not trying to be rude but u need to here this. Whether or not u kill yourself, u will always be gay on earth and in heaven. Accept finish and klaar
  • MikeW

    Posts: 6061

    Aug 20, 2013 7:10 PM GMT
    It is always disturbing to see young men contemplating throwing their lives away based on the confusion in their heads.

    We humans are born mostly blank slates. Not much in the instinct department, but, like our sexual orientation for example, there are a few innate qualities and traits.

    So at its basic level the organism and its capacity for thought, feeling, perception -- that is who we are, fundamentally. Beyond that, all these thoughts in our heads, what we believe to be true about ourselves and the world around us, are learned and totally dependent on where and when we were born.

    Imagine how you would still be you if you were born somewhere else or some other time but you would think, feel and believe about everything very differently depending on the circumstances. You'd have a different language, a different culture, a different religion -- and this other one would seem as "true" or "natural" to you as the one you have does now.

    So you have instincts and desires that are at odds with your cultural programming, including the religion that you've been immersed in your whole life. This is pretty much the case with every gay man. And there is a struggle going on between your basic instincts on one hand and what you've been conditioned and programmed to believe about them on the other.

    Apparently you've written this lengthy treatise as an attempt to figure it all out and express it to others. But can you figure it out from within the system of belief that is causing the conflicts in the first place? Even if you can, will what you say or think about it make any significant difference to anyone else?

    At a certain point I had to let go of 99.99% of the religion I was raised in. The .01% that I kept was very simple: God is Love, Grace and Mercy. So far as who we are or what we do in life, God really doesn't care very much so long as we try our best to manifest the truly good stuff that God is. All the rest of it just doesn't matter and, when you think about it, all the pain and evils of this world would melt away if people would simply let go of all the 'rules' they've filled themselves up with and live with the simple idea that we're here to manifest and experience as much of the good stuff as we can.

    Killing yourself would not be an expression of God's Love. Living your life could be. Not saying it would necessarily be 'easy' but it isn't impossible. Be the good stuff as much as you can and just let the rest of it take care of itself.
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    Aug 20, 2013 8:53 PM GMT
    It takes a while to square homosexuality and religion. You have to come to a place in your mind and heart where you realize that you are not perfect and never will be, and neither is anyone else. Straight people have many, many sins also. Is there really any big difference between us then? Can we still try and be good people, be thankful to God and be grateful for what's good in our lives? I'm no religious "expert", but I have done research in the past. To the best of my knowledge, which I admit is limited, the only UNforgivable sin is satan worship. So unless you join Antoine Le Vey's church of satan, we are ALL in the same position. None of us know God's plan for each of us, as annoying as that certainly is. Just live your life, yes you certainly can believe in and worship God through Jesus and be gay at the same time. If straight people are allowed to go to church and synagogue with affairs, divorces, crimes and God Knows what else in their lives, we can, too. The Bible talks A LOT more about divorce than it does about homosexuality. Look how divorce is as common as brown eyes these days. If I'm wrong, then anyone who divorces is wrong, too, and should go back to their original spouses, and condemn later children as bastards. See where I'm going with this?
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    Aug 21, 2013 3:28 AM GMT
    39
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    Aug 21, 2013 4:59 AM GMT
    I hope that you choose to live every day of your life. Death already comes so soon. Why rush it?

    You'll be surprised when you look back on your life and realize what you would have missed if you had decided to take your own life.

    I know. I've been at that precipice. I can now look back and say that I would have missed a LOT.
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    Aug 21, 2013 5:22 AM GMT
    Let me tell you that I've been where you were at, being raised traditional Christian, there was I time I didn't think that I could even live with the feelings I was having. Being gay and having faith are both part of who I am, so I had to live with both. Taking your life would be the worse way out, you'd be losing a lot of potential happiness.
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    Aug 21, 2013 7:05 AM GMT
    This is Day 39. I have already set into motion the course of events
    required for me to die at the end of the 40 days. The longer I let
    that course of events run, the more difficult it will be for me or
    anyone else to stop it. By the 40th day the effects will possibly be
    irreversible.

    Thank you for participating and witnessing this, guys. I know that
    some of you mean well, but there are those of you who don't, and don't
    want to, mean anything at all.

    I'm not saying this in anger, but just as an observation:

    Many of the responses typed here show that the respondents probably
    typed more words in response to what I wrote than the number of words they read in the
    blog.

    I do not see that anybody has picked up the perspective I am
    trying to make the public aware of. The respondents are basing their
    responses more on what they anticipate my blog says than on what it
    actually does say. The mind boggles - why reply on a thread if you
    don't want to know what's happening? Then again, that's your choice so
    don't let me stop you. If that's how you make yourself feel better
    about yourself, then please. By all means. "Ah, he's so condescending,
    pay no attention to him."

    I don't care if this begins and ends in absolute obscurity. I've got
    39 days left.

    Many of these responses tell me that a.) it's bad to commit suicide,
    and b.) I shouldn't commit suicide.

    I've been told that it is philosophically impossible to move from an
    "is" to an "ought." That "it is bad to commit suicide" doesn't tell
    me that I ought not to do it, unless someone leverages from what is,
    what ought to be. I have already listed the conditions required for me
    not to commit suicide. Meaning that I will not commit suicide if, and
    only if, I believe that the perspective I have put out there has been
    disseminated and understood and has saturated mainstream Christianity.
    For me to ask people to agree with it possibly violates their
    consciences; it is spiritual blackmail. I only want them to be aware.

    "What you're doing is wrong, weak, pathetic, counter-productive,
    you'll go to hell," etc. So? That is all on the "is" side of the
    equation. I haven't gotten a single factor on the "ought" side.

    Guys, this is a protest suicide. This is activism. This is something
    very, very important to me and no one, by dismissing it, will make it
    any less important to me only more. It is so important and personal
    precisely because it doesn't matter to any one else that I personally
    know in real life.

    Not a single disparaging comment has the slightest power to move me
    from my stance. In fact, they only spur me on so please continue
    writing elaborate criticisms without knowing what I'm doing. It's
    back-handed support, but it's more support than I've gotten from most
    people I know in my personal life.

    I protest the injustices happening to gay people especially here in
    South Africa. We recently had 2 highly publicized gay weddings and 3
    anti-gay incidents.

    You guys there are thrilled with DOMA being overthrown. I'm thrilled
    for you! We also have gay marriage and gay rights, but mostly on
    paper.

    But as a whole, in real life attitudes are worsening (unless you live
    in some sheltered areas of South Africa) and I'm taking the church to
    task for that because they've played a pivotal role in the shape of
    the world as we have it. As long as the church isn't aware of what
    it's doing, the hatred will keep returning.

    If nobody has engaged the perspective I've written about then I will
    end my life. "Oh, that's so stupid, that's so gonna achieve the
    opposite of what you're aiming for, etc."

    So? If I haven't seen results in 40 days, I'm killing myself. If it
    takes 41 days and I'm not around, that doesn't change the parameters -
    I have said 40 days and that won't change until someone gives me a
    good philosophical reason for me to change it. That it would have been
    better for me to stay alive and change minds in the longer run - that
    "would have" leaves me cold; it is not an "ought." Not only that, it
    reinforces my choice not to move from the "is" to the "ought" because
    by showing me just how long it takes to get through to people, it
    vindicates my stubbornness and increases my resolve, results be
    damned.

    I'm begging you, for your own dignity - don't give me a reason to
    stick around past 40 days, unless and until you've read my blog and
    passed it on.

    http://suicidewritesnotestoo.wordpress.com

    God bless.
  • Webster666

    Posts: 9217

    Aug 21, 2013 7:13 AM GMT
    It's okay to have suicide on your list of things to do.
    Just try everything else, first.
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    Aug 21, 2013 7:17 AM GMT
    Ok skimmed the blog and I suggest, don't hang around, your mind seems made up, why not just get it over and done with?

    Self indulgent, self inflated and a life that is totally a waste of time.
    Just another mentally ill young gay man ending it all cause hes weak and insecure. Banging on about god and other irrelevant garbage.

    Don't bother blogging about it, no one will care and no one will remember you when you're gone. Waste of time all round. Friends of mine who ended it all aren't remembered and if so the reasons they did it for were passing and not eternal, unlike the result of their suicide.

    Protest?! my arse
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    Aug 21, 2013 7:31 AM GMT
    Life can mean more if you make it mean more.

    http://www.wikihow.com/Learn-Anger-Management
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    Aug 21, 2013 7:50 AM GMT
    AMoonHawk saidWouldn't it be better to actually become a gay christian preacher and preach your belief then to just write about it and kill yourself and have nobody read it. You can't change the world with a silent cry.


    this
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    Aug 21, 2013 8:06 AM GMT
    Dude I am sorry but I think you are just an online troll. This seems too.. well... too.. Trollish...

    Im not going to go back and forth with you I am just going to tell you how it is

    You Are Going To Hell if you kill yourself.. no way out, its for forever, the most tragic death you can think of will not be as bad as a millisecond in Hell

    You are making me and everyone else mad, sense caring wont help you then then I will show you Tough love you crazy trollish bastard

    It is a Fact you have mental problems because you are either just a Troll or Really would kill yourself

    You seem to be ok with becoming Just a number and not a heard voice... Yes No One Really heard you.. I Read most None of what you said like the rest of the people here. If you all of a sudden stop posting, I and everyone else will just assume you were a committed troll who quit this profile and went on to the next one to make it seem like the Dirty Deed was actually done. Look back Everyone either said Skimmed or made it obvious they didn't read what you had typed at all because they didn't make a single reference to your web link.. Heck! I haven't even clicked it and I wont.. Why does a soon to be dead mans word, Who I don't even know, mean Anything to me... Its simple it doesn't. Your just being a BIG DAMN Drama Queen.

    I have been through some heavy shit at just 19 but I am already Stronger than you Dude, chill ( -_-)

    Your life is not nearly as interesting or important enough Yet to tell everyone you are going to kill yourself lol PLEEEEEAAASSEE!!!!

    Try actually becoming a Somebody THEN Kill Yourself IF you still want to... Tell us all about it in your famous last Blog spread All across the internet (cause it wont be now, your a nobody black person) In True Drama queen style. THEN KILL YOURSELF!!!!!!!!!!

    Give the world something to think about if even for a second... cause right now.. well ... Your a joke icon_confused.gif
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    Aug 21, 2013 9:26 AM GMT
    What's going on here?
    MR Blogger? Come on!!

    .. This is such a tasteless,barbaric psychological tactic.

    This would be the equivalent of killing yourself in the drive through window at Burger King.

    "Why did he do it?"
    "He couldn't have it his way"

    Wouldn't it be smarter to use your blogs to call attention to the issues affecting you as opposed to shifting the primary focus on YOU?

    If you need some attention.. This is not the way!

    Personally i'd give you a pair of listening ears, a giant HUG followed by a massive spanking.





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    Aug 22, 2013 10:42 AM GMT
    I actually intend to read this persons treatise on Christianity and take a shot to see if I could prevent his suicide, but I'm actually going to procrastinate on it. So you say you have 39, or rather 38 days left, right? I'll fully read it by day 20, and hopefully before that I could ask you some good questions first, but not right now... But I could say this though...that I won't as much be addressing the actual topic of suicide, and will actually focus on your religious worldview and your relationship with it. I'm a Hellenic pagan, but I don't think you'll be interested in any of that, and I'll simply discuss your interpretation and understanding of Christian concepts and scripture.
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    Aug 22, 2013 10:43 AM GMT
    And on the actual topic of suicide...I hold many views on it, but may never want to express them...
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    Aug 22, 2013 11:33 AM GMT
    Unnamed6 saidI actually intend to read this persons treatise on Christianity and take a shot to see if I could prevent his suicide, but I'm actually going to procrastinate on it. So you say you have 39, or rather 38 days left, right? I'll fully read it by day 20, and hopefully before that I could ask you some good questions first, but not right now... But I could say this though...that I won't as much be addressing the actual topic of suicide, and will actually focus on your religious worldview and your relationship with it. I'm a Hellenic pagan, but I don't think you'll be interested in any of that, and I'll simply discuss your interpretation and understanding of Christian concepts and scripture.


    Quite wrong. Hellenic paganism is a springboard for a lot of themes I employ, but thanks
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    Aug 22, 2013 11:34 AM GMT
    Unnamed6 saidAnd on the actual topic of suicide...I hold many views on it, but may never want to express them...


    Please don't hold back.
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    Aug 22, 2013 1:25 PM GMT
    I do remember you. Your posts were always intelligent and interesting to read. I'm really surprised at this post.

    I hope you do not go through with this mission you are on. I think you have a great deal more to offer to the world than you realize.

    I will tell you that I will not read your link, nor will I propagate it.

    I won't be a party to someone trying to glorify suicide, and in essence promoting this exercise to others.

    There is nothing brave or effective in this act. It would be far braver and more effective to live, and be a part of finding a real solution to the problems faced by the LGBT communities around the world. You have decided to take the easy way out.

    There are gays that are being beaten and tortured in areas all over the world who continue their fight for human rights, and a better world to live in. I wonder what they would say to someone who so recklessly throws away their own life.

    By taking your life you will simply be reducing the number of soldiers available to fight these battles. You will have allowed those truly evil people to win. You will have shown them that even you do not care enough about your life to stand and fight. What you don't seem to understand is that you are doing exactly what they wish all of us would do.

    I truly hope you are able to recognize the flaws in your plan, and decide to be a real part of the solution. Not just some wanna-be martyr whose life will only be remembered and mourned by those who loved him. Those are the only ones that will truly be affected by this selfish act.

    There are far better ways to be a force for change in the world. I hope you recognize this, and avail yourself of those opportunities. Young gays need real heroes as role models not people who threaten to kill themselves to force people to read their words.
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    Aug 22, 2013 2:36 PM GMT
    the_blogger; you will only silence your own voice, that is supposed to be speaking.

    God cannot be contained in a book, or explained thoroughly or well by ancient peoples. It's like catching the wind in a bottle.
    There's much to explore, and you haven't done it all yet.
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    Aug 22, 2013 2:48 PM GMT


    Had you pulled the plug even one day ago, you wouldn't have said this right here on RJ,

    "Successful Christian discipleship is holistically loving God,
    holistically loving people and holistically loving creation. It is freedom from the mindsets and structures of the world and of the Law."

    You can't know who will read it and the effect it will have or not have. I can tell you that I read it and agree. And I have a request.
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    Aug 22, 2013 3:45 PM GMT
    Im not a psychologist. You should book an appointment tomorrow(if you are still around) with an actual professional who can help you out with your issues. You dont seem to currently have the proper mental stability to take care of yourself so please seek help.