Yep....I Congratulate the Mormons..

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    Nov 18, 2008 4:15 AM GMT
    They worked within our system. They were organized. They knew the rules and followed them. They had a different opinion......They got it done........


    This issue will not disappear. The question is, how organized will people who disagree with the recent election sadness be, when the issue comes up gain.

    Instead of boycott lists, chants of outrage and sorrow, why not take lead from the Mormons?
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    Nov 18, 2008 3:55 PM GMT
    I won't congratulate any bigotry. icon_rolleyes.gif oh, and why don't we celebrate the holocaust too! How efficient it was! ***








    Just because a system of propaganda and discrimination is efficient does not mean it should be congratulated. Not to say prop 8 is the same as the gay holocaust, but the means of lies and propaganda against a minority group can lead to far worse. For more information about the gay holocaust see the following link .. http://www.ushmm.org/museum/exhibit/online/hsx/
    ***look at the video on Paragraph 175 (above link) and how that led to the horrible persecution of Homosexuals. It basically stripped civil rights for people guilty of homosexuality. From there things got much worse for them
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_persecution_of_homosexuals
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violence_against_LGBT_people
  • swimbikerun

    Posts: 2835

    Nov 18, 2008 3:57 PM GMT
    ActiveAndFit saidI won't congratulate any bigotry. icon_rolleyes.gif oh, and why don't we celebrate the holocaust too! How efficient it was!
    Lol! And the point goes to ActiveAndFit! Oh snap bitch!
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    Nov 18, 2008 3:59 PM GMT
    ActiveAndFit saidI won't congratulate any bigotry. icon_rolleyes.gif oh, and why don't we celebrate the holocaust too! How efficient it was!



    ha, thread over.
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    Nov 18, 2008 4:15 PM GMT
    blinktwice4y said
    ActiveAndFit saidI won't congratulate any bigotry. icon_rolleyes.gif oh, and why don't we celebrate the holocaust too! How efficient it was!



    ha, thread over.



    No, thread not over..... If gay people and supporters had mounted the same organized, financed and well thought out plan concerning Prop 8, and if we won, we would be proud and victorious and we would have worked the system just like the Mormons.

    I congratulate their effort, not their views. This is what this country is all about. Freedom of speech and freedom to asemble and get a majority to pass a law.

    So no, thread not over. Instead of getting vindictive and licking our wounds, what will YOU do next time, when he issue comes up again?

    Spend countless hours planning your costume and socializing activities and march in a parade?,,,,,,and later meet your friends for more socializing? I bet many Prop 8 supporters were up late at night working the phones and gathering support.
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    Nov 18, 2008 4:32 PM GMT
    KissingPro said
    blinktwice4y said
    ActiveAndFit saidI won't congratulate any bigotry. icon_rolleyes.gif oh, and why don't we celebrate the holocaust too! How efficient it was!



    ha, thread over.



    No, thread not over..... If gay people and supporters had mounted the same organized, financed and well thought out plan concerning Prop 8, and if we won, we would be proud and victorious and we would have worked the system just like the Mormons.

    I congratulate their effort, not their views. This is what this country is all about. Freedom of speech and freedom to asemble and get a majority to pass a law.

    So no, thread not over. Instead of getting vindictive and licking our wounds, what will YOU do next time, when he issue comes up again?

    March in a parade?



    a church sticking its head out in state issues is not what this country is all about.

    read your constitution and then make that argument.

    my plan is the same is it has been all along, once i get a majority of people to stop drinking the jesus juice we can get on with real issues.


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    Nov 18, 2008 4:37 PM GMT
    We should raise 25 million and donate it all to some amazing charities and medical research and environmental organizations - all of which would get national attention.

    They (the morons) can spend their millions on more nasty TV ads.

    Who the better community is will eventually shine through....

    BUT..until them, I will boycott and protest and hope all gays, everywhere don't spend shit this holiday season. Ask for no gifts, if anything ask that gifts be dontation sent to HRC, or Sierra Club, or Greenpeace, etc. Give no gifts, just have friends over for dinner, or give them gift cards from gay friendly and gay owned businesses. Or donate to a cause in someone's name.

    Our buying power is the icing on the economy. We have so much more power than we realize and we should all be cutting back and researching on who not to buy from and support.

    See no movies, buy no clothes, no new car, spend only on what you need and from a select list. Travel and support only gay friendly and supportive areas......And keep it up, not just for a day, but for months.
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    Nov 18, 2008 4:52 PM GMT
    Why should we congratulate a church taking an active role in deciding out governments policies?

    Also, why should we congratulate them on LYING in their campaign? What ever happened to not bearing false witness against your neighbor?

    Honestly, some people...
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    Nov 18, 2008 5:03 PM GMT
    My intention here is not to derail conversation about it, but to show that just because something it done "democratically" does not make it right or good. Democracy can never fail!! Or can it? Here is an example of how something that is legal and democratic can still be wrong.

    http://www.schoolshistory.org.uk/hitlerssuccesses.htmWhy did people support Hitler and the Nazi party? Hitler was incredibly successful at gaining support. This section looks at the appeal and successes of Hitler and the Nazi party.
    ...
    The failure of the Putsch led Hitler to realise that the only way he would achieve power was through democratic, legal, means. As soon as the Putsch was over Hitler set about reorganising the party to enable such a turn around in the parties fortunes.
    ...
    The party played on historic fears and complaints with great effect.
    ..
    Use of Propaganda, the radio, posters and film shows, was groundbreaking.
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    Nov 18, 2008 8:58 PM GMT
    KissingPro saidThey worked within our system. They were organized. They knew the rules and followed them.


    There is a very serious question regarding whether they followed the rules governing religious & non-profit organizations engaging in political campaigns. Plus, as has been already noted here, they lied and cheated.

    If this is your criteria for "working within our system" for which you offer them your congratulations, then you are no better than they are.
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    Nov 18, 2008 9:05 PM GMT
    Red_Vespa saidIf this is your criteria for "working within our system" for which you offer them your congratulations, then you are no better than they are.


    Exactly. If working within the system means pandering to the basest human fears, and fanning those fears by exagerrating them...yes, kudos, not only to the Mormons, but to the Catholics and the evangelical Christian black churches. They were all in on that ad campaign.

    I say it backfired on them. I have a feeling that we are concentrating on the Yes vote. Concentrate on the No vote. Here's my hypothesis, after talking to some conservative Republicans who voted No on 8. They were outraged by the way these religions "used the system".

    How about this, it was a draw, in terms of the campaign, on the effect of that money for Prop 8?

    How about this too....it means they will ultimately lose...because more and more people are beginning to realize what a result of hate this vote was.
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    Nov 19, 2008 5:44 AM GMT
    ActiveAndFit saidI won't congratulate any bigotry. icon_rolleyes.gif oh, and why don't we celebrate the holocaust too! How efficient it was!


    ActiveAndFit you are a fucking retard. How dare you compare redefining marriage to mass genocide. Has a single homo been tricked/ forced into slave labor till starvation, infection, or dehydration kills him? Has a single homo been used as a lab rat to see what's the most efficient way of sterilizing gays so that they can't reproduce. Why don't you get your bitch ass on the next flight to DC and go check out the Holocaust museum. If you have the funds you should also try the Birkenau and Auschwitz concentration camps in Poland. I've been to all 3 locations and I have no reservations in telling you to go to hell. How dare you compare something as trivial as Prop 8 to something so horrific as the Holocaust. Get a fucking life you prick. Countless men, women, and children died and you would dare rank Prop 8 in the same category. You sick fuck icon_evil.gif.
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    Nov 19, 2008 5:58 AM GMT
    slapaho18 said
    ActiveAndFit saidI won't congratulate any bigotry. icon_rolleyes.gif oh, and why don't we celebrate the holocaust too! How efficient it was!

    ActiveAndFit you are a fucking retard. How dare you compare redefining marriage to mass genocide. Has a single homo been tricked/ forced into slave labor till starvation, infection, or dehydration kills him? Has a single homo been used as a lab rat to see what's the most efficient way of sterilizing gays so that they can't reproduce. Why don't you get your bitch ass on the next flight to DC and go check out the Holocaust museum. If you have the funds you should also try the Birkenau and Auschwitz concentration camps in Poland. I've been to all 3 locations and I have no reservations in telling you to go to hell. How dare you compare something as trivial as Prop 8 to something so horrific as the Holocaust. Get a fucking life you prick. Countless men, women, and children died and you would dare rank Prop 8 in the same category. You sick fuck icon_evil.gif.
    Mind your history you uneducated bonehead .. homosexuals were one of the victims of the holocaust I was speaking of. Your self righteousness is not impressive at all. Yes I dare to speak up for any form of gay persecution, if you don't like it screw you. And by the way, I guessed you missed the fact that thousands queers were castrated, lobotomized or worse during the holocaust. All to stem the spread of the disease of homosexuality.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_persecution_of_gaysThe harsh treatment can be attributed to the view of the SS guards toward gay men, as well as to the homophobic attitudes present in German society at large. The marginalization of gay men in Germany was reflected in the camps. Out of the 5,000 to 15,000 homosexuals who were in these concentration camps, many died from savage beatings, some of them caused by other prisoners. Nazi doctors often used gay men for scientific experiments in an attempt to locate a "gay gene" to "cure" any future Aryan children who were gay.

    More than one million gay German men were targeted, of whom at least 100,000 were arrested and 50,000 were serving prison terms as convicted gay men.[4] Hundreds of European gay men living under Nazi occupation were castrated under court order.[5]

    Some persecuted under these laws would not have identified themselves as gay. Such "anti-homosexual" laws were widespread throughout the western world until the 1960s and 1970s, so many gay men did not feel safe to come forward with their stories until the 1970s when many so-called "sodomy laws" were repealed.


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    Nov 19, 2008 6:07 AM GMT
    slapaho18 saidWhy don't you get your bitch ass on the next flight to DC and go check out the Holocaust museum.
    Here why don't you revisit The holocaust museum and this time not bypass the exibit on the slaughter of homosexuals:

    http://www.ushmm.org/museum/exhibit/online/hsx/
    http://www.ushmm.org/museum/exhibit/focus/homosexuals_02/

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    Nov 19, 2008 6:08 AM GMT
    ActiveAndFit said
    slapaho18 said
    ActiveAndFit saidI won't congratulate any bigotry. icon_rolleyes.gif oh, and why don't we celebrate the holocaust too! How efficient it was!


    ActiveAndFit you are a fucking retard. How dare you compare redefining marriage to mass genocide. Has a single homo been tricked/ forced into slave labor till starvation, infection, or dehydration kills him? Has a single homo been used as a lab rat to see what's the most efficient way of sterilizing gays so that they can't reproduce. Why don't you get your bitch ass on the next flight to DC and go check out the Holocaust museum. If you have the funds you should also try the Birkenau and Auschwitz concentration camps in Poland. I've been to all 3 locations and I have no reservations in telling you to go to hell. How dare you compare something as trivial as Prop 8 to something so horrific as the Holocaust. Get a fucking life you prick. Countless men, women, and children died and you would dare rank Prop 8 in the same category. You sick fuck icon_evil.gif.
    Mind your history you uneducated bonehead .. homosexuals were one of the victims of the holocaust I was speaking of. Your self righteousness is not impressive at all. Yes I dare to speak up for any form of gay persecution, if you don't like it screw you. And by the way, I guessed you missed the fact that thousands queers were castrated, lobotomized or worse during the holocaust. All to stem the spread of the disease of homosexuality.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_persecution_of_gaysThe harsh treatment can be attributed to the view of the SS guards toward gay men, as well as to the homophobic attitudes present in German society at large. The marginalization of gay men in Germany was reflected in the camps. Out of the 5,000 to 15,000 homosexuals who were in these concentration camps, many died from savage beatings, some of them caused by other prisoners. Nazi doctors often used gay men for scientific experiments in an attempt to locate a "gay gene" to "cure" any future Aryan children who were gay.

    More than one million gay German men were targeted, of whom at least 100,000 were arrested and 50,000 were serving prison terms as convicted gay men.[4] Hundreds of European gay men living under Nazi occupation were castrated under court order.[5]

    Some persecuted under these laws would not have identified themselves as gay. Such "anti-homosexual" laws were widespread throughout the western world until the 1960s and 1970s, so many gay men did not feel safe to come forward with their stories until the 1970s when many so-called "sodomy laws" were repealed.




    And what does that have to do w/ prop 8? Please name me a single person who is serving a prison term in America for being gay. Please name a single gay person who has been castrated under a US court order. With the advent of Gay Pride parades and Ellen how is your response relevant? You are still a douche and irrefutably wrong for trivializing the Holocaust. Please be more careful when you are trying to illustrate your ignorant points. The entire point of this blog was to say hey the voters used their right to vote and democracy was exercised. Bravo. Perhaps it's not what the majority would like but it is what the majority at the time voted. Fucking get over it. You all should have been this active about it back when it would have made a difference. Where was all this energy then?
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    Nov 19, 2008 6:10 AM GMT
    [quote][cite][/cite]slapaho18[/quote]ActiveAndFit you are a fucking retard. How dare you compare redefining marriage to mass genocide. Has a single homo been tricked/ forced into slave labor till starvation, infection, or dehydration kills him? Has a single homo been used as a lab rat to see what's the most efficient way of sterilizing gays so that they can't reproduce. Why don't you get your bitch ass on the next flight to DC and go check out the Holocaust museum. If you have the funds you should also try the Birkenau and Auschwitz concentration camps in Poland. I've been to all 3 locations and I have no reservations in telling you to go to hell. How dare you compare something as trivial as Prop 8 to something so horrific as the Holocaust. Get a fucking life you prick. Countless men, women, and children died and you would dare rank Prop 8 in the same category. You sick fuck .
    BACK TO TOP

    Might I remind you that the Nazis' quite happily persecuted homosexuals and quite happily dumped them into concentration camps as well, and made them wear pink triangles as a badge identifying them as homosexuals. Jews were not the only people persecuted by the Nazis -- there were plenty of political dissidents, as well as gypsies in general, homosexuals, and a large number of others as well than just Jews. So to not equate it iwth the Holocause is wrong -- homosexuals suffered from the Holocause as well, we weren't immune. So yes, Homosexuals were forced into slave labor, and did die of infection, starvation and dehydration, and yes, they were also used as lab rats.

    Yes, you may have visited more than one Holocaust site, but you show a lack of knowledge when it comes to understanding who all was affected by the Holocaust because the Nazis' had multiple targets, and subjected multiple groups of people to their horrors, so NO, there is nothing wrong with associating things with the Nazis' and their persecution as they considered and treated gays as they did Jews and groups of people they deemed inferior.
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    Nov 19, 2008 6:17 AM GMT
    ActiveAndFit said
    slapaho18 saidWhy don't you get your bitch ass on the next flight to DC and go check out the Holocaust museum.
    Here why don't you revisit The holocaust museum and this time not bypass the exibit on the slaughter of homosexuals:

    http://www.ushmm.org/museum/exhibit/online/hsx/



    Why are you so intent on making the Holocaust about gays? Is it just so you can link it to Prop 8? So anybody in the Holocaust that wasn't gay? What they don't count? A lot of people died you idiot. Not just gays. Why is it so hard for you to understand that there is no comparing the gays affected by Prop 8 and the gays persecuted in the Holocaust. You are comparing a slap on the wrist to being fed into a wood chipper feet first. There is no comparing the two you douche.
  • GQjock

    Posts: 11649

    Nov 19, 2008 6:20 AM GMT
    Alright Slapaho ...
    no one is trying to diminish the atrocity that was the Holocaust in any way
    but the tactics that the Mormons used in their depicting us gay men and women were very similar to what the Nazis used in their depiction of jews and roma AND homosexuals back then
    They lied...stretched the truth and spread innuendo
    They made it clear that they had an agenda ... were preying on children
    and were a threat to the sanctity of religious tradition
    So you can stop with the sanctimony and the use of the bad language
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    Nov 19, 2008 6:23 AM GMT
    slapaho18 saidAnd what does that have to do w/ prop 8? Please name me a single person who is serving a prison term in America for being gay. Please name a single gay person who has been castrated under a US court order. With the advent of Gay Pride parades and Ellen how is your response relevant? You are still a douche and irrefutably wrong for trivializing the Holocaust. Please be more careful when you are trying to illustrate your ignorant points. The entire point of this blog was to say hey the voters used their right to vote and democracy was exercised. Bravo. Perhaps it's not what the majority would like but it is what the majority at the time voted. Fucking get over it. You all should have been this active about it back when it would have made a difference. Where was all this energy then?
    Maybe you have not been bashed enough because your sexuality or lost your life because of it, but when people continue as yourself to ignore the meaning and message of discrimination towards gays it just encourages bashing. WAKE UP! because queers get their heads bashed in regularly because people like you that dishonor them by TRIVIALIZING their persecution. And you are still an ignorant self loathing moron and homophobe. Your "slap a ho" screen name speaks for itself .. real classy. Tough talking haters just don't mean much too me.

    ##########

    I think that there are many valid approaches to protest and change. Directed anger in the from of protest is one of them because it lets people know that we are there and that this is no petty matter for us. If anything, I think our campaign commercials were too weak! If we want the compassion of people in general we need to hi-light all the persecution we have had to put up with.

    That is why I think gay people should learn their history about our struggles and boldly put it in the face of these people that think we have it just peachy. The psychological damage done to gays from their youth all the way through adulthood is well documented and so is the cruel physical abuse done through history. By shoving it all under the carpet we perpetuate our self degradation. Just look around here at all the "I afraid to come out stories" .. Like ANYONE should be terrified of being who they are because they have been programmed to believe they are VILE. Relationship is the core of what being homosexual is and PROP 8 strikes at the heart of our self validation.

    We do a great disservice and dishonor to all the queers who have suffered at the hand of oppressors through history by not speaking out on their behalf.

    Gay Holocaust Memorial in Germany
    200px-Berlin_Pink_Triangle.JPG
    it says "STRUCK DEAD - HUSHED UP"
    or alternatively "struck dead and silenced", and we still are to this day. Why is it that when it comes to gay persecution, we are just told to be quiet and accept it?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_persecution_of_homosexuals
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violence_against_LGBT_people
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    Nov 19, 2008 6:29 AM GMT
    wrerick said[quote][cite][/cite]slapaho18
    ActiveAndFit you are a fucking retard. How dare you compare redefining marriage to mass genocide. Has a single homo been tricked/ forced into slave labor till starvation, infection, or dehydration kills him? Has a single homo been used as a lab rat to see what's the most efficient way of sterilizing gays so that they can't reproduce. Why don't you get your bitch ass on the next flight to DC and go check out the Holocaust museum. If you have the funds you should also try the Birkenau and Auschwitz concentration camps in Poland. I've been to all 3 locations and I have no reservations in telling you to go to hell. How dare you compare something as trivial as Prop 8 to something so horrific as the Holocaust. Get a fucking life you prick. Countless men, women, and children died and you would dare rank Prop 8 in the same category. You sick fuck .
    BACK TO TOP

    Might I remind you that the Nazis' quite happily persecuted homosexuals and quite happily dumped them into concentration camps as well, and made them wear pink triangles as a badge identifying them as homosexuals. Jews were not the only people persecuted by the Nazis -- there were plenty of political dissidents, as well as gypsies in general, homosexuals, and a large number of others as well than just Jews. So to not equate it iwth the Holocause is wrong -- homosexuals suffered from the Holocause as well, we weren't immune. So yes, Homosexuals were forced into slave labor, and did die of infection, starvation and dehydration, and yes, they were also used as lab rats.

    Yes, you may have visited more than one Holocaust site, but you show a lack of knowledge when it comes to understanding who all was affected by the Holocaust because the Nazis' had multiple targets, and subjected multiple groups of people to their horrors, so NO, there is nothing wrong with associating things with the Nazis' and their persecution as they considered and treated gays as they did Jews and groups of people they deemed inferior.[/quote]

    So you are also equating Prop 8 to the Holocaust. Wow... What a bunch of pussies. Uhhh as soon as a single gay American is enslaved and worked/ starved to death by today's US Government please let me know so I can apologize for calling you a fucking douche. I'm sticking by my massive guns. You can not equate the suffering that people in the Holocaust went through to what gays in America are going through with the passing of Prop 8. If you disagree with me then you sir are worse than Hitler.
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    Nov 19, 2008 6:32 AM GMT
    worse than hitler?

    how can anyone be angry with this guy?


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    Nov 19, 2008 6:33 AM GMT
    Slapaho18: What Active is doing is pointing out that gays have been persecuted in horrible ways in the past, and that does relate in how we fight for our rights currently -- we fight in part as how we have been treated in the past, so that we will no be discriminated against or treated as we have in other places and other times -- no matter how we are treated now, and there are certainly those who are still subject to hate crimes and people like Matthew Shepherd whose early death is from his sexuality.

    By your reasoning Jews in this country should not appeal to or pay remembrance to the Holocaust as it has nothing to do with how they have been treated in this country -- yes, they've had some discrimmination, though overall minor compared to African Americans or Native Americans and have long played a prominent role in this country despite that descrimination which mostly prevented them from certain hotels, clubs, restaurants etc. But againt the Holocaust has NO bearing on how Jews are treated in this country today, and the same with homosexuals.

    What is the same is that both of us have experienced persecution for things that are innate to us, and and identity that we have no control over. The Nazis' treated both groups the same based on a belief that both were deviants. The parallel is that we've been demonised in the past, and as of the campaign on proposition 8 demonised again in terms of wanting to corrupt innocent children into becoming homosexuals.

    So I ask you slapaho18 are you guilty of wanting to convert young children into being or accepting homosexuals? Are you someone who wishes to destroy the fabric of society and the santifity of marriage to fulfill your carnal desires -- in short are you a blight on the rectitude of society and what it stands for? As that's what the Yes, was campaigning on that, Oh no, we aren't against homosexuals, just that what they are doing is their choice to live that way, and that they want to corrupt your innocent children through the state education and teachers into their debauchery. And I ask is that who you are? Someone who's made a choice and wants to bring others into your debauched 'lifestyle'.
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    Nov 19, 2008 6:34 AM GMT
    blinktwice4y saidworse than hitler?

    how can anyone be angry with this guy?




    redic ;)
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    Nov 19, 2008 6:38 AM GMT
    ActiveAndFit saidI won't congratulate any bigotry. icon_rolleyes.gif oh, and why don't we celebrate the holocaust too! How efficient it was!


    Quote of my life right there... hahaha so true.
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    Nov 19, 2008 6:44 AM GMT
    KissingPro saidThey worked within our system. They were organized. They knew the rules and followed them. They had a different opinion......They got it done........


    This issue will not disappear. The question is, how organized will people who disagree with the recent election sadness be, when the issue comes up gain.

    Instead of boycott lists, chants of outrage and sorrow, why not take lead from the Mormons?


    They deceived people to solicit donations to fund a tax exempt campaign of lies to pass a bill which inserts discrimination into the constitution.


    I too respect them, similar to the respect I feel for, say an individual who gets away with a triple homicide on a technicality. For they too were organized, hired the right people, an exploited holes in the system to achieve their goal legitimately.