Evolution Vs. God - An Atheist Review

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    Aug 31, 2013 6:26 AM GMT
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    Sep 01, 2013 4:02 AM GMT
    I agree that Ray Comfort is absolutely insufferable and incapable of complex logic or apologetics. That said, her tone and approach are almost as annoying as his, and quite frankly unnecessary. I think it's possible for her to present her evidence in a far more professional way, and Dawkins could do with the same in his presentations. Yes, there are stupid people in the world...that shouldn't surprise anyone. That said, there are stupid people who are creationists, and stupid people who are not. Our aim should always be to educate, but in that recognize that we quite simply don't have all the answers, and just because we have some answers and some insight doesn't mean that we have to treat people like shit that don't have them and/or aren't capable of comprehending them.

    Thanks for the video...I don't think I'll watch his. I can't deal with any more junk like his; I had it indoctrinated into me as a teen/young adult and it's taken a long time to get free of the propaganda (especially toward gay/bi men like me) and still be willing to pursue a God in any fashion.

  • Sep 01, 2013 1:14 PM GMT
    so why don't you believe in God ?
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    Sep 01, 2013 1:54 PM GMT
    She's awesome! Her point about the label of "atheist" vs "agnostic" is spot on. It's pointless to shoulder the burden of proof on atheists for the existence of any deity or supernatural entity. I could make up some creature, and it would be silly for me to insist that you disprove its existence. I bet 99.99% would say they don't exist, so why is hard to understand that atheists don't need to disprove the existence of the biblical god (I say biblical because it's the Christian fundamentalists who are throwing a hissy fit).
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    Sep 01, 2013 4:57 PM GMT
    One guy makes a video about how a banana is proof of the existence of God. Then this stupid woman feels the need to make another video saying a banana is not proof of existence of God.
    They're both illogical morons but at least the first guy wasn't making a personal attack.
    How insecure can you be to so desperately need to mock somebody? Let people believe what they want.
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    Sep 01, 2013 11:12 PM GMT
    juvenescencesI agree that Ray Comfort is absolutely insufferable and incapable of complex logic or apologetics. That said, her tone and approach are almost as annoying as his, and quite frankly unnecessary. I think it's possible for her to present her evidence in a far more professional way, and Dawkins could do with the same in his presentations. Yes, there are stupid people in the world...that shouldn't surprise anyone. That said, there are stupid people who are creationists, and stupid people who are not. Our aim should always be to educate, but in that recognize that we quite simply don't have all the answers, and just because we have some answers and some insight doesn't mean that we have to treat people like shit that don't have them and/or aren't capable of comprehending them.

    Thanks for the video...I don't think I'll watch his. I can't deal with any more junk like his; I had it indoctrinated into me as a teen/young adult and it's taken a long time to get free of the propaganda (especially toward gay/bi men like me) and still be willing to pursue a God in any fashion.

    Her tone may seem annoying but what she is saying makes sense and she is logically correct. So to say that she is equally annoying to RC is not fair at all. She is a critic comedian and I personally love her videos because she drops the professional outfit and calls you a dumb fuck if you are one, while presenting really good/valid points as to why you are a dumb fuck. Its funny, and she rocks. She is also a major supporter of gay rights.
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    Sep 02, 2013 4:41 AM GMT
    JohnSpotter saidOne guy makes a video about how a banana is proof of the existence of God. Then this stupid woman feels the need to make another video saying a banana is not proof of existence of God.
    They're both illogical morons but at least the first guy wasn't making a personal attack.
    How insecure can you be to so desperately need to mock somebody? Let people believe what they want.



    He didn't make a video about a banana, he made a full on documentary disregarding science, scamming scientists, misleading viewers and pushing his personal agenda on creationism. Yes he is an idiot a scammer and a moron and he should be called for what he is. And when he uses his personality to attack knowledge, to indoctrinate children and talk shit such as : "End Of Days : Homosexuality will increase. The institution of marriage will be forsaken.". Expect some people to take it personally and to call him our for what he is. Jeez whats wrong with you gay people sometimes. My mind just wonders.
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    Sep 02, 2013 4:49 AM GMT
    charlitos said
    juvenescencesI agree that Ray Comfort is absolutely insufferable and incapable of complex logic or apologetics. That said, her tone and approach are almost as annoying as his, and quite frankly unnecessary. I think it's possible for her to present her evidence in a far more professional way, and Dawkins could do with the same in his presentations. Yes, there are stupid people in the world...that shouldn't surprise anyone. That said, there are stupid people who are creationists, and stupid people who are not. Our aim should always be to educate, but in that recognize that we quite simply don't have all the answers, and just because we have some answers and some insight doesn't mean that we have to treat people like shit that don't have them and/or aren't capable of comprehending them.

    Thanks for the video...I don't think I'll watch his. I can't deal with any more junk like his; I had it indoctrinated into me as a teen/young adult and it's taken a long time to get free of the propaganda (especially toward gay/bi men like me) and still be willing to pursue a God in any fashion.

    Her tone may seem annoying but what she is saying makes sense and she is logically correct. So to say that she is equally annoying to RC is not fair at all. She is a critique comedian and I personally love her videos because she drops the professional outfit and calls you a dumb fuck if you are one while presenting really good/valid points as to why you are a dumb fuck. Its funny, and she rocks. She is also a major supporter of gay rights.

    She's not equally annoying. He actually repulses me, whereas I am just not a fan of her style. We agree in the end on the important things, which is that she's right and logic is on her side. icon_cool.gif

    Glad that she supports us! Maybe if I see other stuff that she has made I'll have a different opinion. Totally open minded here icon_biggrin.gif
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    Sep 02, 2013 5:59 AM GMT
    charlitos said
    JohnSpotter saidOne guy makes a video about how a banana is proof of the existence of God. Then this stupid woman feels the need to make another video saying a banana is not proof of existence of God.
    They're both illogical morons but at least the first guy wasn't making a personal attack.
    How insecure can you be to so desperately need to mock somebody? Let people believe what they want.



    He didn't make a video about a banana, he made a full on documentary disregarding science, scamming scientists, misleading viewers and pushing his personal agenda on creationism. Yes he is an idiot a scammer and a moron and he should be called for what he is. And when he uses his personality to attack knowledge, to indoctrinate children and talk shit such as : "End Of Days : Homosexuality will increase. The institution of marriage will be forsaken.". Expect some people to take it personally and to call him our for what he is. Jeez whats wrong with you gay people sometimes. My mind just wonders.


    Are you against the belief in God? Or just people who don't believe in evolution? I do think it's possible to be gay and still believe in God.
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    Sep 02, 2013 2:30 PM GMT
    hellass said
    charlitos said
    JohnSpotter saidOne guy makes a video about how a banana is proof of the existence of God. Then this stupid woman feels the need to make another video saying a banana is not proof of existence of God.
    They're both illogical morons but at least the first guy wasn't making a personal attack.
    How insecure can you be to so desperately need to mock somebody? Let people believe what they want.



    He didn't make a video about a banana, he made a full on documentary disregarding science, scamming scientists, misleading viewers and pushing his personal agenda on creationism. Yes he is an idiot a scammer and a moron and he should be called for what he is. And when he uses his personality to attack knowledge, to indoctrinate children and talk shit such as : "End Of Days : Homosexuality will increase. The institution of marriage will be forsaken.". Expect some people to take it personally and to call him our for what he is. Jeez whats wrong with you gay people sometimes. My mind just wonders.


    Are you against the belief in God? Or just people who don't believe in evolution? I do think it's possible to be gay and still believe in God.


    Im an atheist. There are quite a few gay Christians on here though.
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    Sep 02, 2013 4:04 PM GMT
    Aristoshark said
    juvenescences said Our aim should always be to educate

    This is a waste of time, because belief in creationism isn't susceptible to more education. It isn't about knowledge, it's about clinging to authority and order.


    I would say it depends on the age. It is much harder to teach 30+ year old to think critically and logically than it is to teach a 5 - 10 year old to think this way. It all comes down to teaching children the truth of what we actually do know and to let them figure out the rest. Every country should stand for proper education and ban all full time religious schools. Kids should only be allowed to learn their parent's religion after school or on Sundays.
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    Sep 02, 2013 4:30 PM GMT
    charlitos saidGeez whats wrong with you gay people sometimes. My mind just wonders.

    That's the same thing Christian gays and spiritual gays such as myself wonder about the obsessive atheists. People are going to believe what they want to believe. Endlessly rehashing here how illogical creationists are as if it's going to make a difference is also illogical. If it doesn't directly have to do with anti-gay propaganda, I don't know what end result is sought.
    Everyone is stupid in something. I find no pleasure in mocking stupid people.
    None of these videos on either side seem to have education as the primary motivation. They seem to me to express a juvenile need to lord it over someone or something they feel superior to. These videos will change nobody's opinion about anything.
    I don't even understand the title. Everyone I know who believes in God also believes in evolution.
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    Sep 02, 2013 4:50 PM GMT
    JohnSpotter said
    charlitos saidGeez whats wrong with you gay people sometimes. My mind just wonders.

    That's the same thing Christian gays and spiritual gays such as myself wonder about the obsessive atheists. People are going to believe what they want to believe. Endlessly rehashing here how illogical creationists are as if it's going to make a difference is also illogical. If it doesn't directly have to do with anti-gay propaganda, I don't know what end result is sought.
    Everyone is stupid in something. I find no pleasure in mocking stupid people.
    None of these videos on either side seem to have education as the primary motivation. They seem to me to express a juvenile need to lord it over someone or something they feel superior to. These videos will change nobody's opinion about anything.
    I don't even understand the title. Everyone I know who believes in God also believes in evolution.



    Challenging an illogical proposition that can affect the lives of others is not an obsession is a simple demand for justification. You are free to have as many imaginary friends as you wish as long as you keep them all away from politics, science and as long as they are not used as the excuse to explain your lack of common sense.

    I understand that it may seem like "hey but is just an opinion that hurts no one". Ray Comfort has quite a big fan base and unfortunately religion is way too powerful to treat it mildly. The moment you abandon reasoning and logic, the moment you allow a book to overwrite your common sense, the moment that facts and scientific research mean nothing to you. That moment we end up with people BELIEVING that homosexuality is apocalyptical and the cause of their problems, that women should be treated as property, that suicide bombers will go to heaven, that non baptized children are going to hell and that your life on earth is just a temporary pass time compared to what it'll be there after(promoting suicide in the form of not seeking help). Yes, non religious people will have a problem with religion and everything it stands for.
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    Sep 02, 2013 5:15 PM GMT
    Any philosophy is good or bad depending on what you do with it. You write as if you're unaware that a quick search on the net will show there are plenty of prominent atheists who spread evil through the world with their philosophies.
    Also, as I pointed out in another thread, Hitler was so inspired by Darwinian evolution that he created the Holocaust. That doesn't mean we should fight against teaching evolution.
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    Sep 02, 2013 5:54 PM GMT
    JohnSpotter saidAny philosophy is good or bad depending on what you do with it. You write as if you're unaware that a quick search on the net will show there are plenty of prominent atheists who spread evil through the world with their philosophies.
    Also, as I pointed out in another thread, Hitler was so inspired by Darwinian evolution that he created the Holocaust. That doesn't mean we should fight against teaching evolution.

    Not to nitpick, but Hitler actually called himself a Christian...

    http://www.nobeliefs.com/hitler-myths.htm
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    Sep 02, 2013 6:06 PM GMT
    Aristoshark said
    juvenescences said Our aim should always be to educate

    This is a waste of time, because belief in creationism isn't susceptible to more education. It isn't about knowledge, it's about clinging to authority and order.

    Be careful with the sweeping statement, Jeff. I agree that in a number of cases this is true. However, keep in mind I grew up in a very conservative Christian household, and all of us were taught to think critically about anything we were learning. At this point in time I have very different views from my parents and brothers, but all of our worldviews have evolved considerably. None of them resemble a traditional Christian worldview in any way, and all have been a result of educating ourselves, be it through life experience or educational institutions. I recognize this is an anecdote, but I do not think of my family as the exception.

    charlitos said
    I would say it depends on the age. It is much harder to teach 30+ year old to think critically and logically than it is to teach a 5 - 10 year old to think this way. It all comes down to teaching children the truth of what we actually do know and to let them figure out the rest. Every country should stand for proper education and ban all full time religious schools. Kids should only be allowed to learn their parent's religion after school or on Sundays.

    As I'm sure you know, a lot of the reason for this is based on neural plasticity in the brain. Roughly around the age of 30 the brain doesn't act as "spongy" as it used to with respect to worldview, personality, etc. This is why the 20s are a critical time to explore one's worldview, and why higher education becomes of tantamount importance.

    I have a memory of talking to my Grade 9 science teacher in my Catholic high school and telling her how uncomfortable I was with evolution as I was first learning about it. Even then I understood the implications that it had on a literalist/creationist view of the Bible and Christianity. It was one of the first instances where I was really starting to recognize my cognitive dissonance, and the metamorphosis of my worldview has continued ever since. I can't speak for religious/Christian schools south of the border, but in Canada they've been pretty good about getting the science curriculum right.
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    Sep 02, 2013 6:16 PM GMT
    "Not to nitpick, but Hitler actually called himself a Christian..."

    On another thread we had a big discussion on whether he was Christian or not. The jury seems to be out on that. This is why I did not use him as an example of a bad atheist - just as a person inspired to do evil by science.
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    Sep 02, 2013 6:18 PM GMT
    JohnSpotter saidAny philosophy is good or bad depending on what you do with it. You write as if you're unaware that a quick search on the net will show there are plenty of prominent atheists who spread evil through the world with their philosophies.
    Also, as I pointed out in another thread, Hitler was so inspired by Darwinian evolution that he created the Holocaust. That doesn't mean we should fight against teaching evolution.


    There is this thing called tangible world that can be used to separate reality from philosophy.
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    Sep 02, 2013 6:27 PM GMT
    Aristoshark said
    juvenescences saidBe careful with the sweeping statement, Jeff. I agree that in a number of cases this is true. However, keep in mind I grew up in a very conservative Christian household, and all of us were taught to think critically about anything we were learning. At this point in time I have very different views from my parents and brothers, but all of our worldviews have evolved considerably. None of them resemble a traditional Christian worldview in any way, and all have been a result of educating ourselves, be it through life experience or educational institutions. I recognize this is an anecdote, but I do not think of my family as the exception.

    You're Canadian, and for once I'm not joking when I point that out. Canada has been largely free of the polarized and highly tribal "us v. them" dynamic that dominates the U.S. these days. For a great many (and I'm only saying that out of deference to you, normally I'd say 'most') of these Christians, it is sufficient that their enemies think otherwise, and the more evidence or education you supply the more firmly they reject it. You can have no idea up there how carefully the hatred of their perceived enemies has been cultivated here since the days of Reagan. It's just not something any foreigner, even one as nearby as a Canadian, can fully comprehend.

    The rest of my family went to a well-known ministry school in California for several years. I got to witness a lot of what you say firsthand. The most ironic thing? If people read their Bible as well as they claim to, they'd find the following:

    Hosea 4:6a - "My people are destroyed from lack of knowledge."
    1 Thessalonians 5:21 - "But examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good."

    Just two snippets that make an appeal to rational, logical thought.
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    Sep 02, 2013 6:38 PM GMT
    charlitos saidThere is this thing called tangible world that can be used to separate reality from philosophy.

    I don't think that addresses my point but, just the same, surely a smart guy like you has examined quantum physics. Even scientists are no longer sure what reality means anymore, especially as distinguished from a possible spiritual universe.
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    Sep 02, 2013 7:09 PM GMT
    JohnSpotter said
    charlitos saidThere is this thing called tangible world that can be used to separate reality from philosophy.

    I don't think that addresses my point but, just the same, surely a smart guy like you has examined quantum physics. Even scientists are no longer sure what reality means anymore, especially as distinguished from a possible spiritual universe.


    There are mathematical models and predictable outcomes derived from quantum theory which is evidence in itself. Yes at a quantum level things can be hard to understand but scientist dont simply pull magic rainbows off their asses to explain what they dont get. They go back to the lab and keep researching, experimenting and "perfectioning" their current theoretical models using inductive logical analysis. These new findings may back up the currently existing theory or completely dismiss it as "illogical".
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    Sep 02, 2013 7:15 PM GMT
    Sorry but I think you're anxiousness to be to derisive has obscured what point you're arguing... so we'll just leave it at that.
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    Sep 02, 2013 7:33 PM GMT
    juvenescences said
    Aristoshark said
    juvenescences said Our aim should always be to educate

    This is a waste of time, because belief in creationism isn't susceptible to more education. It isn't about knowledge, it's about clinging to authority and order.

    Be careful with the sweeping statement, Jeff. I agree that in a number of cases this is true. However, keep in mind I grew up in a very conservative Christian household, and all of us were taught to think critically about anything we were learning. At this point in time I have very different views from my parents and brothers, but all of our worldviews have evolved considerably. None of them resemble a traditional Christian worldview in any way, and all have been a result of educating ourselves, be it through life experience or educational institutions. I recognize this is an anecdote, but I do not think of my family as the exception.

    charlitos said
    I would say it depends on the age. It is much harder to teach 30+ year old to think critically and logically than it is to teach a 5 - 10 year old to think this way. It all comes down to teaching children the truth of what we actually do know and to let them figure out the rest. Every country should stand for proper education and ban all full time religious schools. Kids should only be allowed to learn their parent's religion after school or on Sundays.

    As I'm sure you know, a lot of the reason for this is based on neural plasticity in the brain. Roughly around the age of 30 the brain doesn't act as "spongy" as it used to with respect to worldview, personality, etc. This is why the 20s are a critical time to explore one's worldview, and why higher education becomes of tantamount importance.

    I have a memory of talking to my Grade 9 science teacher in my Catholic high school and telling her how uncomfortable I was with evolution as I was first learning about it. Even then I understood the implications that it had on a literalist/creationist view of the Bible and Christianity. It was one of the first instances where I was really starting to recognize my cognitive dissonance, and the metamorphosis of my worldview has continued ever since. I can't speak for religious/Christian schools south of the border, but in Canada they've been pretty good about getting the science curriculum right.



    It makes sense, specially how conflicted you were while learning things that directly contradicted each other. You had to make a choice. I personally was taught science first(Cuba) and then I noticed some of my classmates where heading to church after school and I hated feeling left out no matter what. I was the kind of kid who would pretend to have speech problems just to be able to skip class and go to speech therapy sessions instead with the other kids that actually had that problem. So as you can imagine I was dying to go to church. I have to say that I loved every bit of the church experience, I used to sing at the church every sunday, i was part of some of the theatrical plays(as one of the angels lol), I was baptized, I would bring all my classmates with me to the church next to our school right before the school opened so that we could pray for the teacher not to show up that day. There was a lot going on lol. Somehow I never actually thought the church was in conflict with science, I always thought of it as two different worlds I could switch to depending on what i needed. I stopped going to the church because as I got older it wasnt as fun anymore...they slowly started replacing the fun sessions with biblical teachings and I got so bored that I lost interest. Until I was 18 I would still pray if I needed something(I wanted my dog to get better) and I would flip the jesus' portrait behind my bed while masturbating(out of respect) but in a "just in case" type of thought. I never actually believed it was real, it was more like "just in case he is real". Then in my 20s I just fully transitioned into atheism, it wasnt hard, it just made sense as I kept educating myself.
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    Sep 02, 2013 7:35 PM GMT
    JohnSpotter saidSorry but I think you're anxiousness to be to derisive has obscured what point you're arguing... so we'll just leave it at that.


    It is only as obscure as your own mind limits you to understand my point. If i have to further spell it out for you maybe you cant handle a simple conversation with me. So we'll just leave it at that.