Calif. Supreme Court to take up gay marriage ban

  • blahatthat

    Posts: 37

    Nov 19, 2008 10:53 PM GMT
    Let's see what happens..


    http://apnews.myway.com/article/20081119/D94I8U1G3.html
  • roadbikeRob

    Posts: 14342

    Nov 19, 2008 10:57 PM GMT
    Hopefully the California Supreme Court will overturn this horrendous proposition 8 vote but I get a strange feeling that this is going to be dragged into a federal court and this issue is going to be on the forefront for a long time.
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    Nov 19, 2008 11:06 PM GMT
    This is significant. I expect the Court to come down on the side of the Equal Protection clause of the state constitution and this or any such amendment will be rejected. This is the beginning of the end of all this nonsense. And if it goes to the US Supreme Court, it will be end of this nonsense thruout the country. No court is going to allow one group to deny another group from participating in society and the government. That will open the doors to slavery....there would be no logical or legal way to prevent that extrapolation.
  • GQjock

    Posts: 11649

    Nov 19, 2008 11:51 PM GMT
    This is a very good turn of events
    They Have to rule that Civil Rights cannot be adjudicated by simple mob rule
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    Nov 19, 2008 11:56 PM GMT
    From CNN's article on the subject:

    In its May 15 ruling legalizing gay marriage in California, the justices seemed to signal that a ballot initiative like Proposition 8 might not be enough to change the underlying constitutional issues of the case in the court's eyes.

    The ruling said the right to marry is among a set of basic human rights "so integral to an individual's liberty and personal autonomy that they may not be eliminated or abrogated by the legislature or by the electorate through the statutory initiative process."


    I didn't see it at the time, but the Justices appeared to leave themselves a legal precedent should 8 pass. Maybe I'm just reading hopefully into their prior ruling.
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    Nov 19, 2008 11:57 PM GMT
    The happiest people in California? The lawyers, they are going to be making a mint. Hopefully the supreme court will rule in the gays favour (the first one should have stuck).
  • Menergy_1

    Posts: 737

    Nov 20, 2008 1:13 AM GMT
    Show some solidarity regardless of your location:

    Have you signed the pledge to repeal Prop 8?

    I just did. And over 270,000 other people have signed the pledge from the Courage Campaign, CREDO Mobile, and MoveOn.org to repeal Prop 8 and restore marriage equality to California:

    http://www.couragecampaign.org/RepealProp8

    Usually, discussions of political issues wind down after elections, but Prop 8 is not about politics. It is about love, equality and civil rights. That's why we cannot let the passage of Prop 8 stand.

    We all need to talk to our family and friends about the importance of restoring marriage equality to California.

    That is why I am asking you to sign the pledge to repeal Prop 8 and to tell your friends by forwarding this message.


    PS you can certainly forward that onto 10 of your friends just to have them join in the campaign against discrimination and bigotry wherever it shows it ugly face.


  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Nov 20, 2008 1:59 AM GMT
    I guess the best statement in all of this is ... Boys start your engines. This is going to be a long process. Pro 8 willingly wants this dragged out for as long as possible but has high hopes that at the end of the day this prop will remain active.

    Once again we are getting a chance to state our case and demand our equal rights so this is a good thing. I was a little disappointed that Justice Joyce Kennard did not sign, but the court said she would have invited a separate filing to determine the fate of existing same-sex marriages. She voted against granting review of the lawsuits. We had her vote in our favor when marriage was granted this past summer. We will need her vote again.

    Hopefully, her approach is that she is simply acknowledging the current law but given the majority voted in favor of a review she will listen carefully and realize this was actually a state constitutional revision because it denied equal protection to a minority group and eviscerated a key constitutional guarantee. Such a revision of the state Constitution can be placed before the voters only by a two-thirds vote of the Legislature or a constitutional convention.

    Keep your fingers crossed but expect this to go on for quite some time. The second it's thrown out expect Pro 8 to fight back and likewise should we see our own setbacks.

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Nov 20, 2008 7:23 AM GMT
    The actual legal info here:
    http://www.courtinfo.ca.gov/courts/supreme/highprofile/prop8.htm

    The text below can be found at Equality California's (EQCA) website. I boldfaced some of the text below that I thought was pretty cool, and speaks to the need for building stronger coalitions, ideally by getting the gays to reciprocally support issues relevant to pursuing and supporting the garnering of equal rights for non-gay and oppressed/disadvantaged communities that are mentioned below.

    from:
    http://www.eqca.org

    November 19, 2008
    California Supreme Court Grants Review in Prop 8 Legal Challenges

    Court to Determine Constitutionality of Prop 8
    (San Francisco, California, November 19, 2008 )—Today the California Supreme Court granted review in the legal challenges to Proposition 8, which passed by a narrow margin of 52 percent on November 4. In an order issued today, the Court agreed to hear the case and set an expedited briefing schedule. The Court also denied an immediate stay.
    On November 5, 2008, the National Center for Lesbian Rights, the American Civil Liberties Union, and Lambda Legal filed a lawsuit challenging the validity of Proposition 8 in the California Supreme Court on behalf of six couples and Equality California. The City of San Francisco, joined by the City of Los Angeles, the County of Los Angeles, and Santa Clara County, filed a similar challenge, as did a private attorney in Los Angeles.

    The lawsuits allege that, on its face, Proposition 8 is an improper revision rather than an amendment of the California Constitution because, in its very title, which was “Eliminates the right to marry for same-sex couples,” the initiative eliminated an existing right only for a targeted minority. If permitted to stand, Proposition 8 would be the first time an initiative has successfully been used to change the California Constitution to take way an existing right only for a particular group. Such a change would defeat the very purpose of a constitution and fundamentally alter the role of the courts in protecting minority rights. According to the California Constitution, such a serious revision of our state Constitution cannot be enacted through a simple majority vote, but must first be approved by two-thirds of the Legislature.

    Since the three lawsuits submitted on November 5, three other lawsuits challenging Proposition 8 have been filed. In a petition filed on November 14, 2008, leading African American, Latino, and Asian American groups argued that Proposition 8 threatens the equal protection rights of all Californians.

    On November 17, 2008, the California Council of Churches and other religious leaders and faith organizations representing millions of members statewide, also filed a petition asserting that Proposition 8 poses a severe threat to the guarantee of equal protection for all, and was not enacted through the constitutionally required process for such a dramatic change to the California Constitution. On the same day, prominent California women’s rights organizations filed a petition asking the Court to invalidate Proposition 8 because of its potentially disastrous implications for women and other groups that face discrimination.

    In May of 2008, the California Supreme Court held that barring same-sex couples from marriage violates the equal protection clause of the California Constitution and violates the fundamental right to marry. Proposition 8 would completely eliminate the right to marry only for same-sex couples. No other initiative has ever successfully changed the California Constitution to take away a right only from a targeted minority group.

    Over the past 100 years, the California Supreme Court has heard nine cases challenging either legislative enactments or initiatives as invalid revisions of the California Constitution. In three of those cases, the Court invalidated those measures.
  • Menergy_1

    Posts: 737

    Nov 20, 2008 2:44 PM GMT
    Thanks for the update! I've forwarded this to some good friends of all kinds in CA to keep them apprised and to encourage them to join in the alliances as they can.
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    Nov 20, 2008 2:54 PM GMT
    So, should the California Supreme Court over turn Prop. 8, and gay marriage is again legal in that state, will everyone in California, and across the US, who got so worked up when Prop. 8 passed, go back to sleep? There was not much activity when the other 30 states amended their constitutions. It was only when California did, that it became a huge issue. No matter what the California court decides, there will still be at least 47 states that do not have equal marriage rights for all their residents. This issue isn't settled until all 50 states have equal marriage rights.
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    Nov 20, 2008 3:01 PM GMT
    I think people are ready to dig their heels in for the big fight, rights at the fed level. That is, if things improve in California.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Nov 20, 2008 3:16 PM GMT
    McGay saidI think people are ready to dig their heels in for the big fight, rights at the fed level. That is, if things improve in California.


    Why do you say people will fight "if things improve in California" ? Shouldn't people work for equal rights in either case? What am I missing?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Nov 20, 2008 3:19 PM GMT
    I meant that if prop 8 stands in California, the focus will remain there. If prop 8 falls in California, our eyes have to move on to a different prize.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Nov 20, 2008 3:53 PM GMT
    California is also the most populous state, and psychologically important as it's seen as a 'bellweather' state on social issues.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Nov 20, 2008 4:16 PM GMT
    OutdoorMutt saidSo, should the California Supreme Court over turn Prop. 8, and gay marriage is again legal in that state, will everyone in California, and across the US, who got so worked up when Prop. 8 passed, go back to sleep? There was not much activity when the other 30 states amended their constitutions. It was only when California did, that it became a huge issue. No matter what the California court decides, there will still be at least 47 states that do not have equal marriage rights for all their residents. This issue isn't settled until all 50 states have equal marriage rights.


    People keep forgetting that in the states that passed bans we didn't have the legal right to marry.

    This is why California is different. We were granted the right to marry, and then it was taken away.
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    Nov 20, 2008 7:08 PM GMT
    I did not forget that. I also know that California is only 12% of the total population. Unfortunately, sometimes people act as if it the only state that matters. I'll be happy to protest for equal rights in California, when Californians are out there demonstrating for the rest of us. Equal marriage rights are important everywhere, in California, and every other state (and every other country).
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Nov 20, 2008 7:28 PM GMT
    OutdoorMutt saidI did not forget that. I also know that California is only 12% of the total population. Unfortunately, sometimes people act as if it the only state that matters. I'll be happy to protest for equal rights in California, when Californians are out there demonstrating for the rest of us. Equal marriage rights are important everywhere, in California, and every other state (and every other country).


    CA has always been one of THE states to watch and let the rest of the country somewhat follow suit.

    As for the Supreme Court, this is gonna be tough and a long battle, however it ONLY means that victory will be SWEET!! Let's keep our fingers crossed!
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    Nov 20, 2008 7:30 PM GMT
    Unlike federal judges who have their jobs for life, state Supreme Court justices in CA are voted into office for 10-year terms -- there's no judicial independence. There've been rumors that the Yes on 8 people will attempt re-call petitions or will oppose them heavily the next time their names are on the ballot. They currently run unopposed. Whether stated or not, there will be some enormous political pressure on them by the religious right to rule in favor of keeping Prop 8 as the law of the state.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Nov 20, 2008 7:47 PM GMT
    It should also be noted that the judges who granted the basic civil rights in the first place were all Republicans. Quite shocking when you think about it. No one ever mentions that
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    Nov 20, 2008 8:15 PM GMT
    You know this just absolutely *$#*@!* ludicrous that we are even dealing with this crap in the 21st century. I mean this country is a democracy not a mob-ocracy. Our Declaration of Independence is founded upon that notion that all men are created equal. They had it right. It unfathomable that it took so long for the many to grant the same rights this nation was founded on to to the few. Our treatment of women, blacks, Native Americans, and gays has been an disgusting and outrageous stain on our nation's history.

    Gay marriage is legal in how many other countries? All these people opposed to gay marriage and intent on legislating morality should head on over to Iran and Syria where fundamentalist, backwards, discriminatory, forces of prejudice and hate rule the day. They would get along well with the likes Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. It just floors me, and disgusts me that this is still an issue in a supposedly modern and progressive country founded upon principles of human rights. Those in favor of Prop 8 should be ashamed of themselves. They are as anti-American as the terrorists.

    It is only when the courts, in CA, and across this country get the courage to put an end to this once in for all, that the promise of the American system of government will be upheld. Until then this is terrible reflection on our nation as a whole. How can we ever dare to use such quaint slogans as "all men are equal under the law", and "justice is blind", when this crap still goes on. We can only hope and fight like hell for the courts to make a final and long overdue decision that ends this discrimination for good.

    Sorry for the long post, I needed to let off a little steam on this topic.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Nov 20, 2008 8:30 PM GMT
    I would actually LOVE this issue to be brought before the US Supreme Court where they would be forced to rule on this civil rights issue for all US gays...of course, the court IS conservative at the moment, so then they might rule that gays are second-class citizens...I feel that public pressure as well as adherance to the constitution/constitutional clauses would support them ruling in favor of gay rights.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Nov 20, 2008 8:42 PM GMT
    does anyone know where you can find a listing of the 1,138 federal rights that are associated with civil marriage? I know each state has approx. 300 state rights for civil marriage, but i'm trying to find a list of the federal rights