OK Grammar Gurus

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    Sep 12, 2013 3:04 PM GMT
    THIS THREAD IS CLOSED. Thank you.
  • tazzari

    Posts: 2937

    Sep 12, 2013 3:18 PM GMT
    Punctuation is meant to clarify meaning. Put commas where you feel it helps get the meaning across most clearly. Another rule-of-thumb is to read it out lout and hear where the pauses/commas are.

    Punctuation changes rapidly over time, but in the end, it's there like road signs, to tell you where to stop (period), pause (comma), pay attention (colon), etc.
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    Sep 12, 2013 3:22 PM GMT
    wrestlervic saidWhere to put the commas when describing the horse:

    The woman sat prominently in the carriage bench while carefully guiding a single chestnut American saddlebred around the corner.

    Is this right?
    The woman sat prominently in the carriage bench while carefully guiding a single, chestnut, American saddlebred around the corner.


    Besides that you sit in a carriage but on a bench, I'd say just one comma after single. Saddlebred is capped. American Saddlebred being the breed, the two adjectives are single and chestnut. The comma goes between the modifiers, not between the modifier and the modified.
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    Sep 12, 2013 3:36 PM GMT
    wrestlervic saidWhere to put the commas when describing the horse:

    The woman sat prominently in the carriage bench while carefully guiding a single chestnut American saddlebred around the corner.

    Is this right?
    The woman sat prominently in the carriage bench while carefully guiding a single, chestnut, American saddlebred around the corner.

    Addressing only your original question, you could go the practical route by removing the word single ("single" is implied with "a" already) and that would more or less fix everything. No commas necessary then!

    If you're looking to completely clean up the sentence after that, change "in" to "on" and then capitalize both words for the name of the horse ("American Saddlebred").
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    Sep 12, 2013 3:39 PM GMT
    wrestlervic saidWhere to put the commas when describing the horse:

    The woman sat prominently in the carriage bench while carefully guiding a single chestnut American saddlebred around the corner.

    Is this right?
    The woman sat prominently in the carriage bench while carefully guiding a single, chestnut, American saddlebred around the corner.

    Try capitalizing the entire breed name, as it does appear in most sources:

    The woman sat prominently on the carriage bench while carefully guiding a Chestnut American Saddlebred around the corner.
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    Sep 12, 2013 3:41 PM GMT
    That must be some party: http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/3063334
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    Sep 12, 2013 4:04 PM GMT
    ART_DECO saidThe woman sat prominently on the carriage bench while carefully guiding a Chestnut American Saddlebred around the corner.


    You don't know the context of his request. For all you know he might be differentiating between...

    [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Driving_(horse)[/url]

    "a single horse, a tandem or four-in-hand team"

    ...possibly mentioned elsewhere in his story. So being presumptuous by simply calling attention to a possible redundancy fails to help Vic on the requested comma placement. Besides that I've no idea why you capped chestnut.
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    Sep 12, 2013 4:11 PM GMT
    http://www.quickanddirtytips.com/education/grammar/commas-adjectives?page=all
    Coordinate Adjectives Versus Cumulative Adjectives The comma rule comes down to the difference between two kinds of adjectives: coordinate adjectives and cumulative adjectives. Coordinate adjectives are adjectives in a row that each separately modify the noun that follows (1), as in “heavy, bulky box.” Both “heavy” and “bulky” modify “box.” You can even rearrange the adjectives and say, “bulky, heavy box.” Cumulative adjectives, on the other hand, don’t separately modify the noun that follows even though they are all stacked up before the noun too (2). Instead, the adjective right before the noun pairs with the noun as a unit, and then adjective before that unit modifies that.

    Interesting. So, no comma as shark notes but for a reason we all seemed to have missed.

    We wouldn't say a chestnut single horse. But we would say a single chestnut horse. No comma.

    As opposed to if you were describing the horse as being both lame and obnoxious, we could say both that it's nothing but a lame, obnoxious horse while we could also say it's an obnoxious, lame horse. Comma included with purchase.
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    Sep 12, 2013 4:36 PM GMT
    I would not use any commas.
    I have former teachers who would have said that both "in the carriage bench" and "while guiding... around the corner." are prepositions that should be set off by commas. But if you said it out loud, I don't think you would break up the sentence like that.
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    Sep 12, 2013 4:43 PM GMT
    I wanted to point out that it was a carriage drawn by one horse, not two or more.

    I was under the impression that you would only capitalize American, not Saddlebred. For instance, you say Boston terrier and Douglas fir, Irish setter, etc.

    So are we going with no commas as acceptable?

    The woman sat prominently in the carriage bench while carefully guiding a single chestnut American saddlebred around the corner.
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    Sep 12, 2013 5:33 PM GMT
    wrestlervic saidI wanted to point out that it was a carriage drawn by one horse, not two or more.

    I was under the impression that you would only capitalize American, not Saddlebred. For instance, you say Boston terrier and Douglas fir, Irish setter, etc.

    So are we going with no commas as acceptable?

    The woman sat prominently in the carriage bench while carefully guiding a single chestnut American saddlebred around the corner.


    No comma as you neither separate the modifier from the modified with a comma as I noted, but also no comma in this case between the string of adjectives per the coordinate/cumulative issue. If you checked out that web page, she gave a good rule. Generally if you can use the word "and" between adjectives, then you can use a comma. If you would not use the word "and" between the two, then you would not use a comma.

    From what I was reading earlier, it looked like Saddlebred would be capped. However, by this

    http://www.americanhorsepubs.org/career_center/resources/AHP_Style_Guide.pdf
    AP style shows: breeds Capitalize names of horse breeds. Thoroughbred, Arabian, Quarter Horse. For breeds
    not listed, capitalize words derived from proper nouns; use lowercase elsewhere, basset hound, Boston terrier.


    I don't see S(s)addlebred in that list, yet it shows Paint as capped while palomino is lowercase. So I don't know if that list is complete or by what logic they are using. (by the AP style book just cited, it seems lower case but every single place I look from wiki to the various horse associations to different publications shows it capped.)
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    Sep 12, 2013 5:35 PM GMT
    I'm also in the no comma camp on this one.
  • Hothouse

    Posts: 2204

    Sep 12, 2013 5:58 PM GMT
    As, a, member, of, the, Comma, Union, I'd, suggest, a, comma, after, every, word, to, keep, more, commas, employed,. Thank, you,.
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    Sep 12, 2013 6:09 PM GMT
    I think I figured out the cap logic.

    Thoroughbred is capped to differentiate between a Thoroughbred horse and a horse that is simply thoroughbred, while Quarter Horse is capped because it is not simply a quarter of a horse. And Paint is capped because it can be a horse, or you can paint a barn.

    It could be that all the references I've been looking at cap Saddlebred because they know to cap Thoroughbred so popular use could be to cap any bred like White or Rye or Pumpernickel. Okay, you caught me, I just like saying the word pumpernickel.
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    Sep 12, 2013 11:02 PM GMT
    theantijock said
    ART_DECO saidThe woman sat prominently on the carriage bench while carefully guiding a Chestnut American Saddlebred around the corner.


    You don't know the context of his request. For all you know he might be differentiating between...

    [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Driving_(horse)[/url]

    "a single horse, a tandem or four-in-hand team"

    ...possibly mentioned elsewhere in his story. So being presumptuous by simply calling attention to a possible redundancy fails to help Vic on the requested comma placement. Besides that I've no idea why you capped chestnut.

    Because you're obsessed with stalking me around this site, using every lame opportunity to personally attack me. Does that answer your question?

    I wasn't aware I called attention to any redundancy, I didn't even say that in my reply.

    "Try capitalizing the entire breed name, as it does appear in most sources" That's all I wrote, plus my suggested changes. I believe you confused my reply with that of juvenescences above me. But nice try at your usual ad hominem attack, even if you screwed it all up.

    I capitalized Chestnut because that's a common convention in describing these horses. You will find them listed that way in breeding guides and other publications. And the cap helped to clarify that Chestnut referred to the color of the horse, making it a part of its formal ASHA name, reducing the need for comas, the OP's original question. icon_biggrin.gif
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    Sep 12, 2013 11:41 PM GMT
    ART_DECO said
    theantijock said
    ART_DECO saidThe woman sat prominently on the carriage bench while carefully guiding a Chestnut American Saddlebred around the corner.


    You don't know the context of his request. For all you know he might be differentiating between...

    [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Driving_(horse)[/url]

    "a single horse, a tandem or four-in-hand team"

    ...possibly mentioned elsewhere in his story. So being presumptuous by simply calling attention to a possible redundancy fails to help Vic on the requested comma placement. Besides that I've no idea why you capped chestnut.

    Because you're obsessed with stalking me around this site, using every lame opportunity to personally attack me. Does that answer your question?

    I wasn't aware I called attention to any redundancy, I didn't even say that in my reply.

    "Try capitalizing the entire breed name, as it does appear in most sources" That's all I wrote, plus my suggested changes. I believe you confused my reply with that of juvenescences above me. But nice try at your usual ad hominem attack, even if you screwed it all up.

    I capitalized Chestnut because that's a common convention in describing these horses. You will find them listed that way in breeding guides and other publications. And the cap helped to clarify that Chestnut referred to the color of the horse, making it a part of its formal ASHA name, reducing the need for comas, the OP's original question. icon_biggrin.gif


    You think I'm stalking you? Dude, A) ewwww, B) I'm one of the few posters on here who fairly consistently treats you as if you were normal, present post excluded.

    Due to trying to get rid of ads, I screwed up how my browser interacts with this site and so now often get bumped off being logged in and so I did inadvertently notice a 2nd post besides yours which also deleted the OP's use of the word "single". Since it seemed that also you were confusing with that wrongly capped chestnut of yours--regardless of your ridiculous rationalizing--I thought to utilize this post to make both points.

    That you consider that stalking is bizarre yet typical of you. You could have been anyone as far as I was concerned--and frankly, at that moment, that's all you were--offering that misinformation and I'd have corrected it just the same.

    I had considered noting the possible redundancy of "a" "single" but instead I considered the OPs writing style as already presented to us in the past, and what do ya know, I won the dollar on that when later said he intended to specify the difference. So single was important to his sentence and thereby to his initial question about commas, about which, again, you deleted.

    Now why don't you just go back into your comma coma, you seem so comfortable there. Besides that little dig, feel free to show all the many places where you claim I ever attacked you. I have not. So you are either a liar or you are drunk. Either way, ugly.
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    Sep 13, 2013 12:02 AM GMT
    theantijock said
    Due to trying to get rid of ads, I screwed up how my browser interacts with this site and so now often get bumped off being logged in and so I did inadvertently notice a 2nd post besides yours which also deleted the OP's use of the word "single". Since it seemed that also you were confusing with that wrongly capped chestnut of yours--regardless of your ridiculous rationalizing--I thought to utilize this post to make both points.

    In other words, you did confuse somebody else's post with mine, as I guessed. Nice if you could just apologize for insulting me without cause.

    As for stalking, would you prefer I said persecuting? I have no idea what set you off about me, but suddenly a few months ago you began these baseless attacks. I was more than a little stunned.

    Once again, I wonder if you got your posts twisted, and you mistakenly thought I said something nasty about you. I don't believe I ever did, and I certainly would have no reason to do so. On the contrary, I thought you were an ally on a number of issues I've discussed here. Maybe not about everything, but we're not all clones.

    So, let's do a reboot here. I'll back off, you back off. Let's return to interacting about issues, not personalities. Is that agreeable?
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    Sep 13, 2013 12:12 AM GMT
    ART_DECO saidIn other words, you did confuse somebody else's post with mine, as I guessed. Nice if you could just apologize for insulting me without cause.

    As for stalking, would you prefer I said persecuting?


    No I did not confuse. As I stated, I very much purposely responded to just one post, which happened by chance to be yours, which contained both issues and not just the one.

    As to whatever else you wrote. I have no idea as I did not and will not read it. I stopped reading at the word persecuting. You are now being clicked onto ignore.

    I will try solve my browser issue post haste so your posts don't show up on my screen again. Further, I will avert my eyes to your quoted posts, often seen when others are rightfully ripping you to shreds, about which, from what I've seen, you most often bring upon yourself.

    Please click on the ignore button under my avatar as well. Buh bye.
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    Sep 13, 2013 12:23 AM GMT
    Another antijock special...gets called out on his condescending bullshit, hits ignore and then later calls it "bullying" icon_rolleyes.gif

    Welcome to the ignored club!
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    Sep 13, 2013 12:34 AM GMT
    theantijock said
    ART_DECO saidIn other words, you did confuse somebody else's post with mine, as I guessed. Nice if you could just apologize for insulting me without cause.

    As for stalking, would you prefer I said persecuting?

    No I did not confuse. As I stated, I very much purposely responded to just one post, which happened by chance to be yours, which contained both issues and not just the one.

    As to whatever else you wrote. I have no idea as I did not and will not read it. I stopped reading at the word persecuting. You are now being clicked onto ignore.

    Again, my post did not contain both issues at all. I addressed nothing about redundancy, of which you accused me, and you haven't shown that I did. Your inability to admit your mistake, or to even review the matter ("As to whatever else you wrote. I have no idea as I did not and will not read it.") speaks of a rather hostile, rigid & inflexible personality. Consistent with the previous persecution I mentioned.

    I extended an olive branch, proposing we've had a misunderstanding. I must accept you blocking me, but frankly you're someone whom I wouldn't want reading my posts and attacking them anyway. Good riddance, my dear. icon_biggrin.gif
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    Sep 13, 2013 12:35 AM GMT
    juvenescences saidAnother antijock special...gets called out on his condescending bullshit, hits ignore and then later calls it "bullying" icon_rolleyes.gif

    Welcome to the ignored club!

    LOL!
  • equus77

    Posts: 55

    Sep 13, 2013 3:18 AM GMT
    I'm only commenting because I train American Saddlebreds. I would insist that Saddlebred be capitalized but I may be slightly biased icon_wink.gif
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    Sep 13, 2013 3:54 AM GMT
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    Sep 13, 2013 10:41 PM GMT
    Aristoshark saidThat sentence requires no commas at all. In fact, the commas do more to obscure the meaning than clarify it.

    That was my take on it as well.
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    Sep 13, 2013 11:06 PM GMT
    My tuppence worth:

    The woman carefully drove a horse and carriage around the corner. She was sitting prominently on the carriage bench. The horse was a chestnut American Saddlebred.