Gaining weight without carbs

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Sep 16, 2013 1:15 PM GMT
    Yesterday I did the Great North Run (from Newcastle to South Shields in Northeast England - the world's second largest half marathon event, according to Wikipedia). My time was 2hrs 5 minutes, which I'm happy with, especially considering that the largest distance I'd run before was only 7 miles icon_biggrin.gif

    Now I've got my first ever sporting achievement under my belt, I want to cut out cardio almost completely and put on some weight. I don't like being as skinny as I am. So, usual story for a skinny guy looking to build: it's into the gym, following a steady, thorough lifting programme, sleeping and eating like they're your hobbies, being patient, etc.

    There's only one thing. For health reasons which I won't bore you with, I'm going to be undertaking a "Leaky Gut repair diet" which will require me to eliminate ALL starchy carbs (not just gluten - I won't be having gluten-free grains like rice, corn, quinoa, etc. or even potatoes icon_cry.gif ) It's basically a diet of vegetables (except nightshades and mushrooms), meat, fish and olive oil. There's no dairy so no protein shakes. I think the fact that I'm not even allowed any nuts makes it stricter than a Paleo diet? Here are the details (It's devised by Dr Kharrazian: a neuroscientist and funtional medicine practitioner): http://thyroidbook.com/blog/autoimmune-gut-repair-diet/

    I'll be doing this for at least six weeks. I'd like to know whether you think the elimination of all complex carbs will be detrimental to my goals? Is it ok to source all carbs from veg rather than grains, as long as I'm eating loads of protein from fish and meat? Or should I postpone my workouts until the six weeks or so are over, when I reintroduce some grains (probably not gluten-containing) and nuts?

    I'd be grateful for advice from anyone - whether followers of a paleo diet or those who know about energy metabolism and weight gain.
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    Sep 16, 2013 4:16 PM GMT
    Not all protein shakes are whey. They have egg and soy protein shakes also. As any bodybuilder would tell you have to EAT EAT EAT EAT EAT to put on poundage especially if you are a hard gainer like me. Trust me, ive had to work my ass off trying to make the gains I have and it took me 10 years but I am no where near bodybuilder status and will probably never be. At one point I wanted to be a bodybuilder but I gave up on that idea and changed it into something else, circus freak. icon_twisted.gif This was me at 150#:

    haATkEjztpypYzZhMQBkFnVDHCIYFWuegcbq-610

    Now cutting out carbs is going to make it more difficult. When I was in hard gaining mode, I was in taking between 7k-8k cals per day and I felt so freaking bloated and fat. But as soon as I reached 200#, I stopped and leaned out to a good 180. Still want to lean out more.

    Anyways, I was looking in the bodybuilding.com forums about the "keto" and "paleo" diet since I have never heard of the "Leaky Gut" one and most say that it will be very difficult to get the amount of calories you need to gain and like any reduced calorie diets, it will be catabolic.

    Looking at your pictures, I am not sure why you need to go on a diet? What "Leaky gut"?

    Here is a very interesting read I also found about bulking for ecto-morphs that might help you:

    http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/beast50.htm

    What is your work out plan like? If you say all machines and high reps you might want to change that.
  • MikeW

    Posts: 6061

    Sep 16, 2013 5:49 PM GMT
    I'm not an expert but I think consistency over time is the key. Muscle development is primarily an adaptive response. If you want more muscle than you have, you have to make demands on your muscles you haven't made before. Then, as they grow, you have to demand even more. It's a cycle: Make demands, feed and allow recovery, make more demands. But this is an incremental cycle.

    You need proper nourishment both for fuel to lift and muscle growth. There also needs to be recovery time for the muscles to actually grow, too. Does no good to cause micro-tears in muscle tissue but not allow them to recover.

    Muscle growth happens *very* slowly, almost imperceptibly, especially for ectomorphs. So, it can be frustrating and this frustration can lead to giving up too quickly. TravisTI states it took him 10 years to go from his picture to where he is today.

    Since the diet you're on is (apparently) only temporary, I think it is a good time to begin waking up your muscles... getting them used to working out. IOW, work out hard but not over exhaust them. Eat a lot of protein (at least 1 to 1.5 grams per kg of body weight NOTE: 1kg of red meat = 180g protein) and supplement with BCAAs and Glutamine. Get at least 8 hours of rest at night. Probably only workout 3 days a week.

    Once you can eat more normally you might be able to workout harder, lift heavier and/or more frequently. But in any case, don't expect sudden, dramatic results. Know going in that what you are trying to do is a long-term project. Keep records of your workouts (sets reps weight, etc) and your body measurements so you *know* whether you are getting stronger and/or growing in size.
  • pelotudo87

    Posts: 225

    Sep 16, 2013 9:45 PM GMT
    While you can bulk on a ketogenic / low carb diet, you just have to make sure that you are in a caloric surplus...so for you that would probably mean increasing your fat intake.

    Since it will only be 6 weeks, I would hold off on getting on any set diet for the time being (by the time you figure out your diet and macronutrient ratios, it will be time to change your diet again).

    So, for the time being, I think it would be a better use of your time to focus on learning proper exercise technique and planning a workout split.
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    Sep 17, 2013 6:56 AM GMT
    Am almost certain you can eat the following starchy veggies for what you are doing: butternut squash, kabocha squash, acorn squash, sweet potato, carrots, spaghetti squash, turnip, parsnips. Not sure about yucca and its dirivatives (tapioca and manioc). You can also help get that feeling of satisfaction that normal starchy foods provide by eating more healthy fat. Message me if you want ideas on preparation. Good luck.. Hope it works.
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    Sep 17, 2013 8:47 AM GMT
    From looking at your pic the obvious answer is eat something soon
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    Sep 17, 2013 12:03 PM GMT
    Nivek saidAm almost certain you can eat the following starchy veggies for what you are doing: butternut squash, kabocha squash, acorn squash, sweet potato, carrots, spaghetti squash, turnip, parsnips.


    Yes I can have those things. Not heard of some of them though! But squash, sweet potatoes, carrots, etc are fine. Don't like parsnips. Some of those things sound pretty obscure - can't imagine my local supermarket sells spaghetti squash. I think you eat a lot more squash in the States.

    Thanks for the advice guys.
  • JBinSFO

    Posts: 90

    Sep 17, 2013 3:32 PM GMT
    The reality is that you want to induce anabolism, and insulin is one of the most anabolic substances known. Most vegetables that you are thinking of including in your diet do not stimulate much insulin production.

    I don't know about leaky gut but here is my take on Paleo: The idea is that in ancient times, we didn't die of cancers and heart disease. That's quite true. We were dead by 30 from other things and never had the time to develop cancer and heart disease. icon_idea.gif
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    Sep 26, 2013 7:19 PM GMT
    I struggled for years to gain some muscles. Here are some high protein foods to consider. All the protein supplements out there don't make me feel good. Isolated proteins seem to to hurt my stomach. My stomach seem to like whole organic food for the micro-nutrients.

    1. Soft-boiled or nearly raw whole organic eggs. I eat 3-7 eggs a day for 5 years. This is my main source of good protein and good fat

    2. Peas, frozen, sprouted (raw), or cooked. Peas has high protein only after soy.

    3. Chick peas

    4, Seeds (not nuts). like raw tahini (sesame seeds), pumpkin seeds

    For leaky guts, use coconut oil (it's also a great energy source. Most of coconut oil is medium-chain-triglyceride, known for its stimulation of fat burning ability, as it get used immediately. Also plantain is used for leaky gut heals. I had leaky guts, but it's healed for 4 years now from good eating combination of lots of raw foods and probiotics of all kinds, especially kimchi and sauerkraut.

    My need for carb goes down to 1/3 or 1/4 from eating eggs. Recent publications show food cholesterol (from eggs or coconut oil) does not contribute to blood cholesterol. Of course one should test it on oneself to confirm it by taking blood panel test before and after a trial period of 3-6 months. Nearly all natural bodybuilder eats 6-12 eggs daily in their smoothies.
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    Sep 26, 2013 8:51 PM GMT
    This table shows associations of fitness words with foods in scientific literature. Check out the entries for testosterone. Some foods contributing to increase testosterone is horseradish, and mustard as in mustard seeds(yellow or brown)

    http://gogenes.org/fitness_foodsupp.php


    Nearly raw eggs are easier for digestion and retain ensymes. But soft boil eggs are close enough.

    Beware that olive oil is not good in excess nor by itself. A balance of emega 3-6-9 is VERY important. I made that mistake of using olive oil and that slow my healing and progress for years. Use coconut oil as it's much more beneficial. Coconut oil is the only food that has lauric acid beside mother's milk. It also has capryllic acid, which when combine with cilantro and chlorella, has been shown to lengthen cell telomeres, which allows cells to re-generate more.
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    Sep 28, 2013 9:12 AM GMT
    Cool. Cheers for that. I've looked into suppliers of virgin coconut oil - I'll definitely buy some icon_smile.gif

    I'll be beautiful before long...
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    Oct 15, 2013 12:07 PM GMT
    It's YOUR, darling.

    When will you learn the difference between you're and your?
  • Artesin

    Posts: 482

    Oct 16, 2013 9:08 PM GMT
    I didnt bother reading through, but, have you looked into chia seed? It's a complete protein and has a perfect ratio in it's nutritional profile. Coconut oil is also stated to aid in clearing up a leaky gut due to it's restorative properties, as are castor oil packs, and acidophillus pills (10 billion+ organisms). Asian markets seem to give the best price on coconut milk, and the best ive found so far without any additives is by Ayam. Im not o sure on this but buckwheat is a relative of rhubarb and does not have gluten, so it's essentially a fruit flour, may be easier to integrate in. If youre allowed any seeds or legumes, many can be sprouted at home in a jar, which will break down the cell wall and cause them to be easier to digest. Spirulina and chlorella by weight are 80% protein, you don't consume very much of them at a time but theyre a nutrient powerhouse. Asian markets also tend to carry purple sweet potatoes which taste like chestnuts, somewhat pricey (at least in leeds), but theyre high calorie and full of vital polyphenols.


    Here is what I do to seriously up my calories as a vegetarian:
    1 avocado
    mixture of banana/papaya/mango/pineapple
    1/2 can of natural coconut milk/cream
    1 cup of orange juice

    The GI on this shake is really low due to a high fat/fiber, which is also good for leaky gut.

    It usually hovers around 700 calories depending on the size of the avocado. This is a perfect way to integrate medium chained saturated fats, which will be burned for energy like carbs but without being stored as fat. The saturated fat also increases cholesterol production which produces testosterone and eventually HgH.

    this site looked interesting. http://realsustenance.com/putting-out-the-autoimmune-fire-how-to-eat-to-heal-your-leaky-gut/
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    Oct 18, 2013 3:51 PM GMT
    Thanks Artesin

    Had a look at chia - sounds great. Apparently its omega-3 is better absorbed than that of flax. Sounds perfect.

    As for coconut oil - I bought three tubs from coconoil.co.uk and I'm using it for everything!

    Like the sound of your shake with avocado and fruit juice.
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    Nov 03, 2013 12:42 AM GMT
    Be careful when supplementing BCAA. It is totally safe to do so, but it can be a waste of money. Most BCAA's that get eaten in supplement form don't even make it out of the stomach because the stomach acids will burn up the BCAA before it gets absorbed in the digestive tract.
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    Dec 17, 2013 12:28 PM GMT
    xybender saidThis table shows associations of fitness words with foods in scientific literature. Check out the entries for testosterone. Some foods contributing to increase testosterone is horseradish, and mustard as in mustard seeds(yellow or brown)

    http://gogenes.org/fitness_foodsupp.php


    Nearly raw eggs are easier for digestion and retain ensymes. But soft boil eggs are close enough.

    Beware that olive oil is not good in excess nor by itself. A balance of emega 3-6-9 is VERY important. I made that mistake of using olive oil and that slow my healing and progress for years. Use coconut oil as it's much more beneficial. Coconut oil is the only food that has lauric acid beside mother's milk. It also has capryllic acid, which when combine with cilantro and chlorella, has been shown to lengthen cell telomeres, which allows cells to re-generate more.


    I'm also struggling with gaining weight! Thanks for sharing all these!!!!