Feminish men can turn normally masculine?

  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 23, 2008 7:08 PM GMT
    Happened with one of my classmates who was extremely girlish and everyone used to mock him, some years later after graudating, I heard from another classmate that the guy had not only become normal but had also joined the military, even if hes gay or bisexual atleast he got himslef out of the camp, mind you he wasnt camp fem type, he was just totally girlish in behaviour.

  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 23, 2008 7:49 PM GMT
    why is being effeminate not normal?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 23, 2008 8:38 PM GMT
    It really sickens me when there is discrimination within an already discriminated against minorty group.

    Homie, if there is anything to learn from being gay, from being different, its that we need to embrace all differences, not just the ones we are sexually attracted to.

    Be yourself. Let others do the same.

    And we will all love ourselves and each other more for it.

    And thus attempt utopia?


  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 23, 2008 8:38 PM GMT
    Isen't being all fem, part of the act of being a queen?

    In my time working for the gay community. I would meet a male, man fresh out on the gay scene, and a regular youth, young man too. Then the next thing you know, you have a fully blown gay acting queen, fem. Will they grow out of it and be a regular guy again? Or will they be one of those old men who never grew out of it?

    Happy I seen this, as it prevented me from wanting to ever be gay acting, or a fem. I've always been content with being a man, a male, a regular guy.

    But I've also known fem guys; queens to grow out of being all gay acting, and become a regular guy; not str8 acting, they just start to behave like a man, and not a big girl. It's not that uncommon, as most of it is a girly act, and they grow out of it. But you still have queenie, fem acting guys at 80 who never matured and grew out of it.

    But also with being an Only Fag in the Village, The rules do not allow you to be fem, or girly acting. You must be a pure homosexual, but a regular guy at the same time. We have more in common with our str8 brothers, than we do the opposite sex, and have no need to be like em either.
  • MikePhilPerez

    Posts: 4357

    Nov 23, 2008 8:48 PM GMT
    fpkhan saidHappened with one of my classmates who was extremely girlish and everyone used to mock him, some years later after graudating, I heard from another classmate that the guy had not only become normal but had also joined the military, even if hes gay or bisexual atleast he got himslef out of the camp, mind you he wasnt camp fem type, he was just totally girlish in behaviour.




    He probably felt he had to change to stop assholes from making fun of him.

    There is nothing abnormal about fem guys. But there is something abnormal about guys that make fun of them.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 23, 2008 8:50 PM GMT
    fpkhan said...one of my classmates who was extremely girlish ...the guy had not only become normal but had also joined the military


    I might dispute your use of the word "normal" BUT...

    I knew a fabulous young drag queen, who wore his hair extremely long, and even looked liked a girl out of costume. And when he performed he was incredible, needing to wear little make-up, just some women's clothes.

    But after a few years he transformed into a more masculine guy, and stopped doing drag. He cut his hair short, and became like a different person.

    Perhaps my friend and yours were simply reacting to a delayed rush of testosterone, or they just had enough of the femmy scene. I think it's all "normal."
  • txsin

    Posts: 34

    Nov 23, 2008 9:42 PM GMT
    These days what exactly is normal? Really, what is it? Just because, someone doesn't do something or behave the way you do doesn't make them wrong. Have you ever thought that maybe he went to the military to serve his country as being brave, and maybe that you didn't makes you well...less of a man.
  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 19133

    Nov 23, 2008 10:31 PM GMT
    ItMoons saidIt really sickens me when there is discrimination within an already discriminated against minorty group.


    Yes, I agree. Some gays can be the hypocrites of all.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 23, 2008 10:41 PM GMT
    I think what is more important is that those of us that act in a more conventional way let folks know that we're gay / bi. That serves to bring down stereotypes more than anything.

    Folks that are flamboyant, femmy, outlandish, perpetuate an image that only REINFORCES stereotypes.

    That being said, if someone smoke, I sure don't want them on my payroll. They get sick. They smell bad. They spend time smoking, and so on. Same thing being said for fat foks. More days out. Less productive.

    Let's say someone applies with me that has purple hair and a nose ring. Like it, or not, that person will not get the same impression for the company as someone who is clean-cut, and articulate.

    It's important NOT to be all-accepting. Clearly, we can't have women in the office in halter tops, men in short shorts, or folks smoking, or farting, or whatever. My point being is that at some point we have a view of what's reasonable. E.g., wearing rainbow colors and acting like a fairy to our customers is not the image many companies like to present. That's just the real world.

    Now, if a person wants to tattoo themselves from head to bottom, they should be allowed to. However, an employer is not obligated to present that person as a representative of his company, nor to give that person a job. That's not prejudice, but, more choosing the sort of image that a company wants to convey to the public, and they have every right to do that.

    This has been tested in civil law. E.g. Hooters. Hooters does NOT hire guys to wait tables. Hooters does not hire fat girls. We go to Hooters to see scantily clad women...and see some Hooters. That is THE BUSINESS of Hooters.

    Screaming prejudice, and to be all-accepting is nice rhetoric, but, not reality. You wanna' paint yourself purple, fine, but, that doesn't mean I have to associate with you nor give you a job.

    I've been discriminated against by small folks, time and again, but, it's the world in which I live.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 23, 2008 10:48 PM GMT
    It doesn't matter either way to me. I used to be mostly masculine in my mannerisms, with touches of unisexual mannerisms, but lately when I'm having a blast with my girl friends I tend to fem up some. I'm not so bothered by it as I used to be. Hell, I even embraced it. I'm just gay so I believe I have the right to act as butch or flamey as I wish. It doesn't mean I can't do my own plumbing anymore, or fix a gas leak, or not do anymore landscaping. Hell, I still do all that, cook, decorate and go shopping with my girlfriends. I have noone to show off to, and no boyfriend of mine is going to force me to change because of their little insecurities either. So fuck it. Be as feminine or masculine or hop between the two as much as you want. It's your life, fucking just live it already!
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 23, 2008 11:10 PM GMT
    Yay for discrimination within minority groups and already naturally split into visually distinct subgroups!

    Why would we need to show a united front when we can bitch about useless behavioural mecanisms!?!
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 23, 2008 11:27 PM GMT
    I love it when people say in their profiles "looking to meet masculine men only!" I know of some effeminate gay men who do no choose to act that way... it is normal for them to be more feminine. I think gay guys can be quite shallow cause fem bois do the same sometimes "no fatties or old hair men please."

    Is it okay to have sexual preferences? Of course, but that doesn't mean you can't be friends with some guys who go beyond your sexual preferences (e.g. I'm not into older men personally, but on this blog the guys I have come to respect the most are older--they're awesome people.) Some guys don't know the meaning of tact, respect, and humility.

    This fem guy I know, I went to school with him. While I was "trying to change my sexuality," he was combating homophobia relatively alone. Instead of sucking up my guilt, I internalized disgusted feelings towards him... he was why people stereotype gay guys as fem.

    Many years later, when we found each other online and he found out I was gay, I sincerely apologized for not sticking up for him or standing up to the kids who bullied him. I cried a lot--because i felt like I was a homophobe enabler. Staying silent was like saying, "its okay to say homophobic remarks."

    I was luck enough to be born more masculine--since I can easily blend in with society. I sometimes wish i were a fairy boy... that way I could constantly fight homopobia on a personal level and i may just be more comfortable with my sexuality if I were fem.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 23, 2008 11:31 PM GMT
    i think ItMoons said it best and basically wrapped up the discussion in the beginning. no, femmyness isn't 'normal,' in that it's not the norm- hence, minority. but it is natural, or it wouldn't exist- i very much think that guys who are more effeminate have as little choice about it as we all do about being gay. sure they could suppress it if they had to, but why should that ever be the case? i'm not attracted to it at all- in fact it sometimes makes me uncomfortable, to be candid and honest- but then i feel the same toward morbidly obese people lol. and unlike the obese, the fems have no control over it- so i say live and let live and power to 'em.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 24, 2008 12:00 AM GMT
    czarodziej saidbut then i feel the same toward morbidly obese people lol. and unlike fatties, the fems have no control over it- so i say live and let live.


    "Ya I can't stand them fatties either. Why don't the just stop eating every single sec and work out... like me. I mean look at me--aren't i just God's gift to gay guys? Ya I know I know haha. But seriously, fat people are just lazy slobs with no motivation. Thinking about fat people naked is enough to make me want to vomit my previously consumed meal. Fat people always have control over their weight and should get to the gym.... they don't even try to lose weight... the just keep on eating. We should charge them more for their health care!"
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 24, 2008 12:02 AM GMT
    fpkhan saidHappened with one of my classmates who was extremely girlish and everyone used to mock him, some years later after graudating, I heard from another classmate that the guy had not only become normal but had also joined the military, even if hes gay or bisexual atleast he got himslef out of the camp, mind you he wasnt camp fem type, he was just totally girlish in behaviour.



    I believe one would have to suppress and engage his masculine abilities to make it in the armed services. I'm sure it's possible to alter the 'signals,' but why go to the trouble. What's the difference between someone altering their voice or putting their gestures in check, and doing the same and marrying a woman out of "normality"? I certainly have the ability to alter my voice to a baritone, instead of the Kathleen Turner-ish (drunk rich bitch) affect, but it would take too much effort to do so for my entire life. It's just like living a lie - it's just not what happened normally during puberty. We could all change quite a big deal about ourselves, but it's best to just let nature take it's course when it comes to these things.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 24, 2008 12:08 AM GMT
    cjcscuba1984 said
    czarodziej saidbut then i feel the same toward morbidly obese people lol. and unlike fatties, the fems have no control over it- so i say live and let live.


    "Ya I can't stand them fatties either. Why don't the just stop eating every single sec and work out... like me. I mean look at me--aren't i just God's gift to gay guys? Ya I know I know haha. But seriously, fat people are just lazy slobs with no motivation. Thinking about fat people naked is enough to make me want to vomit my previously consumed meal. Fat people always have control over their weight and should get to the gym.... they don't even try to lose weight... the just keep on eating. We should charge them more for their health care!"


    hahaha your a crack up icon_biggrin.gificon_biggrin.gificon_biggrin.gif you go girl icon_biggrin.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 24, 2008 12:18 AM GMT
    (snap snap snap) uh uhhhh, no u di-unt!

    lol sounds like u've got the gist of it though :p
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 24, 2008 2:01 AM GMT
    I knew i wasnt made for this world
    when i learned
    that someone with purple hair
    or tattoos on his/her face
    was undesireable for a job position because of such physical factors
    without even
    considering
    the mind
    behind
    the ink and paint.

    in a utopian society
    we would all be whatever we wanted
    and respected all the same.
    whether they are purple, tattooed, fem, fat, old, smoker, smelly

    obviously we do not live in that world.
    i weep for the future.

    im going to live in the mountains.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 24, 2008 2:24 AM GMT
    It is what it is.

    No one wants to lose sales.
    No one wants to pay top-rate medical insurance.
    No one wants employees that smell like an ashtray and are constantly sick.

    The reality of the world is that we have to be conformal to some degree.

    The military has cammies.
    The business world has their ties.
    Nurses wear their outfits, and so on.

    The NBA isn't going to hire me to play basketball, and I understand COMPLETELY why.

    The same way someone would not want fat men at Hooters, and so on.
    The same way we wouldn't hire a 400# fireman (ATT will NOT hire someone to work plant if they are over 275..and they clearly state it.) I sure wouldn't want 400 pound fireman if I was caught in a fire instead of someone able-bodied.

    It is what it is.

    The world isn't as simple as Utopia.

    The world is filled with standards, and expectations, and varying views about how image should be. It may not be perfect, but, in many ways, it makes sense, and it is, very much, the way of the world.

    Nope.

    At some point, reality, and common sense, come into play.

    Sometimes it doesn't seem fair (I've been told I'm over-qualified more times than I can count.) but it is what it is, and when someone tells me that I'm over-qualified, I understand that they don't want to invest in me, if I can double my money else where.

    The world owes no one. A business has every right to mange a certain customer image. A business has every right to manage their health care costs and absenteeism. A business has every right, and some obligation, to ensure that the person there is coherent (say, not using drugs, or is of sound mind and body).

    Nothing to do with prejudice, but, everything to do with standards.

    Certainly, there is a fine line, but, most of us would agree that Hooters wouldn't be Hooters without the girls, and that Chippendale's wouldn't be Chippendale's without the hot guys, and so on.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 24, 2008 2:32 AM GMT
    if you are reading my message as staunchly nonconfomist, you greatly misread me. even being nonconformist is conformist in itself.

    the reality of the world is that we are all flaming escaped mental patients.

    Some are just better at hiding it than others.

    and no amount of ties, cammos or scrubs are going change that.

    but they do a pretty good job of hiding it.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 24, 2008 2:35 AM GMT
    As far as "flamers" go, we all know flamers that can turn it off and on and that their flaming is an attention getting mechanism.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 24, 2008 2:40 AM GMT
    Somebody call the press. Roy Cohns back from the dead.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 24, 2008 2:45 AM GMT
    ItMoons said
    im going to live in the mountains.


    Mars, dude, Mars. We're all moving there. icon_biggrin.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 24, 2008 3:35 AM GMT
    For the OP

    I've never met a gay/bi man who didn't have that peculiar queerness about him. Whether you think its just a weird otherness or a "softness", its something. Whether they're club twinks, or drag queens, or closeted jocks, or Log Cabin Republicans, BMX country boys, thugs in the heart of L.A...theres that lingering oddity.

    Whenever I hear a guy rant about "flammers", whether online or in person, I believe "the lady doth protest too much" is THE spot on commentary of such rant.

    That "peculiar queerness" takes on another form too. Some guys bypass that "softness" aspect and take on a hyper-masculine personality like they're trying too hard.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 24, 2008 5:34 AM GMT


    What the heck is 'normally masculine'? Is there a test?

    Feminish men. You mean the straight ones or the gay ones?

    Now we know some Flemish men who are very sweet...oh...Bill says never mind.