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old question, new approach..

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Nov 23, 2008 8:09 PM GMT

so

i'm only attracted to men who act 'straight.' psychoanalyze all you want, but that strong, confident, masculine jock type is just what i go for. the problem is that all the men i see/meet who fit the bill.... ARE straight. i know i know, this has been brought up before- i'm not whining about the unfairness of it all, its a segue into my question:

how should i tackle this problem? out there, in the real world, when i see a man who makes my stomach knot up and my heart beat faster, what do i do? some may offer as advice that i do the whole 'make eye contact' thing... but a lot of really butch gay men are just as scared of making eyes at the wrong guy as the rest of us- so that may not work. aside from that, what else is there? i've figured there's nothing one CAN do besides walking away, or having the balls to just go up and ask- i've done that three times in the last week at my school rec center and was politely (to their credit) shot down. it was embarrassing but not the end of the world... i wouldn't mind doing it again, aside from how predatory it makes me feel... but my hopes are pretty low that that haphazard approach will ever bear fruit. any other ideas/suggestions?

especially from those of you who ARE impossible to spot as being gay?

MikePhilPerez

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Nov 23, 2008 8:24 PM GMT

If you don't mind me asking, what exactly have you asked them? Why not just try and be friends with them first? Let them get to know you.

And welcome back

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Nov 23, 2008 8:33 PM GMT

You know what is really tough to do? Go to a bar and find a furry. Not only are they are minority in a minority community, but the outward signs that they like to put on fur suits and rut like wolves are pretty subtle. How they find each other, and how you can find guys of your type, is through networking. Letting your friends know what kind of guys you find attractive can lead to meeting these guys, meeting their friends, and building a blackbook of hotties.

god speed.

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Nov 23, 2008 8:52 PM GMT

thanx guys- that's good advice- though all my friends are interior design girls and frat guys lol... so i have no networking options as regards my love life..

and what do i say? well, i never professed to be debonaire or seductive lol... its pretty awkward actually... after watching these amazing men lifting in the gym or doing whatever it is they're doing for a while, careful not to stare, i'll pluck up my courage, walk over, and say something like "hey... (they look up at me a bit startled).. i'm pretty sure i know the answer already (sheepish grin).. and i hope you take this as flattery instead of feeling threatened or anything, but i was wondering if you'd be interested in my number (or hanging out sometime, or getting a drink sometime- depends)... " and it takes a half second for the realization to register on their faces, then they suddenly laugh or blush or both and stammer something about no, they're not 'like that' but sorry, and no offense taken... and i walk away proud of myself for trying, but mostly feeling embarrassed and dejected. im just lucky no one's started yelling at me or punched me yet.

im mostly wondering if there's a better way of approaching them, or knowing before hand better who to approach, or even places i can go to help assuage the situation, or best yet, what i can do to attract THEM to ME instead of feeling like i'm hunting for (insert some clever analogy involving invisibility or something).

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Nov 23, 2008 9:00 PM GMT

czarodziej saidsoi'm only attracted to men who act 'straight.' psychoanalyze all you want, but that strong, confident, masculine jock type is just what i go for. the problem is that all the men i see/meet who fit the bill.... ARE straight.

Some gay men also fit your "bill." I likewise prefer men who are outwardly straight, but inwardly, and actually, gay. Your problem may be your population pool where you live. Such "straight" (masculine) gay men do exist.

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Nov 23, 2008 9:06 PM GMT

yeah, that's exactly what i mean- the ILLUSION of unobtainability perhaps, but ideally i'd like to actually obtain it one day lol. its not just the 'unobtainability' aspect of it i like though, nor is it entirely the complexes im sure i developed in school mandatory public group gym showers, crushing on the popular jocks i was simultaneously intimidated by lol... i just really am attracted to masculine guys- i'm 'male normative' myself but tend to take the 'wifey' role in a relationship.

i have been convinced for a long time now that the population of where i'm from is a major factor. at home in Maryland, i can't explain it, but at school in cincinnati its obvious enough; its so conservative that all the gay men are either too closeted to be counted as gay, or they move to a real city as soon as they can lol.

my questions stand though... particularly for those on the other side of the glass wall, so to speak..

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Nov 23, 2008 11:27 PM GMT

I think all the advice others have given is right on. Networking is tried and true. But I also think you seem to have your own way of approaching guys, which - while not successful yet - hasn't landed you in any trouble either.

I have a friend who reminds me of you in that he seems to be able to approach guys pretty directly and to tolerate (frequent) rejection. One day I asked about how he handles being turned down with such apparent ease since I am much more calculating and risk averse. His answer was priceless. He said, 'As long as I keep trying, every rejection gets me one guy closer to the one who will say yes". FYI: he's with a great guy now. So take heart and keep your chin up.

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Nov 24, 2008 2:28 AM GMT

Good question. I'm caught in the same situation (see "The sexiest guys are straight" thread). The last guy I approached (my neighbour) also said he wasn't "like that." It may be where you live but I can tell you that it's just as bad in the city. The other problem is that the rare couple of times I have found someone on RJ it always just ends up that they want to be friends with benefits.

The only advice I can give is to maybe try to approach them somewhere more modest (i.e. NOT IN THE GYM). If the guy is not really cavalier about being gay then he probably feels awkward about being asked out in public like at the gym. Especially cause that makes other people think he's "that gay guy at the gym." So maybe (without outright stalking the guy) try to catch him coming out of the gym or on the street somewhere or wherever is more private. If you recognize each other in a more private setting then it MIGHT change his answer. Just a thought mind you.

Man all this predator hunting is so unnecessarily difficult. Let me know if you find an easier way. Phew I'm tired.

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Nov 24, 2008 3:26 AM GMT

Czarodziej, you've a clever mind and wit, an eloquent presentation that's interestingly frank and down-to-earth, couple with a wicked sense of humour.

So, how about approaching a guy after watching him with your humourous lenses on? Ace a one-liner that has nothing to do with anything other than making him laugh, and get him interested in a camaraderie-type friendship. People open up real well this way. After a few meetings, you guys could go to a juice bar or a run. Getting to know someone before any suggestion of you-know-what can work great if you're looking for something with meat to it. er, did I say that?

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Nov 24, 2008 3:37 AM GMT

Become that which you want.

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Nov 24, 2008 3:46 AM GMT

meninlove said

Czarodziej, you've a clever mind and wit, an eloquent presentation that's interestingly frank and down-to-earth, couple with a wicked sense of humour.

So, how about approaching a guy after watching him with your humourous lenses on? Ace a one-liner that has nothing to do with anything other than making him laugh, and get him interested in a camaraderie-type friendship. People open up real well this way. After a few meetings, you guys could go to a juice bar or a run. Getting to know someone before any suggestion of you-know-what can work great if you're looking for something with meat to it. er, did I say that?

ha, thanx- very insightful and clever advice

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Nov 24, 2008 3:57 AM GMT

Do you really need to date someone based on their body? or your perception of their masculinity?

My suspicion is that the introduction of such things into your "objectives" for the person your dating reflects something of your own insecurities about yourself, or maybe issues with identity, or maybe insecurities with regard to relationships. I don't think this is uncommon, and I don't mean this as a criticism at all. But I do think healthy 'objectives' for relationships are more along the lines of emotional support, sexual expression, companionship, and though none of these depend on body type, they do open up issues of vulnerability.

Love yourself, Czarodziej, and look for someone who will be kind to you.

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Nov 24, 2008 4:01 AM GMT

lol as i said, u can psychoanalyze all you want- the fact remains that if i don't have the butterflies in my gut for someone, its not gonna happen later on- i know from experience u can't force attraction. and i can't help what i'm attracted to- we all have our preferences. even you, i'm sure. i DO look for someone who has those emotional and personality and value-based aspects... but one's masculinity and level of fitness is an overarching thing that has a reasonable affect on my physical attraction to a guy, which comprises an in-ignorable percentage of a healthy relationship.

i've dated guys before who weren't physically attractive, thinking it was shallow to discount them for that reason, and because they were 'good guys' with good personalities.... but over time, the fact that i just wasn't attracted to them bred resentment and awkwardness, and the sex life was next-to-nothing. meanwhile they fell in love, and it went unreciprocated, though i tried to force it on my part for their sakes, making things even unhealthier. i've discovered that you can't put one part of a person or a relationship's dynamics above the others- you need it all to align properly if you want it to last.

what you suggest i'm after seems to be the opposit of this scenario- a hot body/good lay, with a crappy personality. i'm not sure where you get that from in what i said, but i'm sure it'd be just as unhealthy, you don't have to tell me twice lol.

just once (cause once is all you need), i'd like to find the guy who was made for me. not perfect- i know that doesn't exist and god knows im flawed enough for two lol- but ideal for ME. if he exists at all, he's out there already- i just want to meet him. sigh

but all of that's way more depth than i intended to go into with this thread lol..

that said, thanks for the last sentence there- it softens your somewhat inflammatory assumptions, and is good advice for anyone

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Nov 24, 2008 4:12 AM GMT

czarodziej saidlol as i said, u can psychoanalyze all you want- the fact remains that if i don't have the butterflies in my gut for someone, its not gonna happen later on- i know from experience u can't force attraction. and i can't help what i'm attracted to- we all have our preferences. even you, i'm sure.

that said, thanks for the last sentence there- it softens your inflammatory assumptions, and is good advice.

UGH. What the fuck do you want? You just can't have it both ways! You want to "tackle this problem" but you've decided that you can't psychologically solve your psychological problem.

(I'm going to take one more step toward metamorphing into Chuckystud)

You obviously have the solution to your problem. Either use it or accept that you're just never gonna get the guy you want. BTW. The guys your pining for typically go for each other. Are you one of them? If not, I'd try knocking the standards down a notch or just accept the fact you're looking foward to a couple of more years or decades alone and get on with your single life.

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Nov 24, 2008 4:16 AM GMT

ok, not only does none of that seem to have any real bearing on what we're actually discussing here (approaching 'str8 acting' guys in public), but it was just plain rude and meant to insult. with cussing no less! i don't even know who you are, so i couldn't have offended you.... i'm not sure who ran over your dog today, or if you got fired from work, so i'll let it slide, but seriously man, we don't need that kind of negativity. this is meant to be a constructive thing here.

we're not discussing psychological problems, and i never mentioned wanting anything one way or another or both- so i suggest if you want to contribute in a positive manner, you read everything again a bit more carefully.

flagrant insults with no foundation are unwelcome here.

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Nov 24, 2008 4:20 AM GMT

czarodziej saidlol as i said, u can psychoanalyze all you want- the fact remains that if i don't have the butterflies in my gut for someone, its not gonna happen later on- i know from experience u can't force attraction. and i can't help what i'm attracted to- we all have our preferences. even you, i'm sure.

that said, thanks for the last sentence there- it softens your inflammatory assumptions, and is good advice.

I make no assumptions (but are you?) because I don't know you. I am not psychoanalyzing because Freud is very much out of date these days. I don't mean to be inflammatory.

You asked the question: how do I get the "hot" guy? But I think what you really should be asking what do I need out of a relationship... and what can I give?

I don't know. I've met cute emo kids who dress up as drag queens and I ended up being attracted to them. I've met flaming guys who I ended up being attracted to.. and others decidedly not! I've met butch gruff guys with no reaction for me... and others I just wanted to fuck the brains out of (or be fucked by).

You're probably not like me. But I think most people are too narrow and too closed-minded.... most people make closets for themselves by constraining possibility, or by ritualizing sexual expression. Just make sure you're not one of them, okay?

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Nov 24, 2008 4:24 AM GMT

Hey CZ -- You're young, you're very hot and you have plenty of time to find the guy you want -- he's out there... masculine and all... don't worry

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Nov 24, 2008 4:25 AM GMT

czarodziej saidok, not only does none of that seem to have any real bearing on what we're actually discussing here (approaching 'str8 acting' guys in public), but it was just plain rude and meant to insult. cussing no less! i don't even know who you are, so i couldn't have offended you.... i'm not sure who ran over your dog today, or whether or not you got fired from work, so i'll let it slide, but seriously man, we don't need that kind of negativity. this is meant to be a constructive thing here.

flagrant insults with no foundation are unwelcome here.

I'm going to morph completely into Chuckystud now...god help me.

Grow some balls mister. You've put your situation out here for all to see and critique. What did you expect?

You asked how to approach straight-acting guys in public while admitting to knowing how to doing just that and then you say something to the effect of "I know how to do it but I'm too scared."

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Nov 24, 2008 4:26 AM GMT

Oh, to actually answer your question, the best way to get hot guys is to do something cool like surfing, kiteboarding, mountaineering or snowboarding. They're all fun people, but rather rare in gay society. They're worth their weight in *platinum* believe me. Travel, join a gay football team but most of all do things *you like to do*, and look for gay guys there. Look at what you dislike about gay society (and your relationship with it) and do the opposite. Be out be proud and be a beacon of shining light to all the other gay people. Be *brave*. Be *empowered*.

To be honest, whether you have insecurities or not (I don't have a clue) I think this is actually the best way to resolve them in any case... and you'll probably find a hot guy too!

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Nov 24, 2008 4:27 AM GMT

totally valid- thanx for the clarification- i agree on every point. i'm not one of those- i try to be fair and several layers deeper than surface level whenever possible.

just wondering how, given my tastes, i can safely approach them outside of cyberspace, or know how to spot them in public in the first place, or how to put myself out there for them to approach me. not a difficult question- i'm glad for the several constructive suggestions i've gotten

(thanx guys)

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Nov 24, 2008 4:32 AM GMT

czarodziej saidi try to be fair and several layers deeper than surface level whenever possible.

Could you explain what this means?

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Nov 24, 2008 4:32 AM GMT

citizensol- what i expected was for everyone to be mature and grown-up, rather than casting stones to see if i cringe and bleed.

and i never said i know how to approach straight acting gays in public, i said i have a way of approaching, awkwardly, straight guys i hope- distantly- are gay. there's a difference. what i'm asking for is a way to bridge that difference.

again, if you're not going to read the posts, don't bother. and if all you're going to do is instigate, then do so elsewhere.

morph into chuckystud all you want- i don't know why you'd want to- he's not very well liked or useful- but whatever floats your boat.... its kinda like invoking satan the accuser lol... just don't expect us to listen.

you obviously don't intend to help out here, so i'm not acknowledging any more of your posts. try and have a good night.

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Nov 24, 2008 4:33 AM GMT

czarodziej saidi walk away proud of myself for trying, but mostly feeling embarrassed and dejected.

You should feel proud of yourself. Very proud. You've got far more guts than I do.

And I was going to say just what Zombie said. Networking is the only way I've met attractive guys who aren't obvious queens.

But think beyond the group you hang out with now. Networking by definition involves expanding your circle of acquaintances.

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Nov 24, 2008 4:34 AM GMT

Do you actively seek 'feminine' characteristics in guys you meet? For example if you meet a pretty great guy, let's say um... a cowboy

, and you get to like him, but you discover that he's using um... facial products or that he likes collecting barbie dolls, would you automatically withdraw interest?

The degree of flexibility of your 'tastes' is important methinks. The narrower you make it, the more difficult it is for you. Learn to like people's quirks as they are. Learn to discover the goodness in other people no matter what bad traits they might have. A lot of us are mostly good people, except for the myriad tiny flaws that mar each of us. Because there is no perfection.

Also there are 'laws'... LOL.

-The brawnier the guy, the less likely he'll have much in terms of brains or empathy. Not true in a lot of cases, but certainly true in a majority of the cases.

-The more attractive the guy, the less likely he's available. (Or down-to-earth for that matter)

-And lastly, the straighter he looks, the more likely HE IS straight, heh.

However, I get you when it comes to tastes. Hard to change it, and even if you do, you can only do so gradually.

In terms of looking for them, I dunno, really.

Internet obviously, sounds like a good start to at least be assured of their gayness. LOL Gay sports too, of course.

In this case, the best advice I think is noren's. It's certainly what I am following right now, LOL.

Become that which you want.

P.S. Also 'pity dating' is never good, imo. For both parties. Be honest. If there really is no attraction, cut it short.

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Nov 24, 2008 4:38 AM GMT

TigerTim said
czarodziej saidi try to be fair and several layers deeper than surface level whenever possible.

Could you explain what this means?

fair as in not dismissing guys off-the-bat because they're not some shining golden ideal of the all-american-jock. deeper than surface level meaning i'm about so much more than looks.... but what i meant by sharing my past efforts at ignoring physicality in favor of those deeper things, was to illustrate that it all has to be there for things to work. one has to be physically attracted, dynamically compatible, and all the rest- you can't pick sanity over looks or looks over intelligence or intelligence over maturity or maturity over honesty. how futile would it be to find an amazing man... and both be utter power-bottoms in bed? -as an instance. compatibility has to be reflected in every level.

as far as flaws go- i know they're there, and i have a TON lol- i think a mark of maturity is the ability for someone to embrace another's flaws and find them endearing, rather than scrapping that person in an exhaustingly endless search for the unobtainably perfect. the trick is to find a guy who's flaws compliment one's own i think.

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