NRA sponsored televised elephant hunt on NBC

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    Sep 25, 2013 7:01 PM GMT
    I may have voted to kill the damn mouse in that other thread, but this is disgusting....

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/25/tony-makris-elephant_n_3989341.html
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    Sep 26, 2013 1:59 AM GMT
    kt8320 saidI may have voted to kill the damn mouse in that other thread, but this is disgusting....

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/25/tony-makris-elephant_n_3989341.html


    Maybe you missed this part:

    Controlled big game hunting still goes on in Africa and many reserves are set up by governments, who use money paid by rich safari hunters to fund broader conservation efforts. Elephant numbers in Botswana, however, have declined so greatly that a ban on hunting has been legislated. That ban won't come into force until next year.

    I'm guessing you're not a hunter? That would account for your not knowing that the fees from hunting licenses (around the world) are one of the biggest contributers to conservation. Maybe you also aren't aware of the necessity to cull herds to keep them healthy. Maybe you should take a look at what happened to the Kiabab Plateau deer herds from 1924 into the 1930s and the reason for the massive winter die offs.

    You can be disgusted all you want, but culling the herds is necessary to maintain healthy herds.
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    Sep 26, 2013 2:21 AM GMT
    shybuffguy saidYou can be disgusted all you want, but culling the herds is necessary to maintain healthy herds.


    But if that might only be true within given parameters of having limited herds to restricted ranges--even as seemingly required by human population growth because we refuse to regulate ourselves--then is it admirable to exalt culling as nationally televised entertainment?

    What percentage of NBC profits went towards conservation?

    And for all those meat eaters out there, be sure to tune in next Saturday when we'll be featuring in depth views of meat slaughterhouses nationwide. The family fun begins at 7 central time. (all commercial profits go to supporting your local pet shelters)
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    Sep 26, 2013 2:57 AM GMT
    theantijock said
    shybuffguy saidYou can be disgusted all you want, but culling the herds is necessary to maintain healthy herds.


    But if that might only be true within given parameters of having limited herds to restricted ranges--even as seemingly required by human population growth because we refuse to regulate ourselves--then is it admirable to exalt culling as nationally televised entertainment?

    What percentage of NBC profits went towards conservation?

    And for all those meat eaters out there, be sure to tune in next Saturday when we'll be featuring in depth views of meat slaughterhouses nationwide. The family fun begins at 7 central time. (all commercial profits go to supporting your local pet shelters)


    Really? If you don't want to watch it, turn it off.

    The reality is, I live in the Mtns. of the west on 2000 acres and, even with culling we see some extensive die off of Elk, deer, Moose and Antelope herds in heavy snow winters. I doubt that those of you living in the city have a clue about how much land it takes to support an elk herd or a wolf pack.

    As one of those people in that chain that produces the food you eat (I'm assuming you're a vegetarian), are you aware of how many deer and rabbits are killed to produce the vegetables for your table? Are you really so naive as to think that in order to produce the vegitables and fruits that you eat, there are no animals killed? Do you have any idea of how attractive a bed of lettuce is to deer and rabits? Do you really think that a farmer who depends on his crop for a living can afford to feed all of the deer and rabbits in the neighborhod?

    As far as pet shelters, maybe you're aren't aware that they are money making rackets. Ever wonder why, with so much money being donated to them each year they kill as many as 90% of the animals they take in? Ever wonder what happens to all those animals they kill at the shelters, you don't need to check much further than your pet food shelf at the supermarket.

    Lecture me, when you have an idea of what you're lecturing me about.
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    Sep 26, 2013 3:16 AM GMT
    shybuffguy saidReally? If you don't want to watch it, turn it off.

    The reality is, I live in the Mtns. of the west on 2000 acres and, even with culling we see some extensive die off of Elk, deer, Moose and Antelope herds in heavy snow winters. I doubt that those of you living in the city have a clue about how much land it takes to support an elk herd or a wolf pack.

    As one of those people in that chain that produces the food you eat (I'm assuming you're a vegetarian), are you aware of how many deer and rabbits are killed to produce the vegetables for your table? Are you really so naive as to think that in order to produce the vegitables and fruits that you eat, there are no animals killed? Do you have any idea of how attractive a bed of lettuce is to deer and rabits? Do you really think that a farmer who depends on his crop for a living can afford to feed all of the deer and rabbits in the neighborhod?

    As far as pet shelters, maybe you're aren't aware that they are money making rackets. Ever wonder why, with so much money being donated to them each year they kill as many as 90% of the animals they take in? Ever wonder what happens to all those animals they kill at the shelters, you don't need to check much further than your pet food shelf at the supermarket.

    Lecture me, when you have an idea of what you're lecturing me about.


    Oh get off that high horse and let me brush that dust off you.

    Look, I never said the culling should stop. I do indeed recognize the sad fact that by unchecked and mismanaged human population growth, animals now require conservation. It breaks my heart but I know it's true.

    My only point and I know you are smart enough to get it, I've read you-- but that my stupid little shelter troll upset you, sorry about that, my humor--is that culling for entertainment is wrong. You must know that. And that doesn't mean we should hide it either. And the hunting thing works out fine for both hunters and native areas with little other sources of income, but only and all within that twisted reality that we've set up for ourselves. Practical but not ideal.

    I'm vegetarian (mostly), not vegan which I've never thought even possible, simply as a matter of my own health and to try and reduce what suffering my living causes in the world. I get that animals die in growing a vegetable. But you don't shoot the cow just because it got into granny's prize tomatoes. Even there, is a difference.
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    Sep 26, 2013 4:15 AM GMT


    Maybe YOU missed this part:

    "Controlled big game hunting still goes on in Africa and many reserves are set up by governments, who use money paid by rich safari hunters to fund broader conservation efforts. Elephant numbers in Botswana, however, have declined so greatly that a ban on hunting has been legislated. That ban won't come into force until next year."

    Wow, ain't it nice they're getting in "under the gun".... but let's be clear: culling of elephants is not needed in this area of Africa.
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    Sep 26, 2013 4:29 AM GMT
    theantijock said
    shybuffguy saidReally? If you don't want to watch it, turn it off.

    The reality is, I live in the Mtns. of the west on 2000 acres and, even with culling we see some extensive die off of Elk, deer, Moose and Antelope herds in heavy snow winters. I doubt that those of you living in the city have a clue about how much land it takes to support an elk herd or a wolf pack.

    As one of those people in that chain that produces the food you eat (I'm assuming you're a vegetarian), are you aware of how many deer and rabbits are killed to produce the vegetables for your table? Are you really so naive as to think that in order to produce the vegitables and fruits that you eat, there are no animals killed? Do you have any idea of how attractive a bed of lettuce is to deer and rabits? Do you really think that a farmer who depends on his crop for a living can afford to feed all of the deer and rabbits in the neighborhod?

    As far as pet shelters, maybe you're aren't aware that they are money making rackets. Ever wonder why, with so much money being donated to them each year they kill as many as 90% of the animals they take in? Ever wonder what happens to all those animals they kill at the shelters, you don't need to check much further than your pet food shelf at the supermarket.

    Lecture me, when you have an idea of what you're lecturing me about.


    Oh get off that high horse and let me brush that dust off you.

    Look, I never said the culling should stop. I do indeed recognize the sad fact that by unchecked and mismanaged human population growth, animals now require conservation. It breaks my heart but I know it's true.

    My only point and I know you are smart enough to get it, I've read you-- but that my stupid little shelter troll upset you, sorry about that, my humor--is that culling for entertainment is wrong. You must know that. And that doesn't mean we should hide it either. And the hunting thing works out fine for both hunters and native areas with little other sources of income, but only and all within that twisted reality that we've set up for ourselves. Practical but not ideal.

    I'm vegetarian (mostly), not vegan which I've never thought even possible, simply as a matter of my own health and to try and reduce what suffering my living causes in the world. I get that animals die in growing a vegetable. But you don't shoot the cow just because it got into granny's prize tomatoes. Even there, is a difference.


    Like I said lecture me when you know what you're lecturing me about.

    What amazes me is that people like you say you understand something (not necessarily this subject, but any subject) and then you have all of these guidelines and parameters that the rest of us are supposed to live within so we don't upset your sensibilities, never mind what we want or think. I don't understand people like you who are always complaining about what some ones' reason for doing something is. Who cares what their reason is, as long as they do what needs to be done? The end result is the same and it doesn't matter if it's on film or not. What's so different about watching a hunt or watching animals eat each other on animal planet (they're both facts of life)?
    The reality is this, if you don't want to watch it then don't watch it. Everyday I'm faced with all of the shit from Hollywood and and the video game industry that are pushed at my children as entertainment. The only recourse I have is to keep my sons from watching some crazy pregnant sluts dating someone not the father of the baby they are carrying ( yes it's a reality show) or keep them from playing games where they can kill people and not have to understand what really happens when you kill someone .If I were to bitch about those things, people like you would tell me get over it and change the Chanel or don't buy the games if I don't like it. If you don't like watching a hunt, then don't.

    "Granny's cow" and the rabbits trapped and killed to grow your lettuce is a false equivalence. The cow still has a purpose as long as she can still give milk, the rabbits have no purpose to the farmer unless he decides to eat one for dinner. By the way if the cow goes where it shouldn't too often, we do shoot it!
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    Sep 26, 2013 4:41 AM GMT
    kt8320 said

    Maybe YOU missed this part:

    "Controlled big game hunting still goes on in Africa and many reserves are set up by governments, who use money paid by rich safari hunters to fund broader conservation efforts. Elephant numbers in Botswana, however, have declined so greatly that a ban on hunting has been legislated. That ban won't come into force until next year."

    Wow, ain't it nice they're getting in "under the gun".... but let's be clear: culling of elephants is not needed in this area of Africa.


    And maybe you missed this: "in Botswana".
    Elephants are stable in the rest of Africa and that is why the ban doesn't take effect until next year. If the numbers had dropped below a critical number in Botswana, the ban would have been immediate, not next year and the Botswana government would be making arrangements to bring in elephants culled from other African herds. An animal that brings in as much money as elephants do is a commodity that they are not going to allow to dwindle away.

    Not being a hunter and not really understanding such things, being so much wiser about such things than those of us who do hunt, I'm sure you are totally right.
    Like I said maybe you should do a little more research.
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    Sep 26, 2013 5:46 AM GMT
    shybuffguy said
    Like I said lecture me when you know what you're lecturing me about.

    What amazes me is that people like you say you understand something (not necessarily this subject, but any subject) and then you have all of these guidelines and parameters that the rest of us are supposed to live within so we don't upset your sensibilities, never mind what we want or think. I don't understand people like you who are always complaining about what some ones' reason for doing something is. Who cares what their reason is, as long as they do what needs to be done? The end result is the same and it doesn't matter if it's on film or not. What's so different about watching a hunt or watching animals eat each other on animal planet (they're both facts of life)?
    The reality is this, if you don't want to watch it then don't watch it. Everyday I'm faced with all of the shit from Hollywood and and the video game industry that are pushed at my children as entertainment. The only recourse I have is to keep my sons from watching some crazy pregnant sluts dating someone not the father of the baby they are carrying ( yes it's a reality show) or keep them from playing games where they can kill people and not have to understand what really happens when you kill someone .If I were to bitch about those things, people like you would tell me get over it and change the Chanel or don't buy the games if I don't like it. If you don't like watching a hunt, then don't.

    "Granny's cow" and the rabbits trapped and killed to grow your lettuce is a false equivalence. The cow still has a purpose as long as she can still give milk, the rabbits have no purpose to the farmer unless he decides to eat one for dinner. By the way if the cow goes where it shouldn't too often, we do shoot it!


    People like me prefer chatting with someone's intellect and with someone's heart, not with someone's attitude. I enjoy exploring ideas. You do not have my permission to inflict your anger upon me.

    You're welcomed to believe about people like me whatever you want, even if you are wrong. How's that for giving you free reign? How you have presented yourself, I don't give a flying fuck what you think.

    The cow example was not about equivalency but of intent. You missed that message too, on purpose, so that you could have something else to be angry about and then you tried covering your ass by saying that you'd shoot it too.

    I wish you well in dealing with what seems to be a lot of stress in your life.
  • conservativej...

    Posts: 2465

    Sep 26, 2013 4:32 PM GMT
    South Africa has been promoting the hunting of the Big Five -- Lion, Leopard, Rhino, Buffalo and Elephant -- at a renewed intensity. They also promote hunts of the hippo, as it can lead to more injury in populated areas than the other game oddly enough.

    An elephant will typically cost you around $35,000 in fees. The lion around $22,000. By the time you roll in transportation, other government fees, professional hunters and your porters, you're looking at $70,000 to $80,000 minimum. There are many Africans who will gladly fight you on this one if you wish to complain to to them. :-)
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    Sep 26, 2013 6:37 PM GMT
    theantijock said
    shybuffguy said
    Like I said lecture me when you know what you're lecturing me about.

    What amazes me is that people like you say you understand something (not necessarily this subject, but any subject) and then you have all of these guidelines and parameters that the rest of us are supposed to live within so we don't upset your sensibilities, never mind what we want or think. I don't understand people like you who are always complaining about what some ones' reason for doing something is. Who cares what their reason is, as long as they do what needs to be done? The end result is the same and it doesn't matter if it's on film or not. What's so different about watching a hunt or watching animals eat each other on animal planet (they're both facts of life)?
    The reality is this, if you don't want to watch it then don't watch it. Everyday I'm faced with all of the shit from Hollywood and and the video game industry that are pushed at my children as entertainment. The only recourse I have is to keep my sons from watching some crazy pregnant sluts dating someone not the father of the baby they are carrying ( yes it's a reality show) or keep them from playing games where they can kill people and not have to understand what really happens when you kill someone .If I were to bitch about those things, people like you would tell me get over it and change the Chanel or don't buy the games if I don't like it. If you don't like watching a hunt, then don't.

    "Granny's cow" and the rabbits trapped and killed to grow your lettuce is a false equivalence. The cow still has a purpose as long as she can still give milk, the rabbits have no purpose to the farmer unless he decides to eat one for dinner. By the way if the cow goes where it shouldn't too often, we do shoot it!


    People like me prefer chatting with someone's intellect and with someone's heart, not with someone's attitude. I enjoy exploring ideas. You do not have my permission to inflict your anger upon me.
    First of all, I'm not angry, not with you or the op or the original writer of the article. However, I am tired of people like you pretending you are more intelligent and morally superior than the rest of us and therefore, we need to sit back and shut up and let you tell us what to think. As for your permission, that's your morally superiority coming out, I don't need your permission for anything, thanks.

    You're welcomed to believe about people like me whatever you want, even if you are wrong. How's that for giving you free reign? How you have presented yourself, I don't give a flying fuck what you think.
    Again you're showing your morally superior streak, I don't need free reign from you for anything.You're assuming far too much to assume that I would "give a flying fuck what you think" about anything.


    The cow example was not about equivalency but of intent. You missed that message too, on purpose, so that you could have something else to be angry about and then you tried covering your ass by saying that you'd shoot it too.

    I didn't miss anything you wrote. As for presentation, you're one to talk, each time someone doesn't agree with you, you pull out and dust off your moral superiority in much the same fashion as you did with the person trying to help you with healthcare issues in a different thread.


    I wish you well in dealing with what seems to be a lot of stress in your life.

    Actually, my life is pretty good, I just get tired of people like you who think you're morally superior to the rest of us. BTW maybe you might want to look in the mirror, it seems that you're the one with the anger issue and the attitude. You will forgive me for not being as intelligent as you think you are and as morally as superior as you think you are.

    You have a good rest of a morally superior afternoon.



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    Sep 26, 2013 8:06 PM GMT
    shybuffguy said
    kt8320 said

    Maybe YOU missed this part:

    "Controlled big game hunting still goes on in Africa and many reserves are set up by governments, who use money paid by rich safari hunters to fund broader conservation efforts. Elephant numbers in Botswana, however, have declined so greatly that a ban on hunting has been legislated. That ban won't come into force until next year."

    Wow, ain't it nice they're getting in "under the gun".... but let's be clear: culling of elephants is not needed in this area of Africa.


    And maybe you missed this: "in Botswana".
    Elephants are stable in the rest of Africa and that is why the ban doesn't take effect until next year. If the numbers had dropped below a critical number in Botswana, the ban would have been immediate, not next year and the Botswana government would be making arrangements to bring in elephants culled from other African herds. An animal that brings in as much money as elephants do is a commodity that they are not going to allow to dwindle away.

    Not being a hunter and not really understanding such things, being so much wiser about such things than those of us who do hunt, I'm sure you are totally right.
    Like I said maybe you should do a little more research.


    The hunt WAS in Botswana, so you are quite right k8320. They guy blasted the elephant twice in the face, chased it a bit, then blasted it again and it died.

    ShyBuffGuy needs a real good taste of this:

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    Sep 26, 2013 8:46 PM GMT
    meninlove said ShyBuffGuy needs a real good taste of this


    I seriously just yesterday was looking for a Powder animated gif of him getting hit with lightening but only found a crappy one. Hadn't thought of that movie in years.
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    Sep 26, 2013 9:05 PM GMT
    shybuffguy said
    theantijock said
    shybuffguy said
    Like I said lecture me when you know what you're lecturing me about.

    What amazes me is that people like you say you understand something (not necessarily this subject, but any subject) and then you have all of these guidelines and parameters that the rest of us are supposed to live within so we don't upset your sensibilities, never mind what we want or think. I don't understand people like you who are always complaining about what some ones' reason for doing something is. Who cares what their reason is, as long as they do what needs to be done? The end result is the same and it doesn't matter if it's on film or not. What's so different about watching a hunt or watching animals eat each other on animal planet (they're both facts of life)?
    The reality is this, if you don't want to watch it then don't watch it. Everyday I'm faced with all of the shit from Hollywood and and the video game industry that are pushed at my children as entertainment. The only recourse I have is to keep my sons from watching some crazy pregnant sluts dating someone not the father of the baby they are carrying ( yes it's a reality show) or keep them from playing games where they can kill people and not have to understand what really happens when you kill someone .If I were to bitch about those things, people like you would tell me get over it and change the Chanel or don't buy the games if I don't like it. If you don't like watching a hunt, then don't.

    "Granny's cow" and the rabbits trapped and killed to grow your lettuce is a false equivalence. The cow still has a purpose as long as she can still give milk, the rabbits have no purpose to the farmer unless he decides to eat one for dinner. By the way if the cow goes where it shouldn't too often, we do shoot it!


    People like me prefer chatting with someone's intellect and with someone's heart, not with someone's attitude. I enjoy exploring ideas. You do not have my permission to inflict your anger upon me.
    First of all, I'm not angry, not with you or the op or the original writer of the article. However, I am tired of people like you pretending you are more intelligent and morally superior than the rest of us and therefore, we need to sit back and shut up and let you tell us what to think. As for your permission, that's your morally superiority coming out, I don't need your permission for anything, thanks.

    People like me don't have to pretend at all, never mind with people like you. It seems to come naturally for you that you can't see your ass from your elbow.

    For instance.

    Here's your ass: that you object to me saying there's something wrong with using culling to entertain on television (oh, and I can see it as a documentary, just not as a game show).

    Now here's your elbow: that you think there's something wrong with your kids' videos.

    And here's where you can't see your ass from your elbow: that you think there's something wrong with me seeing something wrong, but there's nothing wrong with you seeing something wrong.


    You're welcomed to believe about people like me whatever you want, even if you are wrong. How's that for giving you free reign? How you have presented yourself, I don't give a flying fuck what you think.
    Again you're showing your morally superior streak, I don't need free reign from you for anything.You're assuming far too much to assume that I would "give a flying fuck what you think" about anything.


    The cow example was not about equivalency but of intent. You missed that message too, on purpose, so that you could have something else to be angry about and then you tried covering your ass by saying that you'd shoot it too.

    I didn't miss anything you wrote. As for presentation, you're one to talk, each time someone doesn't agree with you, you pull out and dust off your moral superiority in much the same fashion as you did with the person trying to help you with healthcare issues in a different thread.


    I wish you well in dealing with what seems to be a lot of stress in your life.

    Actually, my life is pretty good, I just get tired of people like you who think you're morally superior to the rest of us. BTW maybe you might want to look in the mirror, it seems that you're the one with the anger issue and the attitude. You will forgive me for not being as intelligent as you think you are and as morally as superior as you think you are.

    You have a good rest of a morally superior afternoon.





    I'm not even going to rummage through the rest of your shit. You seriously need therapy. The violence of your kid's videos are the least of their problems. Feel free to click me onto ignore. I'm certainly clicking ignore on you immediately.