Responsibility on the Net

  • GQjock

    Posts: 11649

    Nov 24, 2008 10:47 AM GMT
    I was really disturbed when I heard about this
    Apparently down here where I live in SoFla
    a disturbed 19 yo boy .... I don't know if he was struggling with being gay or not but that doesn't even matter
    He posted that he was going to kill himself on his MySpace page
    He then took a bunch of opiates and anti-depressants on turned on his web cam

    hundreds of people logged on

    And NO ONE did anything ... the web Cam was on for 12 hrs I believe
    and this boy died as a result

    What do you guys think?
    I am very sad that no one had the decency to call for help even if they thought it was a joke

    http://www.nypost.com/seven/11212008/news/nationalnews/florida_teen_broadcasts_suicide_on_inter_140061.htm
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    Nov 24, 2008 3:27 PM GMT
    omg! This speaks volumes about our culture on a certain level. It fills me with both anger and sadness.

    I can't imagine witnessing something like that let at lone egging someone on to do it.

    I think in some states it would be considered a felony. Just as I said in an earlier post if someone says that to you they must be taken seriously.
    Then you have to go through the proper steps to get that person some assistance.

    The thing of it is that if someone is determined to end their life they is very little anyone can do and sooner or later they will succeed in ending their pain. I'm thank that he did not decide to take anyone else with him.

    I just hope that now he is at peace. One of my best friends and former roommate took his own life and he had been battling depression all of his life. One day he decided that he was done. Two days later he was.

    I believe that he is in a much better place because living here on earth was hell.

    This kind of reminds of me of that women who was murdered on her way home in New York and all of her neighbors heard her being brutally murdered and no did a thing, they did not even call the authorities.

    I can't remember her name but a book and a movie of the back in the 70's.
    This is just sad!

    I think we have moral and an ethical duty to act when we witness something like this. icon_cry.gif
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    Nov 24, 2008 3:28 PM GMT
    there was already a forum on this over the weekend. its sad
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    Nov 24, 2008 3:31 PM GMT
    I think this is one of those subjects that we can't discuss enough it could save a life. It's more important then the current forms which makes me want to clean out my brains with bleach! eh!
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    Nov 24, 2008 6:15 PM GMT
    Exactly!

    I have a person obsessed with me, MikePhil, who constantly throw insults at me and Flex89. He's a pest, but, just that...a pest.

    One of the things MikePhil does is to criticize me for telling someone to see a professional.

    Now, my degree is in computer science, and I'm schooled in logic. Logic says to me when I'm not able to help someone and that they are clearly symptomatic of something more serious the very best advice I can give them, as a friend, an acquaintance, or someone 1500 miles away, is to SEE A PRO.

    So many folks are complacent. A fat person doesn't get 400 pounds over-weight overnight. It take YEARS of self-abuse to get like that. It takes years of ENABLEMENT to get 400 pounds over-weight. Where were the brothers, sisters, friends, health care pros, as this fat person self-destructed?

    I think a person is derelict when they don't point out to a someone when they need help.

    Let me give you another example. If I have a weak body part, I can't coddle it. That lack of activity only makes it weaker. In order to make that part of me stronger, I have to work through it, even if it might be painful. To many folks are to willing to take no action other than to be sympathetic, or to act as an enabler.

    Now, it's real tough to get someone to stop eating, or to stop drinking, or to admin they have deep mental issues, but, to look the other way is even worse. That's the way of a coward.

    E.g., if you want to save a life today, help a fat person get off their ass. E.g. if you want to get someone to see a mental health professional, tell them so.

    Lack of action means nothing happens.

    Leadership, and doing the right thing, is not always pleasant, but, it is true to itself.
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    Nov 24, 2008 6:23 PM GMT
    GQjock saidI was really disturbed when I heard about this
    Apparently down here where I live in SoFla
    a disturbed 19 yo boy .... I don't know if he was struggling with being gay or not but that doesn't even matter
    He posted that he was going to kill himself on his MySpace page
    He then took a bunch of opiates and anti-depressants on turned on his web cam

    hundreds of people logged on

    And NO ONE did anything ... the web Cam was on for 12 hrs I believe
    and this boy died as a result

    What do you guys think?
    I am very sad that no one had the decency to call for help even if they thought it was a joke

    http://www.nypost.com/seven/11212008/news/nationalnews/florida_teen_broadcasts_suicide_on_inter_140061.htm


    I think to a certain extent people have become numb or distanced from real life events due to the impact of technology. How many times are people bombarded by images of roadside bombs killing and maiming, news about murders/suicides in a family (there was one in Toronto last week), etc.. What kind of video games and movies do many people like? Those involving violence and human suffering. For some people this was just another titilating event that they could observe but do nothing about.

    It is very sad this happened, but I am not surprised.
  • TallGWMvballe...

    Posts: 1925

    Nov 24, 2008 6:31 PM GMT
    This was a truly sad comment on us as webbers and society in general.
    We ALL have a responsibility as human beings to give help or at least notify authorities of this kind of thing, shame on all those who watched and did nothing!
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    Nov 24, 2008 7:06 PM GMT
    chuckystud3, you fucking prick, I love how you turned this from a statement about responsibility on the net with regard to someone committing suicide for a public audience to a disccussipon about your favorite topic -- obesity. Don't even bother to launch into your usual diatribe about how not confronting someone who is obese -- especially in your irreverent, condescending manner -- is the same as letting them die because it just shows how unbelievably fucked up your perception of reality is. The two are apples and oranges, but your general disgust and hatred for people who are overweight allows you to equate the two in your mind... which is the most despicable part of your post. Moreover, that you also turned this topic into your SECOND opportunity to slam someone else for "stalking you" -- an allegation which probably is, like the rest of you, blown out of proportion due to the steroids. This is why RJ threw you out in the first place and I hope they do it again... real soon!

    Now {deep breath}....

    The question that I have is this -- and it would actually be cool to get an answer from someone with a legal education, if possible: Since attempted suicide is not against the law in the State of Florida, the people who logged in to watch (assuming that they could be traced) cannot be charged as accessories to a crime, but can they be charged with assisting a suicide which apparently is against the law in Florida? While my gut tells me that it's probably impossible, given that some of the viewers were probably viewing this across state lines (or even national ones too), but is that a far-fetched thing to conceive? What about a Federal crime that stipulates the viewers' liability? Can Justin.tv (the website) be held legally responsible at all for providing the forum?
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    Nov 24, 2008 7:25 PM GMT
    Sahem,

    It is not a crime this is on of those cases where the law is still trying to catch up with technology.

    This is a matter in California where this woman and her daughter created a fake profile on MySpace which is base out of California and they pretty much battered this young girl so much that she committed suicide.

    The case had to be tried in California because there was no law on the books where the girl killed herself.

    The woman is not being tried for murder, but she is being tried on a felony matter that could get her a mandatory jail time of 25 years.

    It's just sad! I do not know if this young man's family will be able to get any justice because of this young man's history of mental illness.

    But at the very lease the moment that he said he was going to commit suicide somone should have alerted the authorities.

    They now have to live with what happen. This is quite a burden to bare.
    EH!

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    Nov 24, 2008 7:35 PM GMT
    Ducky44, interesting that you mention that case from California. It was the first thing that came to mind when I heard this story. I think the difference between that one and this (at least in my understanding of it) is that people actually watched the kid kill himself, unlike the case in California where the girl did not make an online spectacle of her death. That these people watched it happen and that some were supposedly egging him on (according to the article in the New York Post -- which is, still, the last place I would go to for a reliable account of anything), somehow adds to the insidiousness of the event and makes it seem criminal to me... "reckless endangerment" or something like that.

    But as you say, this is an area where the technology and the law are still leagues apart. Maybe I need to make this an area of special interest if I can get to law school... still gotta get through the damned LSAT first! icon_rolleyes.gif

    Ah well.
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    Nov 24, 2008 7:37 PM GMT
    I don't think people did nothing....What can you do other than notify the administrators of the site, who in turn notified the police. I think everyone did what they were responsible obliged to do.


    As for people egging him on, have you ever visited the bb.com boards they attract so many attention seeking weirdos for some reason. If this was a kid asking for help with depression and suicide, although it's hard to imagine anyone reaching out to bb.com boards as their first source of help, then yes egging him on is unethical,

    Yet if it was just asking for attention, The best policy would have directed him towards the appropriate professional and ignored him. Undoubtedly the kid knew he was going to commit suicide but just wanted an audience.

    The media if anything is the problem it teaches people the way to get in the public eye is to kill yourself on camera or shoot up a school/mall etc
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    Nov 24, 2008 7:41 PM GMT
    Yet if it was just asking for attention, The best policy would have directed him towards the appropriate professional and ignored him. Undoubtedly the kid knew he was going to commit suicide but just wanted an audience.

    Many suicides give warnings of their impending act. They do want attention, not for notoriety but for someone to give them attention and tell them "don't do it". This just so happened to be a very modern way of doing it.

    Contrary to popular belief, most people who kill themselves don't want to die, they just don't want to keep living the life they have, and don't know what to do to change it.
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    Nov 24, 2008 7:45 PM GMT
    czarodziej saidthere was already a forum on this over the weekend. its sad


    After your comments i find it hard to believe you'd think this sad.

    Chuck, as I've said in another forum, your a sad man, he was mentally unstable, not physically weak, theres a difference, but you wouldn't be able to see it.
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    Nov 24, 2008 7:52 PM GMT

    The young man was suffering from mental illness. The authorities should have been alerted immediately they were not. It hours after he actually took the pills before someone got a clue figured out they should do something and that he's not moving.

    If someone of this site said that you best believe I'm dropping the dime right away. Translation: It's means I'm telling someone.

    Worked a suicide hot line and when some says that they are going to do that it is to be taken seriously.

    Yes it is always a cry for help.

    You blame the media we have become so guarded and just the over all lack of humanity it's just sad.

    I don't know how anyone could watch someone commit suicide live on the web. That is just too morbid and disturbing to me. What kind of person would watch something like this let a lone egg someone on.

    It's CRAZY!
  • Koaa2

    Posts: 1556

    Nov 24, 2008 7:52 PM GMT
    Seems like I read that a lot of the people thought it was a joke until it was to late. I don't know, because I didn't see it. Who knows what was going through his mind and of those that were viewing it. No one knows for sure what goes on in an individual who kills themselves. I worked in the mental health profession for years, there is no one right answer to any of it, and if people tell you there is, take it for a grain of salt
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    Nov 24, 2008 7:53 PM GMT
    well, apparently he "numbed" his audience by making repeated threats to do this and never following thru. And it's not like they could reach thru the screen and take his pulse.

    There are people on here that I totally tune out....they could be threatening all kinds of stuff and I would never know.
  • GQjock

    Posts: 11649

    Nov 24, 2008 8:33 PM GMT
    I dunno ...
    It's one of those things where you hope you would do something different if confronted with a similar scenario
    even if they emailed the website ... something
    I don't think there should be laws written that website managers need to monitor whats being said because that's a slippery slope
    but this really isn't about laws ....
    It's about common decency
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    Nov 24, 2008 8:48 PM GMT
    GQjock said
    I don't think there should be laws written that website managers need to monitor whats being said because that's a slippery slope
    but this really isn't about laws ....
    It's about common decency


    Oh, I agree! Make no mistake, I agree 100%. I'm not saying there should be laws governing the 'net. I am curious about the laws that govern the consequences of this case, or how they could be interpreted in a court of law... mostly because I find the fact that people just sat and watched it happen so reprehensible.
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    Nov 24, 2008 9:04 PM GMT
    Sahem-

    Here are some of the details of that other case in California.

    Lori Drew is on trial in Los Angeles on federal charges for fraudulently using an account on MySpace. The indictment charges Drew in four counts -- one count for conspiracy and three counts "for accessing protected computers without authorization to obtain information to inflict emotional distress," according to a press release. The latter charge relates to the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act.

    None of this applies here. Lori Drew could not be indicted in Missouri because there was no law of the books, but there was however, this federal law on the books in California. That is the only way that Lori Drew was charged and held responsible for the suicide of this 13 year old girl.

    It's not murder which is what the teenage girl parents wanted but when it comes to the law of the land you take what you can get.



  • MikePhilPerez

    Posts: 4357

    Nov 24, 2008 9:35 PM GMT
    chuckystud3 saidExactly!

    I have a person obsessed with me, MikePhil, who constantly throw insults at me and Flex89. He's a pest, but, just that...a pest.

    One of the things MikePhil does is to criticize me for telling someone to see a professional.


    Chuckles, I think you need to see a professional. I would say more, but this thread is way too serious. And if you had any shred of decency in you, you would leave your own agenda out of it.

    May the boy rest in peace.
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    Nov 25, 2008 5:26 AM GMT
    For the record, I've never accused anyone on rj of stalking me.

    We did however, catch someone doing that with someone else this weekend, as well as a bunch of lies, morphs pics, and the like.

    Within minutes, of Logan, and I, being added to one guy's hot list, the stalker, sent both Logan and I, emails. We didn't know, and still don't know the guy who was being stalked. We documented all that and sent it along to RealJock's operator.

    Before all the name calling and the like, make sure you get your facts straight.

    I stand firm on my statement that when a person demonstrates actions warranting professional help, they should be told. You don't have to be an EMT, a nurse, or a doctor, when someone should be taken to the doctor's office. It's just a common sense thing.
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    Nov 25, 2008 5:26 AM GMT
    For the record, I've never accused anyone on rj of stalking me.

    We did however, catch someone doing that with someone else this weekend, as well as a bunch of lies, morphs pics, and the like.

    Within minutes, of Logan, and I, being added to one guy's hot list, the stalker, sent both Logan and I, angry emails, and accused us of being in a conspiracy with the gentleman he was stalking (we weren't and aren't). We didn't know, and still don't know (he's not our bud, is what I mean) the guy who was being stalked. We documented all that and sent it along to RealJock's operator.

    Before all the name calling and the like, make sure you get your facts straight.

    I stand firm on my statement that when a person demonstrates actions warranting professional help, they should be told. You don't have to be an EMT, a nurse, or a doctor, when someone should be taken to the doctor's office. It's just a common sense thing.

    Whether it's obesity, depression, or other disorders, it's clearly good advice to tell someone to seek a professional, in almost every instance. Again, that's just plain common sense.
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    Nov 25, 2008 5:38 AM GMT
    It is very sad to hear this.

    To anyone who is higher up in psychology than me, does the bystander effect apply in non-physical situations?

    The bystander effect occurs when someone is in need of emergency assistance, and it states that a bystander is less likely to offer assistance or get help when there are many people around. Basically, the more people around, the less likely any one individual will help in some way, because everyone assumes that someone else will do something.

    I would hope that there was some psychological phenomenon that explains this, besides people being sick enough to want to watch someone commit suicide.
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    Nov 25, 2008 5:41 AM GMT
    lol no one was caught doing anything...

    two creeps decided to say something stupid after someone made them feel good. Guys that arent hot has someone add them to their hot list.

    messages were sent to chucky and flex about why are they acting rude and to remove those lies on the forum. Real jock can see the original message, cant lie to them.

    chucky assumed that two guys breaking up had one story,the story of the one that added him to their hot list must be true.

    As for the morphing, there were pics that were badly edited and said so in captions.

    when it was proven that there was no morphing, just poor editing, the original pics were posted. After that there was nothing to say because chucky and flex were just slapped in the face with the proof.

    Someone is overly obsessed with the situation and has to post it in ever forum. Someone has no life and people are laughing at him.

    omg chucky get a life dude.


    YOUR POINTS AND EVERYTHING YOU SAY IS PROVEN WRONG EVERY TIME.

    YOU LOST MAN, GIVE IT UP....


    You keep saying im lying about something, dude you are crazy.
    I have the mental issues? everyone is laughing at you because you are being a loon on here.


    LIKE I SAID IN ANOTHER POST, I KNOW A WEBMASTER FROM ANOTHER WEBSITE THAT IS FRIENDS WITH THE REALJOCK WEBMASTER. I WONT BE A DICK JUST YET BUT IF I NEED TO I WILL CONTACT HIM AND YOU WILL BE BANNED FROM REALJOCK FOREVER.



    Photobucket
    Hi I'm chucky! waaaaaaanna play? I have no life and have to invade other lives.

    ha-ha is this where the picture game starts? Remember, the more you talk shit about me the closer you are to get banned.


    STAY ON GQjock's subject, stop being so crazy man.
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    Nov 25, 2008 5:45 AM GMT
    the movie "Untraceable" with Diane Lane was about this, except ppl were not committing suicide but were kidnapped then put on the net. a killng device was put in place that reacted based upon the nuber of ppl who watched. the more ppl who watched the quicker the perso died (drowing, electricity, fire). tons of people watched and with each new "episode" the person would die quicker cuz more and more ppl joined.
    unfortunately due to reality tv and the amount of violence on television, we are numb to these situations and will watch rather than help. hopefully this behavior will change in humans, but it is highly doubtful.