Why discussions of race don't get anywhere.

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Oct 04, 2013 7:05 PM GMT
    "Is there something wrong with me for only liking white men?"

    How many times does this question get asked. There is something so visceral for non white gay men about hearing anyone express this preference that we send them hate mail and bash them publicly. But if anything, they need our support. Because those threads are a great opportunity to move away from person to person interactions and discuss how the structure of gay media and culture cultivates such strong pro white bias in so many of us.



    Let's take a look at how women are sexualized in ads that market underwear.

    Note the diversity and the opportunities for sexualization of non white women



    Let's look at how gay men are sexualized in ads that market underwear.

    Note the endless parade of Sexualized white men with no minorities at all


    It's evident that in the straight world man advertisers feel the obligation to acknowledge the existence of consumers of color. They attempt to create a sense of diversity in their promotional material.

    Gay people feel no need to do this. Often times any form of gay media be it Print, TV, Fashion or Erotica is dominated by white men at the expense of men of other races. Gay men of color are literally treated as if they don't exist.

    White men (and men of other races who desire them exclusively) frame this phenomenon in terms of preferences. But preference suggests choice. If you can find non white men sexually attractive but choose not to engages them on a romantic and sexual level, you are a racist.

    But a lot of you can't. A lot of you simply can't get it up for guys who are not white. And the sentiment in most communities of color is that this inability is primarily a direct result of being conditioned to sexualize white male masculinity at the expense of ........everyone else.

    So the great new is YOU"RE OFF THE HOOK. No one is asking you to date them or take them to bed. What you are being asked to do is examine what it is about the gay community that creates such a wide chasm in dating satisfaction for white and non white men. That's it. Many of you are already set in your ways-cool. You didn't choose your particular programming. But by saying things like.

    "Some people like bread and butter some like bread and jam so why do we keep talking about this?"

    or

    "Its only a preference, theres nothing wrong if you like only white, asians, indians or whatever. Get over this topic already."

    It suggests that you don't care about the fundamental inequality that exists in our community (presumably because it doesn't affect you.)

    More importantly BY MINIMIZING THE PROBLEM OR SUGGESTING THAT MASS AVERSION TO MINORITIES IS INNATE...... YOU ARE DEFENDING THE WHATEVER ALGORITHM IN OUR COLLECTIVE CULTURAL PROGRAMMING LEADS SO MANY MEN TO PREFER WHITE MEN ANYWAY.

    The strange obsession with whiteness that exists in the community is not simply innate in all of us. It's a carefully maintained construct that is watered and fertilized everyday by the arbiters of what is sexy in our community. Just start by acknowledging that and maybe we can save the next generation of minorities gays from the self-esteem crushing lunacy that plagues gay men today.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Oct 04, 2013 7:23 PM GMT
    smallbutperfectlyformed said
    the fact that folks are trying to say that this shit is normal is proof of that because it's NOT. there's a difference between liking a guy who just so happens to be white where you think he's cute and liking a guy because he is white where you believe only white guys can be attractive. the latter thinking is racist.


    You can't even really call it racism.

    Racism is a choice. And if you CAN'T perceive attractiveness in other races, you've been robbed of something. A male lab won't refuse to made with a female german shepard because she's a german shepard......this phenomenon can only exist when complex social conditions come into play.
  • TannerMasseur

    Posts: 7893

    Oct 04, 2013 7:34 PM GMT
    "It's a white world afterall".....

    Every race has it's hotties icon_smile.gif .....

    Spread the love icon_smile.gif .....
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Oct 04, 2013 7:37 PM GMT
    I have said this before, but I like black guys. I like white guys (technically white guys are not even white!), Chinese guys, green guys, orange guys, purple guys, guys from the Middle East, blue skinned guys, grey skinned guys, etc etc.

    But the thing is, I said this earlier also, that white men in America are more likely to be less religious than black people. Black people are probably more likely be religious, believe strongly in Christianity, and they believe homosexuality is sinful and wrong.

    Now Western societies have increased in secularism, the advancement of biology, chemistry and physics. The study of homosexuality SUGGESTS homosexuality is LARGELY not a choice. We don't choose to be gay. This is back up by science. Over time, we accept homosexuality as part of NATURE.

    White men are more likely to come out of the closet and be open. The culture is different than say, East Asians.

    Yes, discussion about race is futile, but we need support from everyone.

    These are my thoughts and hopefully I am not mistaken, but if so, I am happy to change my view.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Oct 04, 2013 7:49 PM GMT
    “You know, equality is a myth, and for some reason, everyone accepts the fact that women don’t make as much money as men do. I don’t understand that. Why do we have to take a backseat? I truly believe that women should be financially independent from men. And let’s face it: money gives men the power to run the show. It gives men the power to define value. They define what’s sexy. And men define what’s feminine. It’s ridiculous.” -Beyonce
  • TannerMasseur

    Posts: 7893

    Oct 04, 2013 7:49 PM GMT
    smallbutperfectlyformed said
    spgem said"It's a white world afterall".....

    Every race has it's hotties icon_smile.gif .....

    Spread the love icon_smile.gif .....


    that's what white supremacist ideology wants people to believe. all forms of supremacy thinking is wrong. nobody is better than nobody. only thing that shit breeds is hate.


    I'm being sardonic dailynamechanger icon_smile.gif, eerily changing the word "small" to "white" in the Disney theme ride song "It's A Small World Afterall."
  • Generaleclect...

    Posts: 504

    Oct 04, 2013 8:41 PM GMT
    Dekiruman said


    Let's take a look at how women are sexualized in ads that market underwear.



    Hell, this ad would make ME switch teams.

    EDIT: But on a serious note, I think for a majority of gay men, this is a non-issue because it doesn't affect them in the same way it would affect gay minorities.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Oct 04, 2013 8:58 PM GMT
    Curious question: If you compare famous people who are out, how many white gay men has come out compared with gay black men?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Oct 04, 2013 8:59 PM GMT
    I know everyone's type is different, but seriously he's just hot:

    http://www.realjock.com/fullphoto/fe88e81fa37f0f8e233373f162ea11e5
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    Oct 04, 2013 9:01 PM GMT
    AnOriginal saidI know everyone's type is different, but seriously he's just hot:

    http://www.realjock.com/fullphoto/fe88e81fa37f0f8e233373f162ea11e5


    That's because he has a nice body. He goes to the gym and works out. Regardless of race.

    But would you find non-gym goers attractive? A bit chubby or on the leaner side? Gay men are stereotyped as fit and muscular, while those on either side of that ideal often feels left out.
  • AMoonHawk

    Posts: 11406

    Oct 04, 2013 9:10 PM GMT
    Write a book and see if any one will buy it.
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    Oct 04, 2013 9:27 PM GMT
    JasFriedman saidCurious question: If you compare famous people who are out, how many white gay men has come out compared with gay black men?


    And your point is what? That there aren't enough out gay black men to put one in the add I posted above?

    Weak argument.

    But you have opened up broader issue which is that they gay community is not creating an experience for minority men that makes them want to prothselytize about being out the way that white men do.

    Out white guys seem to be so much more invested in their gay identities than out black guys or out Asian guys, and there is a reason for that.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Oct 04, 2013 10:00 PM GMT
    JasFriedman said
    AnOriginal saidI know everyone's type is different, but seriously he's just hot:

    http://www.realjock.com/fullphoto/fe88e81fa37f0f8e233373f162ea11e5


    That's because he has a nice body. He goes to the gym and works out. Regardless of race.

    But would you find non-gym goers attractive? A bit chubby or on the leaner side? Gay men are stereotyped as fit and muscular, while those on either side of that ideal often feels left out.


    I actually need to turn on airplane mode and workout, but to answer your question I'm strictly a face guy. I've told guys, while courting, that as long as your weight doesn't affect your health, I'm content. I mean I like to hike and would like to be somewhat active with the guy I'm with. I don't find extremes on guys attractive: obese, skeletons, or steroid users.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Oct 04, 2013 10:03 PM GMT
    You're right - gay minorities have a right to be as objectified and sexualized as everybody else! Let's start posting pics.icon_cool.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Oct 04, 2013 10:11 PM GMT
    Oh my goodness, does this ever end in the Land of the free and the home of the brave?????
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Oct 05, 2013 1:12 AM GMT
    They say avoid politics and religion as topics, and I think race on RJ is another one.
  • TroyAthlete

    Posts: 4269

    Oct 05, 2013 1:56 AM GMT
    It's all true, Deki, and you hit the nail on the head as usual. But we've hashed and rehashed how homosexual entertainment culture conditions folks to value whiteness and devalue "the other" -- I don't think we need yet another thread to go over it again, no?
  • TannerMasseur

    Posts: 7893

    Oct 05, 2013 2:51 AM GMT
    TroyAthlete saidIt's all true, Deki, and you hit the nail on the head as usual. But we've hashed and rehashed how homosexual entertainment culture conditions folks to value whiteness and devalue "the other" -- I don't think we need yet another thread to go over it again, no?


    The whities will believe what they want to believe.....
  • TroyAthlete

    Posts: 4269

    Oct 05, 2013 2:58 AM GMT
    spgem said
    TroyAthlete saidIt's all true, Deki, and you hit the nail on the head as usual. But we've hashed and rehashed how homosexual entertainment culture conditions folks to value whiteness and devalue "the other" -- I don't think we need yet another thread to go over it again, no?


    The whities will believe what they want to believe.....


    Somehow, I don't think derogatorily and inappropriately referring to white people as "whities" is going to help the gay community with its segregation issues.

    But, this is RealJock -- where racial slurs flow freely.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Oct 05, 2013 3:04 AM GMT
    TroyAthlete said
    spgem said
    TroyAthlete saidIt's all true, Deki, and you hit the nail on the head as usual. But we've hashed and rehashed how homosexual entertainment culture conditions folks to value whiteness and devalue "the other" -- I don't think we need yet another thread to go over it again, no?


    The whities will believe what they want to believe.....


    Somehow, I don't think derogatorily and inappropriately referring to white people as "whities" is going to help the gay community with its segregation issues.

    But, this is RealJock -- where racial slurs flow freely.


    If someone called my mother a whitey I'd punch them in their face... Kidding.
  • TannerMasseur

    Posts: 7893

    Oct 05, 2013 3:21 AM GMT
    CopperDevil said
    TroyAthlete said
    spgem said
    TroyAthlete saidIt's all true, Deki, and you hit the nail on the head as usual. But we've hashed and rehashed how homosexual entertainment culture conditions folks to value whiteness and devalue "the other" -- I don't think we need yet another thread to go over it again, no?


    The whities will believe what they want to believe.....


    Somehow, I don't think derogatorily and inappropriately referring to white people as "whities" is going to help the gay community with its segregation issues.

    But, this is RealJock -- where racial slurs flow freely.


    Well I was just informed on my Bitch culture thread http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/3473249 that nasty personalities are held to the highest regard in the gay community .... which leads me to my next point. It seems that maybe alot of the poc ( people of color ) here on real jock are maybe too passive when someone hurls racial slurs at us. I mean the most openly racist person who was just banned from this site has been mourned repeatedly by numerous members ... Maybe we should start hashing it out because obviously nice isnt working.


    No one thought of dishing it back at it (Quasi / jmusmc) & calling it a
    wetback?! icon_smile.gif Fuck, when it made a thread about me I just put it in its' place icon_smile.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Oct 05, 2013 4:58 AM GMT
    Yeah, sure. Whenever white men get together to compile the races of women in terms of attractiveness, black is almost always at the bottom, just like this poll: http://www.ign.com/boards/threads/poll-which-race-are-you-least-sexually-attracted-to-pics.453229373/

    In fact, the "sexual unattractiveness" of black women has warranted scientific research, including a report on a national UK newspaper - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1388313/LSE-psychologist-Satoshi-Kanazawa-claims-black-women-attractive.html

    A British-based academic was at the centre of an international race row after citing ‘research’ that claimed black women are uglier than other races.

    The conclusions of Dr Satoshi Kanazawa have left one of the country’s leading universities mired in controversy for the second time this year.


    And here is the top-rated comment (2856 thumbs up) made by some guy named John:

    "I personally do not find black women ,in the main, attractive at all. This is nothing to do with racism it is purely down to what we find attractive ourselves.I think Indian women are very attractive so it is nothing to do with skin colour, more the underlying features, which in the Indian case are more like my white ones. I don't like the way that you can't voice an opinion like this without being given a racist label."

    Another interesting comment from a woman named Annie:

    "The reason why many people consider black women less attractive is that blonde hair ,blue eyes and fair skin have been held up as the ideal of feminine beauty for the last few centuries - and black women are the ones who fall furtherest away from this so called ideal. Black people have better muscle tone than most white people so their bodies are generally fitter. So a black woman of 10 stone will generally look more toned than a white woman of the same weight. Furthermore, there are so many black women - from the Caribbean and the Americas - who are so mixed, that even if they have "black" skin their features are what would be considered European whereas purer blooded Africans have "black" features - so there is too great a variety in black looks to dismiss black women as unattractive. Finally, I hate to play tit for tat, but he should conduct a study on why East Asian men are not considered attractive. Perhaps a black woman knocked him back!"

    More interesting top-rated comments:

    "The professor is partially correct. As a british-born african, I have also observed the perception that "black men are attractive, black women are unattractive". What the prof fails to consider is the role that media and social stereotypes play in this. Look at any magazine or movie that pushes "attractiveness". You'll see plenty of african men with shaven heads and bulging muscles and white smiles. You'll see very few african women. People respons to these subliminal messages. However, if a woman's beauty is measured by her ability to find a marriage partner, and bear lots of children, you'll find that africa has very high rates of marriage and children. So african women are clearly pretty attractive, to african men."

    "I know a few black men and they all have white girlfriends. They prefer white girls and say they don't find their own race as attractive....Rogerthecabinboy, North East, 18/5/2011 ..... I think you really need to understand the pressure to assimilate for a lot of these guys. It's not all about preference and a lot to do with being accepted into white british society. They have been taught that everything about them is wrong and bad from the curly hair to larger lips,so they choose to pick wives and partners that dont look like them to give the impression of some sort of social mobility and kudos. And there is nothing wrong with if that's what you want, they just shouldn't make out it's to do with preference when they are still giving black women a hard time when they see you with your white husband as has happened to me. Now as society allows women like me to be classed as attractive they are all coming out of the woodwork. If it's good for the goose it's good for the gander!!"

    "He claims black women are less attractive YET when white women have the features of Black women, they are held as 'stunning' 'most beautiful women in the world' etc... eg. Angelina Jolie's lips, Kim Kardashian and Jennifer Lopez' bums. Maybe he should do a study on that. Idiot."

    "I had to chuckle when I saw this. It's well known that yellow/Oriental/East Asian men are considered the least attractive, by women of all skin colours/ethnicities. I would be very interested to read Kanazawa's opinions about this phenomenon."
  • DarkSensation

    Posts: 715

    Oct 12, 2013 3:06 PM GMT
    So I've slept with most race and love it so far but what i do like more with white guys is not necessarily how they look, status and so on but rather how Laid back or Liberal they are.

  • jo2hotbod

    Posts: 3603

    Oct 12, 2013 3:17 PM GMT
    TroyAthlete said
    spgem said
    TroyAthlete saidIt's all true, Deki, and you hit the nail on the head as usual. But we've hashed and rehashed how homosexual entertainment culture conditions folks to value whiteness and devalue "the other" -- I don't think we need yet another thread to go over it again, no?


    The whities will believe what they want to believe.....


    Somehow, I don't think derogatorily and inappropriately referring to white people as "whities" is going to help the gay community with its segregation issues.

    But, this is RealJock -- where racial slurs flow freely.


    He shits out his mouth
  • TannerMasseur

    Posts: 7893

    Oct 12, 2013 3:22 PM GMT
    jo2hotbod said
    TroyAthlete said
    spgem said
    TroyAthlete saidIt's all true, Deki, and you hit the nail on the head as usual. But we've hashed and rehashed how homosexual entertainment culture conditions folks to value whiteness and devalue "the other" -- I don't think we need yet another thread to go over it again, no?


    The whities will believe what they want to believe.....


    Somehow, I don't think derogatorily and inappropriately referring to white people as "whities" is going to help the gay community with its segregation issues.

    But, this is RealJock -- where racial slurs flow freely.


    He shits out his mouth


    Yeah, the whities do shit out of their mouths ur right icon_smile.gif .....