Swiss Government to Vote on $2800 "Guaranteed Monthly Income" for Adult Citizens

  • Eli_jah

    Posts: 1391

    Oct 06, 2013 10:35 PM GMT
    I think this might be beneficial for a smaller nation like Switzerland. Of course, it wouldn't be sustainable here (but we do shell out 75 billion in funds for food stamps alone, so...)

    http://gawker.com/swiss-to-vote-on-guaranteed-28-000-monthly-income-for-1441514881
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    Oct 06, 2013 10:37 PM GMT
    [quote][cite]NeutralObserver said[/cite]I think this might be beneficial for a smaller nation like Switzerland. Of course, it wouldn't be sustainable here (but we do shell out 75 billion in funds for food stamps alone, so...)


    http://gawker.com/swiss-to-vote-on-guaranteed-28-000-monthly-income-for-1441514881

    ftfy
  • creature

    Posts: 5197

    Oct 06, 2013 10:43 PM GMT
    I thought Switzerland was more conservative, no?
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    Oct 06, 2013 10:46 PM GMT
    This idea is gaining traction with experts in Canada, too. An experiment was done in Manitoba with fantastic results. Employment went up; domestic violence and crime went down; school attendance rose, health costs declined The test gave convincing evidence being used by advocates as they discuss it in presentations across the country.

    This is a popular concept with the NDP nationally, as well as with the provincial NDP in PEI.
  • Eli_jah

    Posts: 1391

    Oct 06, 2013 10:48 PM GMT
    creature saidI thought Switzerland was more conservative, no?


    I don't think so. This is a country that houses the UN and Red Cross and hasn't been in an international war in 200 years. It is also one of the richest countries in the world, and known for its high quality of life.

    Hmm, I'm packing my bags now
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    Oct 06, 2013 10:49 PM GMT
    Not sure. That's pretty much like welfare. One can see the situation at Spain where Spaniards remain jobless!
  • Eli_jah

    Posts: 1391

    Oct 06, 2013 10:49 PM GMT
    Upper_Cdn saidThis idea is gaining traction with experts in Canada, too. An experiment was done in Manitoba with fantastic results. Employment went up; domestic violence and crime went down; school attendance rose, health costs declined The test gave convincing evidence being used by advocates as they discuss it in presentations across the country.

    This is a popular concept with the NDP nationally, as well as with the provincial NDP in PEI.


    Time to go back to the native land. icon_cool.gif *waves*
  • Eli_jah

    Posts: 1391

    Oct 06, 2013 10:51 PM GMT
    The_Tango saidNot sure. That's pretty much like welfare. One can see the situation at Spain where Spaniards remain jobless!


    No, it's not welfare, it actually serves as an incentive to work, and more importantly, to start businesses.

    The truth is America is no longer the land of opportunity. Everything that we have worked towards over the past 250 years is now going down the drain. The American government doesn't care about its citizens. We are viewed as debtors and workers, that is all.

    I'll keep my permanent residency, but I don't think I want to become a citizen of this country anymore.
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    Oct 06, 2013 10:54 PM GMT
    NeutralObserver said
    The_Tango saidNot sure. That's pretty much like welfare. One can see the situation at Spain where Spaniards remain jobless!


    No, it's not welfare, it actually serves as an incentive to work, and more importantly, to start businesses.


    Giving free money = Welfare

    Sounds like it to me.
  • Eli_jah

    Posts: 1391

    Oct 06, 2013 11:00 PM GMT
    The_Tango said
    NeutralObserver said
    The_Tango saidNot sure. That's pretty much like welfare. One can see the situation at Spain where Spaniards remain jobless!


    No, it's not welfare, it actually serves as an incentive to work, and more importantly, to start businesses.


    Giving free money = Welfare

    Sounds like it to me.


    And what is wrong with welfare? You do know what the word welfare means right.

    A government that actually supports its citizens will reap many benefits. The US and much of Europe is in a hellish economic state right now: high unemployment, massive credit card and student loan debt that is going to cripple the generation(s) coming up, and a sharply growing divide between those with resources and those without.

    If the citizens were to receive a SUBSIDY such as this, it would lead to more jobs, better jobs, and an economy that is run by the people and not greedy sociopathic elites.
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    Oct 06, 2013 11:06 PM GMT
    NeutralObserver said
    The_Tango said
    NeutralObserver said
    The_Tango saidNot sure. That's pretty much like welfare. One can see the situation at Spain where Spaniards remain jobless!


    No, it's not welfare, it actually serves as an incentive to work, and more importantly, to start businesses.


    Giving free money = Welfare

    Sounds like it to me.


    And what is wrong with welfare? You do know what the word welfare means right.

    A government that actually supports its citizens will reap many benefits. The US and much of Europe is in a hellish economic predicament right now: high unemployment, massive credit card and student loan debt that is going to cripple the generation(s) coming off, and a sharply growing divide between those with resources and those without.

    If the citizens were to receive a SUBSIDY such as this, it would lead to more jobs, better jobs, and an economy that is run by the people and not greedy sociopathic elites.


    I looked up welfare just now. That meaning is something a liberal would say without hurting anyone feelings.
  • Eli_jah

    Posts: 1391

    Oct 06, 2013 11:18 PM GMT
    The_Tango said
    NeutralObserver said
    The_Tango said
    NeutralObserver said
    The_Tango saidNot sure. That's pretty much like welfare. One can see the situation at Spain where Spaniards remain jobless!


    No, it's not welfare, it actually serves as an incentive to work, and more importantly, to start businesses.


    Giving free money = Welfare

    Sounds like it to me.


    And what is wrong with welfare? You do know what the word welfare means right.

    A government that actually supports its citizens will reap many benefits. The US and much of Europe is in a hellish economic predicament right now: high unemployment, massive credit card and student loan debt that is going to cripple the generation(s) coming off, and a sharply growing divide between those with resources and those without.

    If the citizens were to receive a SUBSIDY such as this, it would lead to more jobs, better jobs, and an economy that is run by the people and not greedy sociopathic elites.


    I looked up welfare just now. That meaning is something a liberal would say without hurting anyone feelings.


    Actually I have no political affiliation, hell, I'm not a US Citizen and can't even vote. I'm just not completely dead inside and actually care about the state of the world... I know, huge idea.

    But like I said, this wouldn't be sustainable in the US but for Switzerland, it could work.

    Also, this doesn't count as the US idea of "welfare" because these are not funds given to the down and out, but to ALL adult citizens, mostly gainfully employed individuals who will probably use the funds to cultivate their businesses or self sustain while doing so.

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    Oct 06, 2013 11:26 PM GMT
    NeutralObserver said
    The_Tango said
    NeutralObserver said
    The_Tango said
    NeutralObserver said
    The_Tango saidNot sure. That's pretty much like welfare. One can see the situation at Spain where Spaniards remain jobless!


    No, it's not welfare, it actually serves as an incentive to work, and more importantly, to start businesses.


    Giving free money = Welfare

    Sounds like it to me.


    And what is wrong with welfare? You do know what the word welfare means right.

    A government that actually supports its citizens will reap many benefits. The US and much of Europe is in a hellish economic predicament right now: high unemployment, massive credit card and student loan debt that is going to cripple the generation(s) coming off, and a sharply growing divide between those with resources and those without.

    If the citizens were to receive a SUBSIDY such as this, it would lead to more jobs, better jobs, and an economy that is run by the people and not greedy sociopathic elites.


    I looked up welfare just now. That meaning is something a liberal would say without hurting anyone feelings.


    Actually I have no political affiliation, hell, I'm not a US Citizen and can't even vote. I'm just not completely dead inside and actually care about the state of the world... I know, huge idea.

    But like I said, this wouldn't be sustainable in the US but for Switzerland, it could work.

    Also, this doesn't count as the US idea of "welfare" because these are not funds given to the down and out, but to ALL adult citizens, mostly gainfully employed individuals who will probably use the funds to cultivate their businesses or self sustain while doing so.



    It's welfare to me either way. I don't know whether to trust them or not. One can see past situation of countries who got free money. They turned into jobless Spainards! I think it might work in different countries. Switzerland is a small country and they feel responsible to me.
  • Eli_jah

    Posts: 1391

    Oct 06, 2013 11:28 PM GMT
    The_Tango said
    NeutralObserver said
    The_Tango said
    NeutralObserver said
    The_Tango said
    NeutralObserver said
    The_Tango saidNot sure. That's pretty much like welfare. One can see the situation at Spain where Spaniards remain jobless!


    No, it's not welfare, it actually serves as an incentive to work, and more importantly, to start businesses.


    Giving free money = Welfare

    Sounds like it to me.


    And what is wrong with welfare? You do know what the word welfare means right.

    A government that actually supports its citizens will reap many benefits. The US and much of Europe is in a hellish economic predicament right now: high unemployment, massive credit card and student loan debt that is going to cripple the generation(s) coming off, and a sharply growing divide between those with resources and those without.

    If the citizens were to receive a SUBSIDY such as this, it would lead to more jobs, better jobs, and an economy that is run by the people and not greedy sociopathic elites.


    I looked up welfare just now. That meaning is something a liberal would say without hurting anyone feelings.


    Actually I have no political affiliation, hell, I'm not a US Citizen and can't even vote. I'm just not completely dead inside and actually care about the state of the world... I know, huge idea.

    But like I said, this wouldn't be sustainable in the US but for Switzerland, it could work.

    Also, this doesn't count as the US idea of "welfare" because these are not funds given to the down and out, but to ALL adult citizens, mostly gainfully employed individuals who will probably use the funds to cultivate their businesses or self sustain while doing so.



    It's welfare to me either way. I don't know whether to trust them or not. One can see past situation of countries who got free money. They turned into jobless Spainards! I think it might work in different countries. Switzerland is a small country and they feel responsible to me.


    I'm sorry, can you educate me about what happened in Spain? I know the unemployment rate is like 30% there which is nuts.
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    Oct 06, 2013 11:31 PM GMT
    Sounds like a horrible idea. Why bother working at all.
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    Oct 06, 2013 11:34 PM GMT
    The Spaniards are unemployed and live off welfare.

    I feel like the Switzerland plan could work though.
  • Eli_jah

    Posts: 1391

    Oct 06, 2013 11:41 PM GMT
    S34n05 saidSounds like a horrible idea. Why bother working at all.


    For personal fulfillment? Because $2,800 (US) isn't that much money anyway (what is that 35K a year?). Some people actually enjoy working and building careers.
  • Eli_jah

    Posts: 1391

    Oct 06, 2013 11:43 PM GMT
    The_Tango saidThe Spaniards are unemployed and live off welfare.

    I feel like the Switzerland plan could work though.


    THERE ARE NO JOBS TO BE FOUND! What do you expect them to do, starve to death?

    Welfare is there to stop people from falling into abject poverty and dying of malnutrition or poor health.

    What do you expect these people to do with a 30% unemployment rate?
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    Oct 06, 2013 11:48 PM GMT
    Dude, I even agree to saying Yes to the Switzerland plan.

    Anyways, you can find the Spaniards celebrating fiesta time and having the time of their lives. They look fine to me.
  • Amelorn

    Posts: 231

    Oct 07, 2013 12:47 AM GMT
    $2,800 (approx 2500 Francs) per month, in Switzerland, is not a particularly princely income. While you could retire to a trailer in Redneckistan, USA for that sum, you'd quickly be reduced to a subsistence existence in Switzerland, where urban apartments can run over $1200/month for a grad student dwelling.

  • Fable

    Posts: 3866

    Oct 07, 2013 12:51 AM GMT
    The_Tango saidThe Spaniards are unemployed and live off welfare.



    tumblr_m5hpve8oyt1rr4dzk.gif
  • Eli_jah

    Posts: 1391

    Oct 07, 2013 12:51 AM GMT
    Amelorn said$2,800 (approx 2500 Francs) per month, in Switzerland, is not a particularly princely income. While you could retire to a trailer in Redneckistan, USA for that sum, you'd quickly be reduced to a subsistence existence in Switzerland, where urban apartments can run over $1200/month for a grad student dwelling.



    Most of these people would have their salaries as well, this would serve as a kind of living subsidy that would also boost the economy.
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    Oct 07, 2013 12:59 AM GMT
    NeutralObserver said
    S34n05 saidSounds like a horrible idea. Why bother working at all.


    For personal fulfillment? Because $2,800 (US) isn't that much money anyway (what is that 35K a year?). Some people actually enjoy working and building careers.


    Some people may, but a lot don't. Especially if they are stuck in some terrible 30-40k career.

    Basically here's the popular "story" that floats around facebook constantly about socialism.

    "An economics professor at a local college made a statement that he had never failed a single student before, but had recently failed an entire class. That class had insisted that socialism worked and that no one would be poor and no one would be rich, a great equalizer.

    The professor then said, "OK, we will have an experiment in this class that plan." All grades will be averaged and everyone will receive the same grade so no one will fail and no one will receive an A.... (substituting grades for dollars - something closer to home and more readily understood by all).

    After the first test, the grades were averaged and everyone got a B. The students who studied hard were upset and the students who studied little were happy. As the second test rolled around, the students who studied little had studied even less and the ones who studied hard decided they wanted a free ride too so they studied little..

    The second test average was a D! No one was happy. When the 3rd test rolled around, the average was an F. As the tests proceeded, the scores never increased as bickering, blame and name-calling all resulted in hard feelings and no one would study for the benefit of anyone else. To their great surprise, ALL FAILED and the professor told them that socialism would also ultimately fail because when the reward is great, the effort to succeed is great, but when government takes all the reward away, no one will try or want to succeed. It could not be any simpler than that."
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    Oct 07, 2013 1:07 AM GMT
    The OP needs to take an economics class.

    Also, be aware that in some parts of the U.S. That $35,000 is a lot of money.

    In fact that is roughly my annual salary as a college instructor. So if someone wants to hand that to me as a form of welfare, I have no incentive to work. I would much rather stay home and stress free.

    We live in a culture that needs incentives to thrive. The first thing most people ask is "What's in it for me?"

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    Oct 07, 2013 4:22 AM GMT
    Upper_Cdn said[quote][cite]NeutralObserver said[/cite]I think this might be beneficial for a smaller nation like Switzerland. Of course, it wouldn't be sustainable here (but we do shell out 75 billion in funds for food stamps alone, so...)


    http://gawker.com/swiss-to-vote-on-guaranteed-28-000-monthly-income-for-1441514881

    ftfy


    Why not. Obama care is like giving a BMW 528 to every middle age person making $46,000 or less .