Chiropractors? Real thing or quack, medical pretenders?

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    Nov 02, 2013 6:02 PM GMT
    Since my accidents last year, I have been fighting headaches, major pains in my lower back, neck and shoulders, etc. My employer sponsored a "Health Fair" and among others, there was a Chiropractor there doing BP checks and quick massages. He noticed me and said he could see a few issues in my posture and alignment that can only be from "traumatic damage". He invited me to an appointment for a free massage....I went to his office and he wasn't there, but another "Dr" was. He had me cack to get x-rays of my neck, spine, shoulders, etc, and then had me lay face down on his table....where he felt and pressed all over my back and neck....no massage. Told me to come back the next night to look at the x-rays and "finish up"...So I did come the next night.....he has all ov the x-rays on the wall, and starts reviewing all he sees....This is all old news to me....I know this and have been under treatment of a team of Doctors, surgeons, PT, psychologists, etc....I stopped him and said..." you know, this seems like an awful lot for a free massage".....he looked at me and was like "WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?" ...I told him about the Health Fair....and he said "this is a free consultation for treatment"...I told him I am currently in a medically supervised treatment....I just wanted a massage. He laughed and walked me out....and apologized for the misunderstanding....
    I ended up getting a massage at my gym a few days later that I paid for....
    I have friends that swear by their Chiropractor and others that are decidedly AGAINST them as fakes....
    I don't know what to think....anyone with thoughts?
    My Massage Therapist is licensed by the State of Ohio...I didn't see any such thing for Chiropractors...
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    Nov 02, 2013 7:00 PM GMT
    Just sounds like a bad experience man. Chiropractic has changed a lot in the last decade to keep up - a recent graduate of chiropractic school now has more training than a physiotherapist and a massage therapist with respect to understanding tendons, ligaments and muscles. Old-school chiropractors, on the other hand...I will agree some of the ones I went to as a kid seemed somewhat dubious. The trick is to see a chiro that's come out of school/training recently, or see a physiotherapist. Physiotherapy does not fall under the CAM umbrella (Complementary and Alternative Medicine) like chiropractic does, so physiotherapy understandably has the best reputation. Successful treatment for me at my worst has involved a combination of physiotherapy, chiropractic and massage therapy. Two of those are free as a student on my campus, and the other is drastically reduced as a result of our awesome health care system up here.
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    Nov 02, 2013 8:27 PM GMT
    woodsmen saidA different view of the body.


    I agree!

    Most people would never notice this, but I can feel when one shoulder is slightly higher than the other. A chiropractic adjustment (done correctly) makes my shoulders balanced; I can tell the difference in moving my body or stretching.

    I've seen 4 chiropractors and only 1 was able to adjust me correctly.

    1) A salesman who wanted "patients" to sign up for crazy plans, buy supplements, and made new patients watch a video about the benefits from chiropractic care.

    2) An okay guy. I had to use him during college (only chiropractor in the area). He believed in cryotherapy at home and posture exercises.

    3) A female I really liked her; she'd massage me, use electric stimulation, and hot packs, but she wasn't able to manipulate my spine as effectively as #4.

    4) A man larger and taller than I am was able to manipulate my spine in a way that worked for me. He says I have a lot of muscle in my back and sometimes it takes 2-3 tries to get it adjusted.

    I've tried doing certain stretches to adjust myself, but it doesn't work -- I can get a few pops, but not as efficiently. I've experienced a Kinesis Myofascial Integration (KMI) session. They believe we develop microscopic scars from bad posture -- I think a deep tissue massage is more effective in loosening everything up. Finding a massage therapist that is certified and gets your body also takes experimentation.

    The physical therapists I've talked to don't believe in chiropractors. From my point of view, having it done correctly makes my shoulders balanced and I am able to perform certain movements, postures, and stretches with fluidity & ease, instead of feeling a slight "tweak". Will this have a negative effect as I age -- I don't know, but I look at it as "stretching" the spine to move more efficiently.

    As far as X-rays go the 4th chiropractor believes in performing an X-Ray in the beginning, then waiting several months to do them again (since they use radiation). If I wanted to have another X-Ray done he wouldn't hesitate, but I thankfully don't have a major scoliosis or anything that would show a difference.
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    Nov 02, 2013 8:46 PM GMT
    Workers Comp lawyers love to say they aren't doctors, but good chiropractors do to go through the same process as MDs, which includes extensive schooling and internship. I have an aunt that has had several orthopedic surgeries and her orthopedic surgeon (one of the best around) recommended seeing a chiropractor as part of her physical therapy. Pharmaceuticals and traditional medicine would like people to believe that chiropractors aren't real doctors, because chiropractic medicine can sometimes cut into their bottom line. Besides, some of chiropractors do isn't part what MDs offer.

    That's not to say that there aren't bad chiropractors, but there are bad MDs as well. It's all a matter of finding strong professionals with good training.
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    Nov 02, 2013 9:35 PM GMT
    Mr_Kyle_Barker saidbut good chiropractors do to go through the same process as MDs, which includes extensive schooling and internship.

    Wrong.

    Chiropractors go through schooling that's specific for just chiropractors and not part of the normal/regular medical field. It would be like saying faith healers and homeopaths go through the same process as MDs; yes, faith healers and homeopaths get "training" but, as with chiropractors, it's not recognized by the AMA or any other normal medical association.

    Unlike normal medicine there is no scientific, medical, research proven foundation for chiropractic, except what their own chiropractic organization claims.

    As always, be aware of the placebo effect. The human mind can be a very powerful part of the healing process. If you believe that something is helping you, even though organically it's not, your body can do amazing things.
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    Nov 02, 2013 9:40 PM GMT
    Why don't Physicians come to Health Fairs and invite you back for icon_question.giffree consultations like the chiros do.
  • musclmed

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    Nov 02, 2013 10:04 PM GMT
    Sporty_g saidSince my accidents last year, I have been fighting headaches, major pains in my lower back, neck and shoulders, etc. My employer sponsored a "Health Fair" and among others, there was a Chiropractor there doing BP checks and quick massages. He noticed me and said he could see a few issues in my posture and alignment that can only be from "traumatic damage". He invited me to an appointment for a free massage....I went to his office and he wasn't there, but another "Dr" was. He had me cack to get x-rays of my neck, spine, shoulders, etc, and then had me lay face down on his table....where he felt and pressed all over my back and neck....no massage. Told me to come back the next night to look at the x-rays and "finish up"...So I did come the next night.....he has all ov the x-rays on the wall, and starts reviewing all he sees....This is all old news to me....I know this and have been under treatment of a team of Doctors, surgeons, PT, psychologists, etc....I stopped him and said..." you know, this seems like an awful lot for a free massage".....he looked at me and was like "WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?" ...I told him about the Health Fair....and he said "this is a free consultation for treatment"...I told him I am currently in a medically supervised treatment....I just wanted a massage. He laughed and walked me out....and apologized for the misunderstanding....
    I ended up getting a massage at my gym a few days later that I paid for....
    I have friends that swear by their Chiropractor and others that are decidedly AGAINST them as fakes....
    I don't know what to think....anyone with thoughts?
    My Massage Therapist is licensed by the State of Ohio...I didn't see any such thing for Chiropractors...



    Well there area about a dozen anecdotal stories of chiropractor horror stories that I have personally taken care of. However from the information you provided you have to give the chiropractor credit. He did xrays, which is more than most chiro's do at the start.

    Chiropractors are licensed in the United States. The theory behind the therapeutics is disjointed. Proof of this is that the more legitimate practitioners integrate traditional allopathatic medicine into therapies ( for example telling patient to take Ibuprofen etc)

    Personally I am neutral about Chiro's because some patients seem to benefit from it. However when they start trying to treat for Asthma and other disorders beyond musculoskeletal problems we get into dangerous territory. For example the blood pressure screen suggests that they can treat blood pressure with chiropractic manipulation.

    Last, you probably should have given this chiro a break. Obviously he was trying to drum up potential patients. If you were not interested in a chiropractic visit why did you show up? Just for a massage? Come on, part with 30 bucks and pay for it yourself. You would put yourself through unnecessary xrays for a free massage? Seriously?


    Longblack saidWhy don't Physicians come to Health Fairs and invite you back for icon_question.giffree consultations like the chiros do.



    With the exception of plastic surgeons, who rarely have to do events like this. Treatment within a traditional allopathic medical philosophy is antithetical to "FREE VISIT" because usually it involves an assessment , and plan and usually followup. When you start breaking down price and a break out a "menu" it disrupts the treatment plan.
    In addition there is such a shortage of physicians you do not need to do this sort of advertising.
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    Nov 02, 2013 10:07 PM GMT
    Aristoshark saidI don't know it it's still true---at least I hope not---but when I was young, chiropractors maintained that all illnesses were the result of improper spinal alignment, and that everything from sniffles to cancer could be cured or at least helped by spinal manipulation. This is pure quackery, and to the extent that it persuades people not to get genuine medical care, it's criminal.


    Hi Mr. Sharky we keep bumping into each other on the forums. If your chiropractor tells you he can cure cancer RUN! I don't know if I believe everything chiropractors say, even the ones I really like, but it does help me. If I wasn't as active or aware of my own body I may not have noticed a difference.
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    Nov 02, 2013 10:25 PM GMT
    Lumpyoatmeal said
    Mr_Kyle_Barker saidbut good chiropractors do to go through the same process as MDs, which includes extensive schooling and internship.

    Wrong.

    Chiropractors go through schooling that's specific for just chiropractors and not part of the normal/regular medical field. It would be like saying faith healers and homeopaths go through the same process as MDs; yes, faith healers and homeopaths get "training" but, as with chiropractors, it's not recognized by the AMA or any other normal medical association.

    Unlike normal medicine there is no scientific, medical, research proven foundation for chiropractic, except what their own chiropractic organization claims.

    As always, be aware of the placebo effect. The human mind can be a very powerful part of the healing process. If you believe that something is helping you, even though organically it's not, your body can do amazing things.


    The ones that I know of have gone through school and internship, and don't make wild promises. I'm just speaking from ones I know about, hence why I did not use the word all. I never said the training was part of the medical field, just that properly trained chiropractors go to school and do internships. In California, they are required to be licensed and that requires schooling, no exceptions.
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    Nov 02, 2013 11:44 PM GMT

    I did find this interesting when researching my sliding Hiatal Hernia
    (the actual cause of acid reflux)

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    Nov 03, 2013 1:13 AM GMT
    Aristoshark said
    woodsmen saidI do believe in Western medical practice but its history has been a history of mistakes. Recall the Occulist period where they were bleeding people because this was supposed to be healthy.
    Aristoshark saidI don't know it it's still true---at least I hope not---but when I was young, chiropractors maintained that all illnesses were the result of improper spinal alignment, and that everything from sniffles to cancer could be cured or at least helped by spinal manipulation. This is pure quackery, and to the extent that it persuades people not to get genuine medical care, it's criminal.

    We're not in the same period anymore, though, are we? I don't know of anyone who believes that bleeding is useful. Or leeches either. But the wild claims of chiropractic are similar to the bizarre claims of reflexology, that there is a particular area on the body (the spine, the foot) that somehow controls our inner workings. This is nonsense of the worst order. Pathologies have lots of different loci. There is no one controlling spot. People get suckered into this for the same reason they get suckered into believing crazy economic theories---because they're simple, they have a false patina of "common sense" about them, and understanding real complexity t takes education and effort, neither of which most people want to bother with.


    This is true on reflexology (no science to support it), but it feels awfully good; I agree with the spine not relating to all of the organ systems. It has helped my mobility in a minute way. I can also perform body isolations in dance significantly better -- I can literally feel and see a difference.
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    Nov 03, 2013 2:18 AM GMT
    LIVE LEECHES and MAGGOTS are both currently in use in western medicine....
    Maggots are used to clean a wound of dead or dying tissue, since maggots do not eat living tissue...these are of course "sterile maggots", but they are used. Leeches are used on people that have had a finger or body part severed and reattached, as a way to make sure that blood is drawn back into the reconnected part....I know this for a fact. My uncle was ice skating, had 3 fingers severed on the ice, the fingers were reattached and had several live leeches that drew the circulation and feeling back into his fingers......he has all of them and they all work.



  • AMoonHawk

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    Nov 03, 2013 2:21 AM GMT
    chiropractor fixed my back after about 10 years of lower back pain .. of course I think exercise and lots of massage therapy also helped.
  • musclmed

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    Nov 03, 2013 4:06 AM GMT
    Sporty_g saidLIVE LEECHES and MAGGOTS are both currently in use in western medicine....
    Maggots are used to clean a wound of dead or dying tissue, since maggots do not eat living tissue...these are of course "sterile maggots", but they are used. Leeches are used on people that have had a finger or body part severed and reattached, as a way to make sure that blood is drawn back into the reconnected part....I know this for a fact. My uncle was ice skating, had 3 fingers severed on the ice, the fingers were reattached and had several live leeches that drew the circulation and feeling back into his fingers......he has all of them and they all work.





    Ok see all of the annoying commercials about Afib and blood thinners?

    The drugs Xarelto, Pradaxa, and Eliquis are all based on Hirudin which comes from leech spit.

    The drugs prevent clotting which is a consequence after vascular surgery. We do not need to put live leaches on anyone because we have the medications that accomplish this in a more reliable fashion.

    not sure what these things have to do with chiropractors.
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    Nov 03, 2013 5:18 AM GMT
    Mr_Kyle_Barker saidproperly trained chiropractors go to school and do internships.

    I don't know if they do internships, probably do, but "properly trained" pastors, ministers, and priests also go to school.

    Chiropractic has as much scientific validity as creationism.
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    Nov 03, 2013 5:36 AM GMT
    I've used chiropractors for decades whenever I've had a stiff back that has stuck around for more than a few days. I've never subscribed to grandiose theories of chiropractic curing cancer, asthma, etc. but for general back problems it has always been helpful to me. (I'm talking here about one or two visits per year or two...) I don't think they're all quacks.
  • Import

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    Nov 03, 2013 5:56 AM GMT
    the more important question is does he give you pills, op?
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    Nov 04, 2013 12:32 AM GMT
    Import saidthe more important question is does he give you pills, op?

    no pills, so does that make him essentally an unlicensed massage therapist?
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    Nov 04, 2013 1:14 AM GMT
    In my experience there's a huge spectrum of quality among chiropractors, and they are not officially an accepted medical modality. If your doctor needs spine or joint manipulation or strengthening, he'll refer you to physical therapy, which integrates physical medicine with the medications your doctor prescribes. There is very little evidence to support chiropracty, and most of what exists was pulled from physical therapy and osteopathy research. The most common practice of chiropractors, "subluxation" has been soundly debunked as non-beneficial for any condition, and chiropractors have scrambled to refocus their treatments away from that practice.
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    Nov 04, 2013 2:58 AM GMT
    Import saidthe more important question is does he give you pills, op?

    no pills, so does that make him essentally an unlicensed massage therapist?
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    Nov 04, 2013 1:14 PM GMT
    Anecdotally (and really, that's all any of us here can offer) after standing for hours at the hospital on concrete floors, my lower back and sciatica were killing me.
    My LMT--who I usually use and is great for both problems-- was booked up and I needed relief, pronto!
    I had a friend who recommended a chiropractor who was able to get me in during lunch hours when most people are too busy.
    He watched me walk down the hall, back towards him both in shoes and barefoot.
    He next had me lay on a undulating table with hard rollers that worked up and down my spine, much like an LMT.
    Then, he lay me on a hard padded bench on my left side, crossed my right leg over my left one, knee pulled up and ankle on left knee cap, pulled my left arm towards my right side of my body and then, by his weight, cracked the lower spine area, which popped loudly!
    Rick-Side-Posture-588.jpg


    The relied was immediate! Sciatica gone in an instant!
    One more visit that week, 2 days later, one follow up visit and he says "Come back and see me whenever it hurts again."

    Now, my family 'doctor' probably would still be ordering tests and writing prescriptions!

    PS:I've found that during my usual Yoga routine, I can simulate the procedure and get small relief. It helps to have someone else do it, so I'm getting my LMT to do so.
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    Nov 04, 2013 2:14 PM GMT
    Aristoshark saidChiropractic is pseudo-science. Harmless and silly at best, damaging to the spine at worst.

    This time 75 trillion, or whatever the current debt ceiling number is.
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    Nov 04, 2013 7:49 PM GMT
    StudlyScrewRite saidcracked the lower spine area, which popped loudly!

    I haven't done it in a long time but I could crack my back by arching my torso forward in a C shape and pressing on the small of my back. I've known guys who've had friends crack their backs by lifting them up off the ground with arms under their pecs and then giving them a short drop.

    Is there any research on the effects of cracking your joints? I've been cracking my knuckles all my life. When I was younger people used to say that cracking your knuckles will give you arthritis but I don't hear that any more. And here I am, 60, and no arthritis in my hands (yet).