Out-of-Body Experience? Your Brain Is to Blame

  • metta

    Posts: 39144

    Nov 13, 2013 5:36 PM GMT
    Out-of-Body Experience? Your Brain Is to Blame


    http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/03/health/psychology/03shad.html


    It is an old article but I found it interesting, especially since I have had a few people tell me that they have had out of body experiences.
  • metta

    Posts: 39144

    Nov 13, 2013 6:30 PM GMT
    ^
    Yes, but this explains how the brain does it. That is what I find fascinating about it. To have someone tell me that they have had an of body experience several times, I wondered how they came to that conclusion. This explains that.
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    Nov 13, 2013 6:39 PM GMT
    thebearerofbadnews saidno offense but wouldn't that be kind of obvious though. it's all mental.
    It's not obvious to people who've had out-of-body experiences. To them the perceptual disjoint and accompanying hallucinations are real. Since it's not terrifically uncommon, you'll find people on this site (in several forum threads from the past) vehemently insisting it WAS real; any disagreement or discussion about its realness is viewed as an attack on them (are you questioning my sanity, are you suggesting my sense of self is something I may not have control over, etc.).

    But like with any other sense (sight, hearing, touch, smell & taste, time, worth, purpose, direction), trauma, disease, sleep deprivation, starvation, toxicity, and even meditation can interfere with--or in some cases, disable--these senses.
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    Nov 14, 2013 12:07 AM GMT
    I've had probably 1000s of experiences many would describe as oobe's, especially back in my late teens/early 20s and particularly while dealing with coming out anxiety, producing a number of separate such experiences nearly every night for a while there.

    After some annoyance, I got to the point of being fairly well in control both of their occurrences and of the motion of my dream body within the so-called oobe or dream.

    Curiously, in the Toltec tradition as described by Castaneda, an oobe is a sign of handling directly what he refers to as energy which is then utilized as an aspect of lucid dreaming (he didn't call it lucid dreaming), whereas Tibetan dream yoga comes at it from the opposite direction, considering lucid dreaming as more or less the warm up towards controlling an oobe. My personal preference is to be multi-direction while being haha multidimensional.

    I consider oobe's to be a particular type of lucid dreaming though not quite as described in the article. The paranoia it mentions of being so-called aware of a shadowy figure, as far as I've experienced or discussed with other dreamers, or read from others reporting in, is not usually considered an aspect of an oobe, though the dreamer certainly might have lucid encounters with other characters within the dreaming. The paranoia & shadowy stuff described in the article sounds more like the type of sensation some experience in sleep paralysis, another type of dreaming related to but significantly different from what's normally referred to as an oobe. Though the former can lead to the latter if you work it right.

    So immediately I suspect the writer did not research well enough just what was being written about, or simply lacked understanding of the subject.

    The sensation mentioned in the article of perception of a body as a double has interesting application in Toltec dream practice as described by Castaneda and I tried one of his exercises with very fun success so I'd recommend it to any lucid dreamers out there. I think I've mentioned this before:

    Keep in mind the position of your physical body, then put your physical body to sleep while maintaining consciousness or set yourself up to awaken your consciousness during sleep, whichever is your preference or ability. Then find a comfortable place within your dream, place your dream character's dream body in the very same position as you had left your physical body and dream your dream character back to sleep. Very fun results from that.

    The article seems to conclude suspiciously by suggesting that just because the brain can be artificially stimulated in particular ways to produce similar sensation that this somehow negates significance of the dream experience. And I'm not suggesting the dream experience anything special here other than simply being a dream. For me, it's just another experience of this amusement park we call life.

    That the article could just as easily have reported on hooking up electrodes to stimulate particular areas of the brain to make the subject experience the sensations of eating a cheese sandwich does not deny that the subject might actually have had a real one for lunch.
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    Nov 14, 2013 5:03 AM GMT
    The symbols have been all around us in plain sight

    isis-show.jpg
    time-warner-cable-logo-med.jpg
    Awakening_Pineal-242x181.jpeg
    http://consciouslifenews.com/how-to-open-third-eye-pineal/
    What Do the Ancients Say Regarding the Pineal Gland, “The Third Eye”?
    By Nancy Oakes

    Today more than any other time in the history of humanity, the inquiry into spiritual realities and the increasingly sensitive search to understand the mysteries of creation is compelling humans forward to obtain the truth.One such search involves the most misunderstood and guarded secret of the elite and of the highest orders on the planet regarding the processes of the pineal gland; and its sacred connection to the spirit realm. Let’s search together and penetrate into the world that we have not been privileged to. One that will lead us to the truth regarding the eye of God, the sixth sense, the sixth Chakra, your spiritual eye, or “THE THIRD EYE.”
    The Third Eye is the center of what is called clairvoyant sight, and refers to the higher sense abilities to intuitively see or perceive subtle energies. The 17th-century French philosopher-mathematician René Descartes concluded that the pineal gland was the “Seat of the Soul.” The ancients were aware, and associated the “Third Eye” with the autonomic nervous system, and with governing the pituitary gland, pineal gland, skull, eyes, brain, nervous system and the senses.
    It becomes more than ridiculous for humanity to not know the importance of such a powerful gateway in our own bodies, there is obviously more to this mystery.

    What Is The Makeup Of The Pineal Gland?

    The pineal gland is made up of mostly water, the same material your physical eyes are made of. The water also serves as a conductor with the gland, associated with vibrations and light. The mysterious gland is capable of audio and video, thus imagination, also known as the minds eye, the “Inner Eye.” In the past, certain religious organizations have spoken of the danger of imagination: tell that to the great poets and writers that have gone beyond and created great literary works. This has been another trick of the higher authorities to keep humans from exploring imagination, a natural process. The important aspect to grasp is that the pineal gland is the trans-dimensional transmitter to spiritual realms. The interior of the pineal gland has rods and cones, (cornea, lens and retina) just like our physical eyes. The gland raises your vibration controlling various biorhythms, sleep patterns, of the body. Prana, or pure energy is received through this energy center.

    The Great Mystery!

    Why has humanity been kept in the dark about this pine cone shaped gland; why are we now at this time becoming privileged to information held secret for eons? Is it possible that those higher powers have realized the mistake they made by withholding this sacred information and knowledge from humankind? Some have suggested that those in power decided to let us in on the mystery of the Pineal gland? I think not, this knowledge never belonged to them in the first place. The highest power of the universe has reminded humanity through our evolution to look within for the gateway to enlightenment. For all those ascended humans who have grown tired of war, inquisitions, greed, pestilence, plagues, genocide, incest, pedophilia, famine, culture and environmental destruction, and the enslavement of humanity by the wealthy and elite, the secret is revealed. Humanity had to be awakened to save not just the planet, but also ourselves.
    Throughout ancient history the pinecones have served as a symbolic representation of the Human Enlightenment, the “Third Eye” and the pineal gland. Interesting to note, it takes 49 days for the pineal gland to appear in gestation within the human embryo. Also on the 49th day the differential happens designating a male or female within the human embryo. Forty-nine days is also the time period that the sacred Tibetan documents teach that it takes for the soul to reincarnate into the next life.
    Existing three times longer than other flowering plant is the Conifer Pine tree.
    The most ancient of plants, the pinecone and its design is found on all indigenous artifacts of every culture around the world. The pinecone its spines and spiral is a perfect Fibonacci sequence in either direction. The “Pine” al Gland, is a tiny pinecone shaped gland in the middle of the brow, behind the root of the nose. Shaped like and named after the pinecone it is at the geometric center of our brain, and is intimately linked to the human body’s perception of light. Known for centuries, and recorded in every ancient religious documents on the planet, from the beginning of time, and by all keepers of indigenous wisdom, mystics, esoteric psychologists, astrologists, numerologists, theosophical doctrines, occultism, Kabbalistic documents, Rosicrucian truths, The Roman Catholic Church, the ancient Greeks, and Egyptians, Hindu, Tibetans, and Buddhists understood the processes of the “The Third Eye.”
    Ancient Assyrian palace carvings, dating back to 713-716 B.C. depict four-winged gold-like figures purposefully holding aloft pinecones. Actually depicting the pinecone as pollinating the Tree of Life. The pinecone became the symbol of immortality, and ancient documents depict it in the role as icon of enlightenment.

    Powerful Religious Authorities Continue Today To Use The Depiction Of The Pineal Gland In Symbolism?

    The Greeks and Romans also incorporated the pine cone into their elaborate systems of religious belief. The Romans later built an enormous bronze sculpture, the Pigna, with the shape of a huge pine cone, at the temple of ISIS in ancient Rome. It now sits in the Vatican Square, within the Court of the Pine Cone. Further atop the staff carried by the Pope sits a pine cone. The Coat of Arms of the Holy See found on the Vatican flag features a stacking of three crowns suspiciously similar in shape to a pine cone. Is perhaps the very name Holy See associated with the “Third Eye?” For centuries conspiracy theorists and philosophers have accused the Catholic Church of using Christianity and Catholicism as a veil to blind the public to true spiritual enlightenment.
    The Egyptian Staff of Osiris, dating back to 1224 B.C. depicts two intertwining serpents rising up to meet at a pinecone. (A parallel to the Indian, “Kundalini, a spiritual energy in the body) Remember they recorded this in 1224 B.C. Hindu deities are also interwoven with both literal and symbolic representations of pinecones and serpents. Shiva the most prominent god in the Hindu tradition is consistently depicted with her hair shaped like a Pinecone.

    Destruction Of The Pineal Gland

    The pineal gland has two small arteries at its base, which has more blood flow per cubic volume than any other organ in the body. Thus the gland has the highest amount of concentration of energy from our body. Calcium, phosphors, and fluoride deposits in the pineal gland have been correlated with aging, but more importantly the damaged done by fluoride to the gland is directly linked to dementia, and Alzheimer disease.

    Can We Detoxify And Repair The Damage To Our Pineal Gland?

    Yes, begin by avoiding the drinking of water or bathing in water that is laced with fluoride, and by choosing to buy products like toothpaste that do not have added fluoride. Diet changes, may be in order. One example is the damage done and exacerbated by Vitamin K2 deficiency, therefore green leafy vegetables (organic) high in vitamin K2 is recommended. Humanity has been renewed, reconnected to the spirit realms, and “AWAKENED” through the awareness of the “Third Eye.” a sacred gate
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    Nov 14, 2013 5:29 AM GMT
    It's a study in itself why stuff called "secret" knowledge has common knowledge for thousands of years.
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    Nov 14, 2013 5:33 AM GMT
    No! Mucus is to blame! Mucus is out to get you when you're at home for the holidays. Mucus is the devil's tool to twist you to his evil desires for pain and suffering! Don't let mucus stop you from enjoying your lives!
    #anti-mucuscoalition!
    I approve this message! icon_mad.gificon_mad.gificon_mad.gif
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    Nov 14, 2013 6:20 AM GMT
    _JRQ saidNo! Mucus is to blame! Mucus is out to get you when you're at home for the holidays. Mucus is the devil's tool to twist you to his evil desires for pain and suffering! Don't let mucus stop you from enjoying your lives!
    #anti-mucuscoalition!
    I approve this message! icon_mad.gificon_mad.gificon_mad.gif


    your pretty close, ectoplasm, by its not evil

    [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ectoplasm_(paranormal)[/url]
  • Drift

    Posts: 217

    Nov 14, 2013 9:31 AM GMT
    Its pretty interesting to see how it can be triggered. And how they felt an intent from the other character. I wonder how clearly they were able to describe things while having the out of body experience, and how consistent they were. So, were they able to consistently make that one woman feel as if she were looking down from the ceiling, and was she only describing things that it was possible for her to see I'm her original position?
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    Nov 14, 2013 2:57 PM GMT
    Cool article.
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    Nov 14, 2013 4:39 PM GMT
    This doesn't explain how some people are able to see things that happen that the couldn't possible physically perceive. For example, know what's going on in a different room or having an overhead view of their own operation (while completely under), describing things that they couldn't possible see.
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    Nov 14, 2013 6:46 PM GMT
    Seriously, as much fun might be speculation, you guys need to calm down a little bit and think for yourselves instead of parroting bullshit you read on random websites set up for advertising revenue, including this one, including anything I might say on the subject. Skepticism is your friend.

    An affection for immortality might drive some speculation but even if it might be one day proved that a person can view remotely from what is currently thought of as the corporeal, even that would neither show nor provide evidence for existence beyond what someone might consider to be the physical because for all you know, what we normally might consider nonphysical might be merely a projection existing only during physical life.

    Death might turn that projector off and as far as I know, not enough people have come back from the dead reporting otherwise to offer countering theories much credence. So you need to take all of this with a grain of salt.

    Drift saidIts pretty interesting to see how it can be triggered. And how they felt an intent from the other character. I wonder how clearly they were able to describe things while having the out of body experience, and how consistent they were. So, were they able to consistently make that one woman feel as if she were looking down from the ceiling, and was she only describing things that it was possible for her to see I'm her original position?


    The article doesn't say what the person saw or hallucinated, nor even if a vision or a just a visual occurred, rather reporting only the sensation induced.

    It's very possible that an oobe is nothing more than the disconnect between proprioception (our sense of where our body is in space and in relation to other body parts, ie how far you've just extended your fingers to type on the keyboard) with actual sensory input (finger tips feeling each key as you hit them) which is, of course, missing during dreaming because the body is at that point asleep. So while dreaming consciously (aka lucid dreaming) where the dreamer is also aware of a dream body (because you can also be conscious, while the body sleeps, without dreaming), then you'd maintain proprioception of the dream body while not having sensory input from the physical body, thus the disconnect.

    The problem there is that without anchors for the consciousness, the imagination can just run wild and create all sorts of subjective hallucinations, obviously not objectively observable.

    Your questioning is good. I've got to go run do things. I do want to respond to your questioning clarity (which I touched upon in my previous post where I discussed paranoia) and perspective of the so-called viewings, about which I have years of personal experience. Sorry for the interruption in this response. I'll get back to this later.

    Dreaming is perception unconstrained by sensory input. Perception is dreaming constrained by sensory input. ~~Stephen LaBerge
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    Nov 15, 2013 5:30 PM GMT
    Drift said...I wonder how clearly they were able to describe things while having the out of body experience, and how consistent they were...was she only describing things that it was possible for her to see I'm her original position?


    One reason I earlier mentioned the difference between types of dreaming such as the so-called oobe or sleep paralysis is how the quality of different types of dreams do differ, thus, I suspect, some people try to say one is one thing while another is another thing when it all might be the same thing or certainly a continuum of the same.

    The paranoia of a "shadowy figure" described in the experiment is as I mentioned typical for some within sleep paralysis, which normally only occurs to people in the early stages of their learning various techniques of dreaming from a day dream (which your mind can then step into if you know how) to so-called astral projection. It's lucid in that consciousness awakens while the body sleeps but not necessarily an aware state of being such that imagination overwhelmingly overcomes reason, just as a person's mind can be awake while the body is awake, yet be not very aware. Whereas oobe's tend to be highly vivid. If there was another character in the oobe besides your own dream body, however you experience that, it likely wouldn't be shadowy; you might interact or even converse with it.

    A non-lucid dreamer could easily picture this difference by imagining dreaming--as many non lucid dreamers report doing--of running away from something or someone who might be running after you in the dream, but you never turn around to discuss the situation with who or whatever is running after you, that shadowy figure which often is reported as a reoccurring dream. In such case, the dream character is not vivid but shadowy. OOBE's tend to be highly vivid, as well as lucid.

    As to perspective of the dreamer in an oobe, it is very much the perspective of non dreaming. You view a scene or an object from the top or to the sides etc. depending on your control of yourself within that experience. Most likely, the ones more often reported is all the near death shit or some other once in a lifetime experience which is all wonderful experience but it would be unlikely that such an experience would include much if any self control to perceive from various perspectives.

    That's part of what Castaneda referred to as directly handling energy which in those Toltec terms is essentially the ability to willfully maneuver the perspective of perception.
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    Nov 27, 2013 7:50 PM GMT
    I have had an astral projection experience. It was interesting.