POLL: Voters Considering Candidates in the Republican Primary Are MORE OFFENDED BY STUDENTS WEARING Gay Pride FLAG THAN CONFEDERATE FLAG BY 4-1 MARGIN

  • metta

    Posts: 39169

    Nov 15, 2013 6:05 PM GMT
    (NOTE: Title Updated)


    POLL: AMERICANS MORE OFFENDED BY STUDENTS WEARING RAINBOW FLAG THAN CONFEDERATE FLAG BY 4-1 MARGIN

    http://www.thegailygrind.com/2013/11/15/poll-americans-offended-students-wearing-rainbow-flag-confederate-flag-4-1-margin/
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Nov 15, 2013 6:23 PM GMT
    Apparently, Americans are offended by equality and are nostalgic for slavery.icon_confused.gif
  • tazzari

    Posts: 2942

    Nov 15, 2013 6:24 PM GMT
    How many of those same people believe in alien abduction? Or that ENDA isn't needed?

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Nov 15, 2013 8:46 PM GMT
    As usual, a little fact checking and research reveal the flaws in the polling...

    1. They polled voters, not random Americans.
    2. The sample pool they asked this question to was comprised of 600 voters (there are more people in my church than that)
    3. The voters were voters considering candidates in the Republican Primary, Not exactly a broad cross section of "Americans" as the title suggests
    4. 76% of the respondents identified themselves as either somewhat conservative to very conservative.
    5. They weren't asked about the "rainbow flag" as the article headlines. They were asked about a "gay pride flag". I raise this point because words and descriptions matter A TON when answering questions and summarizing results. People are way more likely to react strongly to "gay pride flag" than "rainbow flag".

    Despite this alleged survey of Americans, the US is not 4:1 anti-gay, pro-slavery. I hate having my intelligence insulted.

    The actual poll...
    http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/main/2013/11/cruz-down-17-to-hillary-but-still-leading-with-conservatives.html#more
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Nov 15, 2013 9:01 PM GMT
    Myol saidAs usual, a little fact checking and research reveal the flaws in the polling...

    1. They polled voters, not random Americans.
    2. The sample pool they asked this question to was comprised of 600 voters (there are more people in my church than that)
    3. The voters were voters considering candidates in the Republican Primary, Not exactly a broad cross section of "Americans" as the title suggests
    4. 76% of the respondents identified themselves as either somewhat conservative to very conservative.
    5. They weren't asked about the "rainbow flag" as the article headlines. They were asked about a "gay pride flag". I raise this point because words and descriptions matter A TON when answering questions and summarizing results. People are way more likely to react strongly to "gay pride flag" than "rainbow flag".

    Despite this alleged survey of Americans, the US is not 4:1 anti-gay, pro-slavery. I hate having my intelligence insulted.

    The actual poll...
    http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/main/2013/11/cruz-down-17-to-hillary-but-still-leading-with-conservatives.html#more

    QFT!
  • Montague

    Posts: 5205

    Nov 15, 2013 9:27 PM GMT
    both are tacky and outdated...along with a many other flags
  • MikeW

    Posts: 6061

    Nov 15, 2013 9:38 PM GMT
    Thanks, Myol, for that breakdown. I agree, what matters in poling is sample size, demographics and wording. How many respondents even know a rainbow flag is a "gay pride flag"?
  • madsexy

    Posts: 4843

    Nov 15, 2013 9:49 PM GMT
    Don't disagree with the flaws in the representation of the poll as a broad cross-section or its extrapolation to reach the "this many Americans think ______". HOWEVER, the fact that any sampling of Americans other than KKK members think the confederate flag should be allowed to be displayed is very disappointing, even considering freedom of speech and freedom in general.
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Nov 15, 2013 9:52 PM GMT
    Myol saidAs usual, a little fact checking and research reveal the flaws in the polling...

    1. They polled voters, not random Americans.
    2. The sample pool they asked this question to was comprised of 600 voters (there are more people in my church than that)
    3. The voters were voters considering candidates in the Republican Primary, Not exactly a broad cross section of "Americans" as the title suggests
    4. 76% of the respondents identified themselves as either somewhat conservative to very conservative.
    5. They weren't asked about the "rainbow flag" as the article headlines. They were asked about a "gay pride flag". I raise this point because words and descriptions matter A TON when answering questions and summarizing results. People are way more likely to react strongly to "gay pride flag" than "rainbow flag".

    Despite this alleged survey of Americans, the US is not 4:1 anti-gay, pro-slavery. I hate having my intelligence insulted.

    The actual poll...
    http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/main/2013/11/cruz-down-17-to-hillary-but-still-leading-with-conservatives.html#more

    Thanks. I figured the poll had to be skewed. But, I'm not sure if the average American really understands history.... Maybe we need a poll on that.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Nov 15, 2013 10:02 PM GMT
    Myol said
    5. They weren't asked about the "rainbow flag" as the article headlines. They were asked about a "gay pride flag". I raise this point because words and descriptions matter A TON when answering questions and summarizing results. People are way more likely to react strongly to "gay pride flag" than "rainbow flag".


    good point, i think they should re-survey using "white southern pride flag" or "slave pride flag" in place of "confederate flag." wonder, if the response would be any differenticon_question.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Nov 15, 2013 10:44 PM GMT
    HottJoe said
    Myol saidAs usual, a little fact checking and research reveal the flaws in the polling...

    1. They polled voters, not random Americans.
    2. The sample pool they asked this question to was comprised of 600 voters (there are more people in my church than that)
    3. The voters were voters considering candidates in the Republican Primary, Not exactly a broad cross section of "Americans" as the title suggests
    4. 76% of the respondents identified themselves as either somewhat conservative to very conservative.
    5. They weren't asked about the "rainbow flag" as the article headlines. They were asked about a "gay pride flag". I raise this point because words and descriptions matter A TON when answering questions and summarizing results. People are way more likely to react strongly to "gay pride flag" than "rainbow flag".

    Despite this alleged survey of Americans, the US is not 4:1 anti-gay, pro-slavery. I hate having my intelligence insulted.

    The actual poll...
    http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/main/2013/11/cruz-down-17-to-hillary-but-still-leading-with-conservatives.html#more

    Thanks. I figured the poll had to be skewed. But, I'm not sure if the average American really understands history.... Maybe we need a poll on that.

    Of course the average american doesn't have a good understanding of history anymore than the average RJr does. It is quite understandable why a sizeable proportion of white southerners (not of the US as a whole) would not take any offense at the confederate flag. After all, it has only been 150 years since the end of the war, where between 15% and 20% of all white southern males died - all volunteers (unlike the Union's draftees), mostly poor, and probably 99%+ were not slave holders. And then the south was governed by the north as a conquered counntry for many years. They must have had reasons for volunteering to fight for their country besides hating blacks. The flag and other confederate tokens must have symbolized something to them besides keeping slavery. One would not expect the grandchildren or greatgrandchildren of confederate soldiers to have forgotten all they ever knew of this anymore than the descendants of slaves would have forgotten and forgiven slavery. You would have to wait a few more generations - maybe quite a few - for all this to be forgotten. The poll may be inaccurate, but probably not totally off the mark. The confederate flag symbolized more than just slavery.
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Nov 16, 2013 1:47 AM GMT
    Puppenjunge said
    HottJoe said
    Myol saidAs usual, a little fact checking and research reveal the flaws in the polling...

    1. They polled voters, not random Americans.
    2. The sample pool they asked this question to was comprised of 600 voters (there are more people in my church than that)
    3. The voters were voters considering candidates in the Republican Primary, Not exactly a broad cross section of "Americans" as the title suggests
    4. 76% of the respondents identified themselves as either somewhat conservative to very conservative.
    5. They weren't asked about the "rainbow flag" as the article headlines. They were asked about a "gay pride flag". I raise this point because words and descriptions matter A TON when answering questions and summarizing results. People are way more likely to react strongly to "gay pride flag" than "rainbow flag".

    Despite this alleged survey of Americans, the US is not 4:1 anti-gay, pro-slavery. I hate having my intelligence insulted.

    The actual poll...
    http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/main/2013/11/cruz-down-17-to-hillary-but-still-leading-with-conservatives.html#more

    Thanks. I figured the poll had to be skewed. But, I'm not sure if the average American really understands history.... Maybe we need a poll on that.

    Of course the average american doesn't have a good understanding of history anymore than the average RJr does. It is quite understandable why a sizeable proportion of white southerners (not of the US as a whole) would not take any offense at the confederate flag. After all, it has only been 150 years since the end of the war, where between 15% and 20% of all white southern males died - all volunteers (unlike the Union's draftees), mostly poor, and probably 99%+ were not slave holders. And then the south was governed by the north as a conquered counntry for many years. They must have had reasons for volunteering to fight for their country besides hating blacks. The flag and other confederate tokens must have symbolized something to them besides keeping slavery. One would not expect the grandchildren or greatgrandchildren of confederate soldiers to have forgotten all they ever knew of this anymore than the descendants of slaves would have forgotten and forgiven slavery. You would have to wait a few more generations - maybe quite a few - for all this to be forgotten. The poll may be inaccurate, but probably not totally off the mark. The confederate flag symbolized more than just slavery.

    They may have thought there was something to be proud of, but they are wrong. The south seceded from the nation over the emancipation proclamation. They were a barbarous cult of slave owners. Slaves were sold in the streets like farm animals. The whole mob was in on it. The confederate flag represents human abuse. It needs to be remembered as the representation of America's atrocities.
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Nov 16, 2013 2:35 AM GMT
    From Socal's article:


    Slavery was hardly on its last legs in 1860. That year, the South produced almost 75 percent of all U.S. exports. Slaves were worth more than all the manufacturing companies and railroads in the nation. No elite class in history has ever given up such an immense interest voluntarily. Moreover, Confederates eyed territorial expansion into Mexico and Cuba. Short of war, who would have stopped them — or forced them to abandon slavery?To claim that slavery would have ended of its own accord by the mid-20th century is impossible to disprove but difficult to accept. In 1860, slavery was growing more entrenched in the South. Unpaid labor makes for big profits, and the Southern elite was growing ever richer. Freeing slaves was becoming more and more difficult for their owners, as was the position of free blacks in the United States, North as well as South. For the foreseeable future, slavery looked secure. Perhaps a civil war was required to end it. As we commemorate the sesquicentennial of that war, let us take pride this time — as we did not during the centennial — that secession on slavery’s behalf failed.
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Nov 16, 2013 2:52 AM GMT
    ^Are those the economic issues you were talking about, Socal?