If you Were Gullible Before, Proof That All Politicians Lie to Us

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    Nov 20, 2013 1:41 AM GMT
    http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2013-11-18/news/sns-rt-us-usa-healthcare-mckinsey-20131118_1_healthcare-gov-obama-administration-risks

    Kind of like, "I did not have sex with that woman!"

    It would have been impossible for the White House not to have been informed - so why did they persist in lying to us? We were going to find out eventually, anyway. Arrogance. Thankfully, he can not be re-elected, but will successor Hillary be any more honest? OF course not.
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    Nov 20, 2013 2:05 AM GMT
    Kind of like "I did not sleep with that woman."

    Insightful.
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    Nov 20, 2013 6:48 AM GMT
    Can't wait for eight years of Hillary!
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    Nov 20, 2013 8:58 PM GMT
    Aristoshark saidI don't know how you make the leap from Obama, whom I've never really liked (way too conservative for my taste) to Hillary. She will make a fine President.

    I wasn't comparing Hillary to Obama, just recognizing the probability that she will be the next president, and is as likely to lie to us as Obama. If she is the nominee, it will probably be my first time in years that I don't vote for the democratic candidate. I can vainly hope that some true liberal democrat will emerge, and something will cause Hilliary's campaign to falter. I don't see Hillary as a real liberal. She is straight out of the DLC mold. I haven't forgotten that Hillary voted for the Iraq war, and that the Clintons gave us Don't Ask Don't tell, and the Defense of Marriage Act. Three years off, anything is possible.
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    Nov 20, 2013 11:48 PM GMT
    HikerSkier said
    Aristoshark saidI don't know how you make the leap from Obama, whom I've never really liked (way too conservative for my taste) to Hillary. She will make a fine President.

    I wasn't comparing Hillary to Obama, just recognizing the probability that she will be the next president, and is as likely to lie to us as Obama. If she is the nominee, it will probably be my first time in years that I don't vote for the democratic candidate. I can vainly hope that some true liberal democrat will emerge, and something will cause Hilliary's campaign to falter. I don't see Hillary as a real liberal. She is straight out of the DLC mold. I haven't forgotten that Hillary voted for the Iraq war, and that the Clintons gave us Don't Ask Don't tell, and the Defense of Marriage Act. Three years off, anything is possible.


    Make your protest of Hillary count for something. Vote Republican.
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    Nov 21, 2013 12:06 AM GMT
    HikerSkier saidI haven't forgotten that Hillary voted for the Iraq war, and that the Clintons gave us Don't Ask Don't tell, and the Defense of Marriage Act. Three years off, anything is possible.

    Congress voted for the Iraq War in good faith, misled by false Bush Admin intelligence. And the ClintonS (plural) did not both give us anything, unless you also wanna blame Laura Bush for the Iraq disaster, or the Great Bush Recession.

    As for DADT and DOMA, they were compromises forced on Bill Clinton by Washington political realities. He wanted an end to barring gays in the military, but met a wall of resistance he couldn't overcome. DADT was a tactical end-run that bypassed Congressional & Pentagon opposition. Seriously flawed, but better than what was previously in place, the total banning & criminalization of all gays from the military.

    DOMA was a Republican Congressional initiative, which Clinton couldn't stop. It was political poison to oppose it in the mid-1990s, and Clinton's veto would have likely failed. DOMA reflected the attitude of US voters of that time period.

    So let's stop with this phony blaming of Clinton for these 2 policies. One was the best military gays could get at the time, and the other was a Republican homophobic bill, prompted by Hawaii's consideration of gay marriage, that Clinton couldn't stop.
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    Nov 21, 2013 12:14 AM GMT
    ART_DECO said
    HikerSkier saidI haven't forgotten that Hillary voted for the Iraq war, and that the Clintons gave us Don't Ask Don't tell, and the Defense of Marriage Act. Three years off, anything is possible.

    Congress voted for the Iraq War in good faith, misled by false Bush Admin intelligence. And the ClintonS (plural) did not both give us anything, unless you also wanna blame Laura Bush for the Iraq disaster, or the Great Bush Recession.

    As for DADT and DOMA, they were compromises forced on Bill Clinton by Washington political realities. He wanted an end to barring gays in the military, but met a wall of resistance he couldn't overcome. DADT was a tactical end-run that bypassed Congressional & Pentagon opposition. Seriously flawed, but better than what was previously in place, the total banning & criminalization of all gays from the military.

    DOMA was a Republican Congressional initiative, which Clinton couldn't stop. It was political poison to oppose it in the mid-1990s, and Clinton's veto would have likely failed. DOMA reflected the attitude of US voters of that time period.

    So let's stop with this phony blaming of Clinton for these 2 policies. One was the best military gays could get at the time, and the other was a Republican homophobic bill, prompted by Hawaii's consideration of gay marriage, that Clinton couldn't stop.


    "and Clinton's veto would have likely failed"

    I don't recall him giving it a try.

    "misled by false Bush Admin intelligence"

    I somewhat surprised that Bush had this kind of influence while he was still governor of Texas.





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    Nov 21, 2013 5:27 PM GMT
    ART_DECO said
    HikerSkier saidI haven't forgotten that Hillary voted for the Iraq war, and that the Clintons gave us Don't Ask Don't tell, and the Defense of Marriage Act. Three years off, anything is possible.

    Congress voted for the Iraq War in good faith, misled by false Bush Admin intelligence. And the ClintonS (plural) did not both give us anything, unless you also wanna blame Laura Bush for the Iraq disaster, or the Great Bush Recession.

    As for DADT and DOMA, they were compromises forced on Bill Clinton by Washington political realities. He wanted an end to barring gays in the military, but met a wall of resistance he couldn't overcome. DADT was a tactical end-run that bypassed Congressional & Pentagon opposition. Seriously flawed, but better than what was previously in place, the total banning & criminalization of all gays from the military.

    DOMA was a Republican Congressional initiative, which Clinton couldn't stop. It was political poison to oppose it in the mid-1990s, and Clinton's veto would have likely failed. DOMA reflected the attitude of US voters of that time period.

    So let's stop with this phony blaming of Clinton for these 2 policies. One was the best military gays could get at the time, and the other was a Republican homophobic bill, prompted by Hawaii's consideration of gay marriage, that Clinton couldn't stop.

    As to DADT and DOMA, we simply disagree - There is nothing phony about blaiming Clinton for his actions. Regardless of Republican support, and your view of popular sentiment, Clinton didn't have to put his name on either. Putting the Japanese-born american citizens in concentration camps was very "popular" also. But an entirely unnecessary and evil act by a Democratic president. Nothing like bending to "the popular will." If other presidents had always done what was popular, you probably wouldn't be here today, as all homosexuals would have been killed, imprisoned, or forced to live on the margins of society in times past.
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    Nov 21, 2013 5:46 PM GMT
    HikerSkier said
    Aristoshark saidI don't know how you make the leap from Obama, whom I've never really liked (way too conservative for my taste) to Hillary. She will make a fine President.

    I wasn't comparing Hillary to Obama, just recognizing the probability that she will be the next president, and is as likely to lie to us as Obama. If she is the nominee, it will probably be my first time in years that I don't vote for the democratic candidate. I can vainly hope that some true liberal democrat will emerge, and something will cause Hilliary's campaign to falter. I don't see Hillary as a real liberal. She is straight out of the DLC mold. I haven't forgotten that Hillary voted for the Iraq war, and that the Clintons gave us Don't Ask Don't tell, and the Defense of Marriage Act. Three years off, anything is possible.


    For some odd reason, I highly doubt you voted for Obama. icon_lol.gif
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    Nov 21, 2013 5:53 PM GMT
    meninlove said
    HikerSkier said
    Aristoshark saidI don't know how you make the leap from Obama, whom I've never really liked (way too conservative for my taste) to Hillary. She will make a fine President.

    I wasn't comparing Hillary to Obama, just recognizing the probability that she will be the next president, and is as likely to lie to us as Obama. If she is the nominee, it will probably be my first time in years that I don't vote for the democratic candidate. I can vainly hope that some true liberal democrat will emerge, and something will cause Hilliary's campaign to falter. I don't see Hillary as a real liberal. She is straight out of the DLC mold. I haven't forgotten that Hillary voted for the Iraq war, and that the Clintons gave us Don't Ask Don't tell, and the Defense of Marriage Act. Three years off, anything is possible.


    For some odd reason, I highly doubt you voted for Obama. icon_lol.gif

    Doubt as you will, but it was a hold your nose and vote situation - I was certainly not going to vote for the Republican McCain - a wonderful anti-gay message he had to give. Nor Romney. I was one of the defectors who voted for Nader a while back.
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    Nov 21, 2013 6:02 PM GMT
    Purists Rule!
    They rule a tiny little imaginary kingdom.

    My most political friend is someone who has never voted, ever. He's proud that he has never lowered his standards. The sad, pathetic thing is that he can lecture for hours about what this country should do.

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    Nov 21, 2013 6:38 PM GMT
    Lifter4ever saidPurists Rule!
    They rule a tiny little imaginary kingdom.

    My most political friend is someone who has never voted, ever. He's proud that he has never lowered his standards. The sad, pathetic thing is that he can lecture for hours about what this country should do.

    Voting for president may be irrelevant for a lot of people. Since we don't have a popular vote for president - only the electoral college - in states like California which have a one-sided majority for one party, one's vote doesn't really count in the general election - only in the primary - since the vast majority will have voted the way of the majority party and the electoral votes are already decided.
  • jock_1

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    Nov 21, 2013 10:25 PM GMT
    Ernie1961 saidCan't wait for eight years of Hillary!


    Oh I do hope she runs. That would be a gift for the republicans to regain the White House. With all the failed Obama hope and change and his lies to the American people and all his lies it will probably be a bad election year for the Dems. They are scurrying like little ants to distance themselves from Obama. Too bad they voted for Obamcare. It will be thier downfall.
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Nov 21, 2013 10:28 PM GMT
    jock_1 said
    Ernie1961 saidCan't wait for eight years of Hillary!


    Oh I do hope she runs. That would be a gift for the republicans to regain the White House. With all the failed Obama hope and change and his lies to the American people and all his lies it will probably be a bad election year for the Dems. They are scurrying like little ants to distance themselves from Obama. Too bad they voted for Obamcare. It will be thier downfall.

    The republicans' downfall will be that they just don't have the numbers to win a national election. They're just preaching to the choir.
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    Nov 21, 2013 11:22 PM GMT
    HottJoe said
    jock_1 said
    Ernie1961 saidCan't wait for eight years of Hillary!


    Oh I do hope she runs. That would be a gift for the republicans to regain the White House. With all the failed Obama hope and change and his lies to the American people and all his lies it will probably be a bad election year for the Dems. They are scurrying like little ants to distance themselves from Obama. Too bad they voted for Obamcare. It will be thier downfall.

    The republicans' downfall will be that they just don't have the numbers to win a national election. They're just preaching to the choir.


    At this point I agree and I don't see how we're going to get there. We still have 29 statehouses though.