Why Gays Can't Love

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    Dec 05, 2008 11:05 PM GMT
    The gay man by nature is self absorbed and vain. Their attractions are empty ones based on lust or convenience. They justify their abhorrent behavior on a illusory "gay community". It's okay to sleep around, cheat, and have open relationships because it's what the other gay men do.
    There is this unrealistic standard that gay men hold themselves to; if they don't look like a model, have muscles, or youth then their self esteem withers away. They become bitter and jaded, spouting the same ideals that ruined them to a younger generation like a fountain of poison and filth.

    Stereotypes. The image that we are pigeonholed into. Gay people are just people, like everyone else. I'm sick of seeing threads that try to differentiate gay people from straight people, turning the accusations of the right wing and false-neo-nazi-christians into truth by accepting the idea that we're different. I hate when I see someone young glorifying their slutty behavior when in reality they are just empty whores who need the company of many men in order to feel good about themselves; and even then it's a cheap hungry self worth. If they don't grow out of it, some never do, they fade into obscurity and are destroyed by the convictions and low standards they held so dear.

    I'm venting at a world too entertained to listen. I hope my anger becomes contagious. I know you see what I see or else there wouldn't be posts like, "Do gay faithful relationships exist?" "G0y threads" and such outrage when a trite subject is brought up.

    We should be fighting for our right to marry, fighting to be viewed as the human beings we are. But instead we are in the clubs funded by shadow corporations that pour money into antigay campagins. I fear that the oppertunity we have now to gain rights is diming, we are too complacent and are waiting for the next good song or next hot fuck. If we can ever escape our flashy prisons, stop perpetuating and enforcing dangerous sterotypes, then maybe we'll be able to see ourselves as people instead of gay people, and just maybe our enimies will see it too.

    A guy can hope.
  • TexanMan82

    Posts: 893

    Dec 05, 2008 11:36 PM GMT
    Who is this "we" of whom you speak?
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    Dec 05, 2008 11:45 PM GMT
    Amen.

    I agree. There shouldn't be stereotypes placed on the gay community. Who places them?

    We actually do ourselves.

    I did a small research project years ago on the gay community and promiscuity. I found out how to be a whore myself, that's about it. I found so many resources about gay escapades, etc.... I really didn't find anything positive out there about the community.

    I often wonder if we strive for perfection. This is why there are so many lonely gay men. They can never settle down with someone because they view themselves as perfect. Then before they no it. They're old and no one wants them.

    I think gay men should take a more realistic approach to the community. We are just the same as everyone else. We can find partners and be happy just like everyone else.
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    Dec 05, 2008 11:48 PM GMT
    Oh, grab a drink and relax. It's Friday!

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  • GQjock

    Posts: 11649

    Dec 05, 2008 11:48 PM GMT
    Stereotypes is is what stereotypes does

    Florist Gump
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    Dec 05, 2008 11:54 PM GMT
    BRAVO. agreed entirely and completely. and thoroughly eloquent, as always. i could only have said it a little bit better ;)

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    Dec 06, 2008 12:08 AM GMT
    I am glad to see a young gay man stating what has always bothered me about homophobia, specifically homophobia from gay men. People think that gay men are somehow different from their straight peers in terms of being faithful, or sex drive, etc..

    Most men are rutting pigs regardless of sexual orientation. I don't mean that as a negative but as a statement of fact. It is good to have a healthy sex drive and to want to express it. Unfortunately that sometimes means that men have troubling disciplining their sex drive so it does not put their emotional, spiritual or physical health in jeopardy. I have seen men ruin their relationships and put their health in danger because they could not keep their pecker in their pants when they needed to.
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    Dec 06, 2008 12:21 AM GMT
    In the first paragraph you have done exactly what you complain of in the rest of your post. Don't get me wrong, I agree with the vast majority of what you said. However, the title and the first paragraph are the problem which you speak of.

    The gay man is by nature....how is the gay man different then the straight man by nature? I don't think he is.

    Their attractions are empty ones based on lust or convenience? What? Maybe for many, but by no means is this the case with all or even most gay men.

    They justify their abhorrent behavior on a illusory "gay community".
    Illusory? Yes? Perhaps there is a sub-culture, but anyone that is familiar with the backstabbing rumor mill that defines the gay sub-culture would be remiss to call this a community of any sort. Yet at the same time let me tell you that I have personally seen the overwhelming support that gay guys give other gay guys during tough times. There are some incredible people right here on this site that will step up and help out others in times of need, perhaps more so then their own family and friends. Community, a spirit of kinship, togetherness, support of our own, that exists where you choose to see it, grow it, and be it. Otherwise, yeah it's an illusion. But if you're one of the lucky few to see it in action it becomes far more then an illusion.

    It's okay to sleep around, cheat, and have open relationships because it's what the other gay men do.
    First of all, is that what other gay men do? You have painted all day men with a wide brush in implying that they all sleep around. This comment does all the guys that aren't like that a tremendous disservice. Yes some do, but not all. Further, I can't tell you how many guys wreck their relationships and then accuse their partner of cheating with no actual proof, but it's soooo damn much easier then owning your own part. Peoples sexual habits are what they are, and who are we to say what's right for everyone else. What two consenting adults choose to do behind closed doors is their own business as long as it's not hurting anyone else. But to say that all gay men are scoundrels does us all a great disservice in reinforcing the very stereotypes you are protesting.

    There is this unrealistic standard that gay men hold themselves to; if they don't look like a model, have muscles, or youth then their self esteem withers away. They become bitter and jaded, spouting the same ideals that ruined them to a younger generation like a fountain of poison and filth.

    You know this is a very judgmental statement. Again many do this, but not all and probably not even most. Why is it that every gay guy who takes pride in his body, and enjoys pushing his body to new levels of performance, who enjoys beating his own best performances, and spends his time in pursuit of the bettering of himself, must necessarily be this narcissistic, vain, ego-maniac in pursuit of the illusory fountain of youth. Obsession is a word lazy people use to describe dedication. It's usually the drunks, and the slobs, and those with terminally low self-esteem that are pointing out what "those kind" are doing, because "those kind" are usually too busy improving their own lives to give a damn what anyone is doing or not doing. Improving their bodies, improving on their own personal bests, growing their own fulfilling relationships, forging their own true friendships, is what their life is about, not the mockery of how others choose to live theirs.
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    Dec 06, 2008 12:24 AM GMT


    I don't think you're being fair to the gen populous.

    -Now don't get me wrong, I'm not defending careless promiscuity, or ones contempt in their own ignorance, but in your intro paragraph you've basically pointed out the state of humanity in the hetero sense.

    I don't know what facade, or illusions of grandeur type society your imagining, but we do have our own facet of reality vs. the typical hetero. -And we should address them because as much as we would like to be included and not considered any different, we are still the minority and therefore reflect certain concerns that exclude said majority.

    ..Take it from a minority.

    Stereotypes will always be a part of EVERY social group, both the ugly and the good. This lifestyle is still in its late taboo phase as we continue to break new grounds. I say ease up a lil...we're working on it.




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    Dec 06, 2008 12:27 AM GMT
    seanp7 saidOh, grab a drink and relax. It's Friday!

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    Im right behind you!
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    Dec 06, 2008 12:37 AM GMT
    Lets see here...too many blanketed statements, absolutes, we(s), they(s)....and grossly biased statements based on "empirical" evidence.
  • DCEric

    Posts: 3713

    Dec 06, 2008 12:42 AM GMT
    Its been said better before:

    SanchoWho you callin' we, white man?


    Wow.. um. yeah. That's a lot of wild accusations you are tossing around there, and given that there is only ever one persons psyche that anyone can fully comprehend, I think you have lead us to some interesting incites about you.
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    Dec 06, 2008 12:45 AM GMT
    DCEric saidIts been said better before:

    SanchoWho you callin' we, white man?


    Wow.. um. yeah. That's a lot of wild accusations you are tossing around there, and given that there is only ever one persons psyche that anyone can fully comprehend, I think you have lead us to some interesting incites about you.


    Even that is a stretch. I assume that you mean that we can understand our own psyches... but really, we can only understand the conscious bits of it. HUGE amounts of our behavior can be attributed to unconscious motivations, beliefs, memories etc...

  • DCEric

    Posts: 3713

    Dec 06, 2008 12:52 AM GMT
    ZbmwM5 said

    Even that is a stretch. I assume that you mean that we can understand our own psyches... but really, we can only understand the conscious bits of it. HUGE amounts of our behavior can be attributed to unconscious motivations, beliefs, memories etc...



    Oh bah! I think I say something intelligent, and someone has to go and mess it up!

    /Just kidding, though you knew what I was getting at. icon_biggrin.gif
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    Dec 06, 2008 1:07 AM GMT
    *sighs*

    First of all, the first paragraph is a negative sterotype of a gay man, nothing of substance yet this image still lives

    Second, I'm well aware there will always be stereotypes, but it seems to me some people (the people who boast of their sexual exploits like they are badges) don't care about the negative reflection that's cast

    Third, I know I'm making sweeping generalizations and not being fair to the general populous but it's those individuals that take pride in their immorality. I know that people who take time to work on their bodies are not all vain, but I'm not talking about them.

    It's hard to make targets so I spoke in absolutes, but you all know at least one person who is fits the description of the first paragraph. When I say "we" I mean every single gay person, why don't we shake things up more to get what we want?
  • DCEric

    Posts: 3713

    Dec 06, 2008 1:33 AM GMT
    Well, if your idea of changing sweeping generalizations, is to proclaim them as true, I will be right back. I have some matzah to make with the blood of Christian children, as soon as I finish counting my money, and coordinating with the secret organization that has successfully subverted the world.

    /In case you missed it, I proved a stereotype true... I was bitterly sarcastic. Oh the horror.
    //Dang it, I did it again.

    Your method of changing stereotypes hasn't met much success in the past. If that is how an individual is, then that is how they are. You are almost asking someone to shove their personality into the closet for your benefit. It is their choice, and it is not yours. The African-American community did not achieve equality by suppressing and shoving out of the spotlight its stereotypes. They shoved them into the public spotlight, and screamed, "We have these problems and it is because we are not treated equally."

    Now if only there was another group that could take on this message.
    /Shucks there I go again!
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    Dec 06, 2008 1:34 AM GMT
    Who are you to judge?

    .........................PhotobucketPhotobucket

    The problem with the gay community (if there is a problem) is the use of these sweeping gay stereotypes. These "truths" about gay men are just like wive's tales or rumors. They are the product of gossip within groups of gay men that have somehow been exhaulted to the level of fact.

    It's a concept and I don't claim to be a credited mental doctor, but I think these rumors are demonstrative of what I think most gay men are, afraid. It started early for most of us, from very young we heard how wrong it is to be gay: that all gay men are degenerates, sick, twisted....everything bad under the sun. It's no wonder that no matter how educated (in school and life) we become or how out we think we are that we still feed on that old programming.

    I'd love to know how you came to believe this garbage. Did you conduct a legitimate survey, have you even dated many men yourself and they fit this stereotype: probably not. Even if you did, a survey is not legitimate unless you use a diverse respondant group and if every guy you date you met in a gay bar or on the internet, FAIL.

    The gay bar, so much of this poison is connected to the gay bar. It's a bar for goodness sake: people get wasted and wanna fuck. Maybe if more gay men participated in community events or went to a park or a theatre once in a while they may find that a whole other breed of gay man can be found in non night club settings.

    We aren't different than straight men, yes we are! Straight men adhere to a whole new different set of beliefs than we do (don't cry, don't smile, don't play with barbies). Straight men belong to a different community: half of their money goes to their family (half of our money goes to having the sexiest yard on the block).

    LOL, all joking aside, we are very different and instead of obsessing over how bad it is to be different we need to accept our differences, especially that all gay men are different, not just one sweeping stereotype. As long as we try to maintain this flemsy similiarity with straight people (and we do it because it represents normalcy or atleast what society says is normal) the longer we will always feel like mutants or outcasts. The minute we accept we are different and build our own norms we can grow and stop accepting these tired lies as normal.

    ......................................................upgrade u Pictures, Images and Photos

    It's time to start clean. Avoid people who fit this so called stereotype, every guy you think is below par. One of two things will happen: either you'll discover that you are letting yourself be around a lot of men who fit this stereotype or that every man you thought fit the stereotype you were just judging at face value. You really can't judge anyone until you get to know them so start putting yourself in diverse situations and stop using stereotypes. I guess I'm suggesting you date more men (just date), atleast then your argument can have a valid perimeter. ALL THE GAY MEN I'VE DATED....I can buy that, but ALL GAY MEN....I don't wanna hear that, you haven't met every gay man.
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    Dec 06, 2008 1:49 AM GMT
    GuiltyGear saidWe aren't different than straight men, yes we are! Straight men adhere to a whole new different set of beliefs than we do (don't cry, don't smile, don't play with barbies).


    The only difference is the title gay and straight. All men are created equal. If there were no title you cannot say for certain boys wouldn't play with "girl toys"

    DCEric said

    Your method of changing stereotypes hasn't met much success in the past. If that is how an individual is, then that is how they are. You are almost asking someone to shove their personality into the closet for your benefit. It is their choice, and it is not yours. The African-American community did not achieve equality by suppressing and shoving out of the spotlight its stereotypes. They shoved them into the public spotlight, and screamed, "We have these problems and it is because we are not treated equally."

    Now if only there was another group that could take on this message.
    /Shucks there I go again!


    I'm not demanding they "shove their personality into the closet" but since when is it okay to be a whore? Don't get me started on bathhouses.

    And yes, "we have these problems and it is because we are not treated equally", but does that mean we resign ourselves and try not to fix them? I'm not asking for any quick dramatic change, just tired of seeing love vindicated over something so stupid.
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    Dec 06, 2008 2:02 AM GMT
    What is wrong with being a whore?
    What is wrong with sleeping around?

    Why is your sexual morality superior to others?

    Your sexual morality does not work for everyone and it is arrogant and short sighted of you to think so. Some relationship models just do not work for some people. If they did, we would all be married to a woman and popping out kids. Look, if monogamy works for you (and that is my own preference in the four year relationship I am in) marvelous. But don't get on a rickety soap box and complain about how other people lead their lives.
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    Dec 06, 2008 2:06 AM GMT
    All I say is why are we talking about it online on this site? I will believe your convictions when you! and I say YOU get out and fight yourself and show us your beliefs. Otherwise your just bitching for the sake of bitching like the democrats that I have grown up seeing in the house senate and gay community. Get out and make some real noise not just writing a damn post where most people wont listen anyway.


    PS I do agree with what you said, but get your ass out there
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    Dec 06, 2008 2:22 AM GMT
    Wow I must say that after reading this my hope for the gay "community" increased a smidgen. I agree a lot with what you said, especially the stereotypes. Unfortunately, however, stereotypes exist for a reason, gay men are men who don't have to adhere to certain societal expectations, like getting married or settling down, but then, who said that these are wrong for gay men? I certainly agree that the majority out there spout nothing but vitriol when they hear words like "monogamy", "exclusive", and "committed". They seem to want nothing to do with it. Then there are the ones who want relationships, but they want to take it a step beyond, into polygamy. Just the other night I had an older man trying to tell me that my vehement belief in monogamy would fade as I get older, and that I'd wisen up and learn to like a "monogamous" polygamous ltr, ok that right there is contradictory, how can a relationship between three, or four, or five men be "monogamous"? Clearly the old dog just wants the convenience of a an ltr without the confines of one, and guys like him throw the gay movement back decades. However, I don't judge guys based on their relationship status or what they believe in, however it seems like anyone who has an open belief for a "closed" relationship get laughed at by the rest of the community, the very ones who say "you're dreaming if you think monogamy exists," are the very ones who who cause it not to. It's such a shame that, even though we no longer have to lurk in bathhouses to meet other gays, that gay men still follow their hardons and not their hearts.
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    Dec 06, 2008 2:27 AM GMT
    MunchingZombie saidWhat is wrong with being a whore?
    What is wrong with sleeping around?

    Why is your sexual morality superior to others?

    Your sexual morality does not work for everyone and it is arrogant and short sighted of you to think so. Some relationship models just do not work for some people. If they did, we would all be married to a woman and popping out kids. Look, if monogamy works for you (and that is my own preference in the four year relationship I am in) marvelous. But don't get on a rickety soap box and complain about how other people lead their lives.


    amen, slut.icon_biggrin.gif
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    Dec 06, 2008 2:44 AM GMT
    Miasma said
    GuiltyGear saidWe aren't different than straight men, yes we are! Straight men adhere to a whole new different set of beliefs than we do (don't cry, don't smile, don't play with barbies).


    The only difference is the title gay and straight. All men are created equal. If there were no title you cannot say for certain boys wouldn't play with "girl toys"


    The title is not the difference. YOU are queer, dear, that is the difference. If all men are created equal, why don't you fuck girls?....I'm waiting. You won't get anywhere with what ifs. The reality is the lines are drawn and within the confines of those boundaries you are different from a straight man. Get over it.

    MunchingZombie saidWhat is wrong with being a whore?
    What is wrong with sleeping around?

    Why is your sexual morality superior to others?

    Your sexual morality does not work for everyone and it is arrogant and short sighted of you to think so. Some relationship models just do not work for some people. If they did, we would all be married to a woman and popping out kids. Look, if monogamy works for you (and that is my own preference in the four year relationship I am in) marvelous. But don't get on a rickety soap box and complain about how other people lead their lives.


    Nothing is wrong with it, but it being the norm, yes, there is something wrong with that. If it were the norm this would not be a rich and diverse community that we both know it is. It's not a norm, it is a stereotype and should not be applied to all gay men because like you said, we all do choose different relationship models. In general, I do not mind anyone being fast, easy, promiscuous, what have you, but I do have a problem with being regarded as that myself. I take offense then. At that point, I do enjoy drawing a differentiation. I don't sag my pants and I'm not a slut, call me superior if you need to, just don't cubbyhole me. icon_cool.gif
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    Dec 06, 2008 3:19 AM GMT
    GuiltyGear said
    Miasma said
    GuiltyGear saidWe aren't different than straight men, yes we are! Straight men adhere to a whole new different set of beliefs than we do (don't cry, don't smile, don't play with barbies).


    The only difference is the title gay and straight. All men are created equal. If there were no title you cannot say for certain boys wouldn't play with "girl toys"


    The title is not the difference. YOU are queer, dear, that is the difference. If all men are created equal, why don't you fuck girls?....I'm waiting. You won't get anywhere with what ifs. The reality is the lines are drawn and within the confines of those boundaries you are different from a straight man. Get over it.



    The obvious difference between straight and gay is sexual attraction, but we're still men, and it should not mean we are treated differently. You become imprisoned by your titles.
  • MotorBrett

    Posts: 145

    Dec 06, 2008 3:37 AM GMT
    ugh... i hate emo kids....