Florist Declines to Provide Flowers to a Gay Wedding

  • Cutlass

    Posts: 451

    Nov 28, 2013 9:44 AM GMT
    Do you remember the controversy regarding a florist's refusal to provide flowers for a wedding of two men in the state of Washington? Gay marriage is now legal in this state, the voters having approved it, yet we knew that there would be some people who would refuse to comply with the state law.
    Arlene's Flowers in Richland, WA, is being sued by the attorney general for its refusal to provide flowers; and the ACLU has filed a suit against the florist and its owner Barronelle Stutzman on behalf of the two men. I believe the wedding has already taken place.
    The Alliance Defending Freedom is representing Stutzman in this case, and their defense is that the attorney general has no standing in this case and that the Washington States Human Rights Commission handles all matters relating to discrimination; moreover, the Alliance claims Stutzman is not liable because the men never instituted any suit of complaint to the state.
    We'll see how this plays out.
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    Feb 19, 2015 3:49 PM GMT
    "You Don't Sell Me Flowers... Anymore!" icon_lol.gif

    ABCNews (via AP)A judge has ruled that a florist in Washington state who refused to provide flowers to a gay couple for their wedding violated state consumer protection and anti-discrimination law.

    In an opinion Wednesday, Benton County Superior Court Judge Alex Ekstrom rejected arguments from the owner of Arlene's Flowers in Richland that her actions were protected by her religious freedom.

    He said that while religious beliefs are protected by the First Amendment, actions based on those beliefs aren't necessarily.

    Courts have long held that lawmakers can prohibit discriminatory conduct, and the judge said florist Barronelle Stutzman broke the law when she refused to sell flowers for a same-sex wedding in 2013.

    Washington Attorney General Bob Ferguson and the American Civil Liberties Union of Washington welcomed the ruling.
  • Svnw688

    Posts: 3350

    Feb 19, 2015 4:11 PM GMT
    That's right Dayuum. Ruling came down, and she is LIABLE for breaking the anti-discrimination law.

    Her religious "beliefs" are protected, her discriminatory "acts" are not.

    Score one for our team and equality in general! icon_cool.gificon_cool.gificon_cool.gif
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    Feb 19, 2015 4:12 PM GMT
    dayumm said"You Don't Sell Me Flowers... Anymore!" icon_lol.gif

    I saw that before logging on and knew immediately that was you. Good one.
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    Feb 19, 2015 6:04 PM GMT

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Feb 19, 2015 6:18 PM GMT
    Some states are treating this differently. Although gay marriage is legal here, they are providing religious exemption to both churches and others, who do not want to provide any services for gay weddings. If this is their church and business policy and they don't wish to provide this particular service for gay weddings for religious reasons, they are allowed to exempt their church and business from servicing such weddings. However, it's all or nothing. They can't serve one gay wedding and then refuse another. It's basically treated the same as taking nude pictures etc. The courts protect photographers, if they don't want to take pics of nudity, pornography, and also gay weddings here. The courts here say this is not discrimination because they are refusing to provide this particular service (i.e gay weddings) and not refusing to serve them in other services that they do provide.
  • Svnw688

    Posts: 3350

    Feb 19, 2015 9:11 PM GMT
    @Michael61, exactly.

    Churches are protected by the 1st Amendment, so they need no additional protection. They can discriminate against gays--or blacks, or whatever minority--they'd like.

    With respect to individuals, they are also protected by the 1st Amendment, so individuals can BELIEVE whatever they want--no matter how hateful and bigoted. See Westboro for an example.

    The issue is RELIGIOUS INDIVIDUALS who engage in COMMERCE. The federal law, RFRA, which was much ballyhooed in Hobby Lobby, only applies to FEDERAL laws. See City of Bourne v. Flores, 521 U.S. 507 (1997). So the usual "Supremacy Clause" issue is NOT applicable here.

    As such, this flower shop lady could NOT plead RFRA against the Washington State charges for discrimination and violation of consumer protection laws. As such, it's a STATE BY STATE issue. Some states have passed "State RFRAs" which step in where the Federal law leaves off. States with "State RFRAs" allow bigots to claim "religious exemption" to cover their discrimination. Those states are: Alabama, Arizona, Connecticut, Florida, Idaho, Illinois, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Mississippi, Missouri, New Mexico, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas and Virginia.

    If you live in one of the above jurisdictions, flower shops (and other businesses) can deny "the gays" flowers (or whatever product or service they sell). If your state or jurisdiction (D.C.) is NOT on that list, as is the case with Washington state, then you MIGHT have to treat people equally (depending on the state's civil rights laws, and/or Constitution).
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Feb 26, 2015 10:22 PM GMT

    When the sack of shit bon_salieri stops lying about me, stops harrassing me, referencing me, addressing me, etc., so will stop my postings into every thread into which he has posted since the last time he fucked with me, my warning to anyone unsuspecting the truth about him as shown in screenshots of his own words. If he stops, I’ll stop. It is that simple..

    bon_saleri said tumblr_mor73xbH171r0jpapo1_500.gif

    His last abuse that I know of was on Dec 11 at about 6:30 PM.

    His latest abuse was Thursday Feb 26, 2015 3:20 PM here:
    bon_pan said
    theantijock saidMy puppy dog always used to look my way. Probably nothing to worry about. But then, my puppy dog wasn't an ax murderer.

    Just give him time...

    He starts off as a charming flatterer knowing people find that fun

    He makes it seem like he wants to suck your cock

    But all he wants to do is piss on you

    Anyone who supports that anti-Semite is scum.

    Hey bon_bon. Go fuck yourself into eternity. You walking talking piece of shit you.