Can one be a closet heterosexual?

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    Dec 02, 2013 5:43 PM GMT
    I posted David Bowie's Changes in response to a poster in one of the What's on Your Mind threads and then wondered how old he is. I took a Wiki look and noticed the following:

    "Buckley writes, "If Ziggy confused both his creator and his audience, a big part of that confusion centred on the topic of sexuality."[158] Bowie declared himself gay in an interview with Michael Watts in the 22 January 1972 issue of Melody Maker,[159] a move which coincided with the first shots in his campaign for stardom as Ziggy Stardust.[44] In a September 1976 interview with Playboy, Bowie said: "It's true—I am a bisexual. But I can't deny that I've used that fact very well. I suppose it's the best thing that ever happened to me."[160]

    In a 1983 interview with Rolling Stone, Bowie said his public declaration of bisexuality was "the biggest mistake I ever made" and "I was always a closet heterosexual".[161] On other occasions, he said his interest in homosexual and bisexual culture had been more a product of the times and the situation in which he found himself than his own feelings; as described by Buckley, he said he had been driven more by "a compulsion to flout moral codes than a real biological and psychological state of being".[162][163]

    Asked in 2002 by Blender whether he still believed his public declaration was the biggest mistake he ever made, he replied:


    Interesting. [Long pause] I don't think it was a mistake in Europe, but it was a lot tougher in America. I had no problem with people knowing I was bisexual. But I had no inclination to hold any banners nor be a representative of any group of people. I knew what I wanted to be, which was a songwriter and a performer, and I felt that bisexuality became my headline over here for so long. America is a very puritanical place, and I think it stood in the way of so much I wanted to do.[164]

    Buckley's view of the period is that Bowie, "a taboo-breaker and a dabbler ... mined sexual intrigue for its ability to shock",[165] and that "it is probably true that Bowie was never gay, nor even consistently actively bisexual ... he did, from time to time, experiment, even if only out of a sense of curiosity and a genuine allegiance with the 'transgressional'."[166] Biographer Christopher Sandford says that according to Mary Finnigan, with whom Bowie had an affair in 1969, the singer and his first wife Angie "lived in a fantasy world ... and they created their bisexual fantasy."[167] Sandford tells how, during the marriage, Bowie "made a positive fetish of repeating the quip that he and his wife had met while 'fucking the same bloke' ... Gay sex was always an anecdotal and laughing matter. That Bowie's actual tastes swung the other way is clear from even a partial tally of his affairs with women."[167]"


    Hell, I'm still the first to do something like this by two years
  • HottJoe

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    Dec 02, 2013 5:52 PM GMT
    It's more like he came out of a pretend closet, if he wasn't really gay or bi. Straight men don't have the proverbial closet, since people are generally considered straight at birth.
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    Dec 02, 2013 6:05 PM GMT
    HottJoe saidIt's more like he came out of a pretend closet, if he wasn't really gay or bi. Straight men don't have the proverbial closet, since people are generally considered straight at birth.


    I can relate though. I came out more to champion a cause that wasn't quite a cause yet, and for the shock value then of course to stir shit up. Didn't get killed or anything, but I sure did stir some shit up.
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    Dec 02, 2013 6:14 PM GMT
    Well if you had slept with guys more than once and was able to get hard ons, how can you claim to be straight?

    May be you're the sort of bisexual that can only sexually connect with men, but not emotionally .
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    Dec 02, 2013 6:15 PM GMT
    I broke every known conceivable stereotype. I was far from fem, didn't do drag, was butch, could be very mean, had a horrific temper, could fight and do it well, and then I would tell someone I was gay .... hahaha.

    I took BFs to the NRA national convention, CPAC several times, The Republican National Convention once, long ago. Took a BF to a company anniversary party in 1980 after the president of the company asked me not to do it. Jewish from Austria prior to WWII ... of course you know how that conversation went (a little 'how dare you' in that conversation). Even if it costed me my job (it didn't), I was still going to do it.
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    Dec 02, 2013 6:16 PM GMT
    Solomono saidWell if you had slept with guys more than once and was able to get hard ons, how can you claim to be straight?

    May be you're the sort of bisexual that can only sexually connect with men, but not emotionally .


    You got it backwards

    I never claimed to be straight. I claimed to be nothing or more correctly, no labels fit.
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    Dec 02, 2013 6:20 PM GMT
    freedomisntfree saidI broke every known conceivable stereotype. I was far from fem, didn't do drag, was butch, could be very mean, had a horrific temper, could fight and do it well, and then I would tell someone I was gay .... hahaha.

    I took BFs to the NRA national convention, CPAC several times, The Republican National Convention once, long ago. Took a BF to a company anniversary party in 1980 after the president of the company asked me not to do it. Jewish from Austria prior to WWII ... of course you know how that conversation went (a little 'how dare you' in that conversation). Even if it costed me my job (it didn't), I was still going to do it.


    Still not convinced lol.

    Yeah may be you enjoyed the shock value of it but I won't believe that you didn't enjoy the men ;)

    Unless you were getting some huge monetary compensation for the acting.
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    Dec 02, 2013 6:23 PM GMT
    freedomisntfree said
    Solomono saidWell if you had slept with guys more than once and was able to get hard ons, how can you claim to be straight?

    May be you're the sort of bisexual that can only sexually connect with men, but not emotionally .


    You got it backwards

    I never claimed to be straight. I claimed to be nothing or more correctly, no labels fit.


    Ok this is strange. Even if you were asexual, you wouldn't have sex with guys.

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    Dec 02, 2013 6:42 PM GMT
    Solomono said
    freedomisntfree saidI broke every known conceivable stereotype. I was far from fem, didn't do drag, was butch, could be very mean, had a horrific temper, could fight and do it well, and then I would tell someone I was gay .... hahaha.

    I took BFs to the NRA national convention, CPAC several times, The Republican National Convention once, long ago. Took a BF to a company anniversary party in 1980 after the president of the company asked me not to do it. Jewish from Austria prior to WWII ... of course you know how that conversation went (a little 'how dare you' in that conversation). Even if it costed me my job (it didn't), I was still going to do it.


    Still not convinced lol.

    Yeah may be you enjoyed the shock value of it but I won't believe that you didn't enjoy the men ;)

    Unless you were getting some huge monetary compensation for the acting.


    The emotional connection, yes, but no sexual attraction.
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    Dec 02, 2013 6:43 PM GMT
    Solomono said
    freedomisntfree said
    Solomono saidWell if you had slept with guys more than once and was able to get hard ons, how can you claim to be straight?

    May be you're the sort of bisexual that can only sexually connect with men, but not emotionally .


    You got it backwards

    I never claimed to be straight. I claimed to be nothing or more correctly, no labels fit.


    Ok this is strange. Even if you were asexual, you wouldn't have sex with guys.



    no ****sexual label that fits. This is why Bowie is fascinating.

    I will say that the fight for what at that time was a very unpopular cause was an attraction.

    "Ok this is strange"

    Btw, thanks. One of life's few pleasures is to be considered strange.
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    Dec 02, 2013 7:40 PM GMT
    freedomisntfree said
    Solomono said
    freedomisntfree said
    Solomono saidWell if you had slept with guys more than once and was able to get hard ons, how can you claim to be straight?

    May be you're the sort of bisexual that can only sexually connect with men, but not emotionally .


    You got it backwards

    I never claimed to be straight. I claimed to be nothing or more correctly, no labels fit.


    Ok this is strange. Even if you were asexual, you wouldn't have sex with guys.



    no ****sexual label that fits. This is why Bowie is fascinating.

    I will say that the fight for what at that time was a very unpopular cause was an attraction.

    "Ok this is strange"

    Btw, thanks. One of life's few pleasures is to be considered strange.


    Yeah don't take it offensively. We are all strange in different ways ;) I just never heard of this.
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    Dec 02, 2013 7:44 PM GMT
    Solomono said
    freedomisntfree said
    Solomono said
    freedomisntfree said
    Solomono saidWell if you had slept with guys more than once and was able to get hard ons, how can you claim to be straight?

    May be you're the sort of bisexual that can only sexually connect with men, but not emotionally .


    You got it backwards

    I never claimed to be straight. I claimed to be nothing or more correctly, no labels fit.


    Ok this is strange. Even if you were asexual, you wouldn't have sex with guys.



    no ****sexual label that fits. This is why Bowie is fascinating.

    I will say that the fight for what at that time was a very unpopular cause was an attraction.

    "Ok this is strange"

    Btw, thanks. One of life's few pleasures is to be considered strange.


    Yeah don't take it offensively. We are all strange in different ways ;) I just never heard of this.


    That's one of my goals now just like it was then.

    If I was offended easily, I wouldn't have done this way back when I was 15 and 16.

    I love being strange almost more than being a contrarian. I love folks walking away from a conversation with me shaking their heads muttering WTF!!!
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    Dec 02, 2013 7:49 PM GMT
    look at some of the stuff I've posted over in

    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/975411

    Sure isn't tweet tweet boom boom 120 BPM gay bar disco .... anything but.

    It's what I tell folks about my music collection ..... I hope one has never heard of anything I have.
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    Dec 02, 2013 8:02 PM GMT
    My 60 yr old neighbor is definitely not gay. He calls himself a bachelor.
    He likes the company of younger guys who come over to watch a game and maybe stick around to watch some porn after.
    What happens then is just whatever. No Homo.
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    Dec 02, 2013 8:04 PM GMT
    woodsmen saidThis discussion shows the fluidity of sexual desires. In the modern world, dies straight or gay proper terms anymore? My experience indicates it is very fluid especially where gay marriage is allowed.


    Exactly ... why I ALWAYS say .... no labels when someone tries to pigeon hole me into a ****sexual. None apply. Gender doesn't much matter. My potential attraction goes way deeper than that.
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    Dec 02, 2013 8:05 PM GMT
    JoePK saidMy 60 yr old neighbor is definitely not gay. He calls himself a bachelor.
    He likes the company of younger guys who come over to watch a game and maybe stick around to watch some porn after.
    What happens then is just whatever. No Homo.


    What does matter is this, Mark

    TM/presentmind/balancing/buildingup/georgelifts/jockthevote/unintended/memorex/jim2013/backtotop/cajock753/SteveFla9/Ernie1961/STUARDESS

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    Dec 02, 2013 8:07 PM GMT
    StellarPecs saidHeterosexual, you mean? Could you correct the error?


    I mean ... no labels so it doesn't much matter, but I do see my mistake
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    Dec 02, 2013 8:10 PM GMT
    Aristoshark saidNo offense, but I think pansexuality is just plain weird. I don't want to have to clean my pans afterward just to make some dinner.


    That's not the correct term either.

    "and refer to themselves as gender-blind, asserting that gender and sex are insignificant or irrelevant in determining whether they will be sexually attracted to others"

    Change that 'sexually attracted' to emotionally attracted and it will be a bunch closer.
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    Dec 02, 2013 8:16 PM GMT
    Sounds like the pompous self delusion of a teenager who thinks no one can ever understand him because he's a magical being. Usually dudes grow out of this. Some don't.
    You say you like to have everyone confused by you and your sexuality.
    You imagine yourself to be the object of others' fascination.
    That must feel special.
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    Dec 02, 2013 8:19 PM GMT
    JoePK saidSounds like the pompous self delusion of a teenager who thinks no one can ever understand him because he's a magical being. Usually dudes grow out of this. Some don't.
    You say you like to have everyone confused by you and your sexuality.
    You imagine yourself to be the object of others' fascination.
    That must feel special.


    Go away, TM/presentmind/balancing/buildingup/georgelifts/jockthevote/unintended/memorex/jim2013/backtotop/cajock753/SteveFla9/Ernie1961/STUARDESS
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    Dec 02, 2013 8:24 PM GMT
    ViciousRumor saidTo be a closet heterosexual you would have to live within a society where heterosexuality is stigmatized with serious consequences.

    /thread


    Would that be RJ?
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    Dec 02, 2013 8:37 PM GMT
    ViciousRumor said
    freedomisntfree said
    ViciousRumor saidTo be a closet heterosexual you would have to live within a society where heterosexuality is stigmatized with serious consequences.

    /thread


    Would that be RJ?


    Do you have to be on here? No. You made a choice to be here. You can avoid it if you want to.


    I asked you a question.
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    Dec 02, 2013 8:54 PM GMT
    thebearerofbadnews saidof course... there's some gay guys who are NOT secure with their sexuality at all and you can see it as clear as day.


    Why does one have to have a 'sexuality'?
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    Dec 02, 2013 8:59 PM GMT
    ViciousRumor said
    freedomisntfree said
    ViciousRumor said
    freedomisntfree said
    ViciousRumor saidTo be a closet heterosexual you would have to live within a society where heterosexuality is stigmatized with serious consequences.

    /thread


    Would that be RJ?


    Do you have to be on here? No. You made a choice to be here. You can avoid it if you want to.


    I asked you a question.


    And I answered it. You don't have to be here. If you chosr to be closeted about being straight then that's on you. You're the one who signed up for the membership.


    What does one being here have to with the question?

    "Can one be a closet heterosexual?"
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    Dec 02, 2013 9:06 PM GMT
    ViciousRumor said
    freedomisntfree said
    ViciousRumor said
    freedomisntfree said
    ViciousRumor said
    freedomisntfree said
    ViciousRumor saidTo be a closet heterosexual you would have to live within a society where heterosexuality is stigmatized with serious consequences.

    /thread


    Would that be RJ?


    Do you have to be on here? No. You made a choice to be here. You can avoid it if you want to.


    I asked you a question.


    And I answered it. You don't have to be here. If you chosr to be closeted about being straight then that's on you. You're the one who signed up for the membership.


    What does one being here have to with the question?

    "Can one be a closet heterosexual?"


    Give me an example in which someone would have to be secretive about their being straight in an unavoidable situation?


    Answer a question with a question .... kewl.