Does your JOB conflict with your MORAL Beliefs?

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Dec 02, 2013 9:32 PM GMT
    I understand that people need to work to survive, and sometimes jobs are taken that don't align with moral beliefs. A long time ago (1993), I was asked to sell used and defective audio/video equipment at a one-day gig at a convention center. I walked away when I found out.

    But I imagine there are lots of people employed in jobs that somehow screw or aren't quite honest with consumers. Sales, insurance, etc, etc. My question is, do you know you are misleading consumers at your job, and how do you reconcile that with your own personal beliefs?
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    Dec 02, 2013 9:34 PM GMT
    I wouldn't be able to do that. If my job required me to mislead people, I would suck at it and get fired pretty fast.
  • conservativej...

    Posts: 2465

    Dec 02, 2013 10:38 PM GMT
    Your subject relates to a broad range of business activity in a very fundamental way; that being real "value" for the amount paid. In your case, it was very obvious that the product was a 100% rip off. You did the right thing by walking away.

    I recall getting in trouble with a manager fresh out of college in my work in an R&D center. I had taken a company product and finished and completed it in R&D as an example of what could be done. Someone on the sales team had wandered through and picked it up taking the finished product to the corporate sales office. Oh did that cause problems. The manager was called on the carpet as to why his production product did not met the look, feel, and measure value of what came out of his own R&D center.

    One of the greatest tragedies in U.S. manufactruing has been in the auto industry. The "payroll," even to this day, has always been more important than the product.

    Surprisingly one of the big weaknesses in the U.S. at the moment relates to IT systems. Much of this work has been moved offshore. The product is sometimes the junk you described in your post. Imagine, software developed for a U.S. bank in India and the source code provided does not match the binary pushed to production. Oops!!

    As you said, it is a matter of morals. Some folks simply don't have a solid set or morals.
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    Dec 02, 2013 11:35 PM GMT
    I work in an intensive care unit and you want to talk about morality, work in healthcare. Too many times I've seen patients suffer from pain and families, instead of letting them die in peace, they prefer to keep them alive using artificial machines. So, these patients are staying alive because the family's moral conscience tells them that a higher being will be the ultimate decision maker on whether or not someone remains with the living.

    Despite the bullcrap I have to deal with at work, I would much rather stay in healthcare than my former career which was investment banking. Unlike the financial world, healthcare teaches you about morality and ethics. And also, I like being part of a team that saves lives.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Dec 02, 2013 11:36 PM GMT
    I don't wanna work for The Man.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Dec 02, 2013 11:54 PM GMT
    Not anymore.
  • Apparition

    Posts: 3529

    Dec 03, 2013 3:17 AM GMT
    i have to make crossbow parts sometimes...not thrilled with it.

    i used to make particle board furniture, THAT offended me, not just for the trees it killed, but that they died to become particle board furniture.
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    Dec 03, 2013 3:57 AM GMT
    Erik101 saidI work in an intensive care unit and you want to talk about morality, work in healthcare. Too many times I've seen patients suffer from pain and families, instead of letting them die in peace, they prefer to keep them alive using artificial machines. So, these patients are staying alive because the family's moral conscience tells them that a higher being will be the ultimate decision maker on whether or not someone remains with the living.

    Despite the bullcrap I have to deal with at work, I would much rather stay in healthcare than my former career which was investment banking. Unlike the financial world, healthcare teaches you about morality and ethics. And also, I like being part of a team that saves lives.


    ^This, so this--nothing like breaking the ribs on a full code end stage 70 year old.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Dec 03, 2013 3:59 AM GMT
    Sometimes, but i know how to fix it
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Dec 03, 2013 5:05 AM GMT
    I'm in marketing. Getting overpaid to promote shit I don't believe in. #win
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    Dec 03, 2013 5:06 AM GMT
    WTF is moral?? Morality the way I understand means existing and performing for the greater good. Some would use the synonym "socialism". We (most of humanity)on the other hand are about the ME. Self pleasuring, the need to have the big car, the latest gadget, a throphy spouse, look at me, look at me. There is nothing moral about our culture or anything humans do. Stop the delusion of morality. We are all greedy twisted walmart people especially those at the higher economic scales because they are the first to try and justify inequality.
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    Dec 03, 2013 5:25 AM GMT
    ayer2009 saidWTF is moral?? Morality the way I understand means existing and performing for the greater good. Some would use the synonym "socialism". We (most of humanity)on the other hand are about the ME. Self pleasuring, the need to have the big car, the latest gadget, a throphy spouse, look at me, look at me. There is nothing moral about our culture or anything humans do. Stop the delusion of morality. We are all greedy twisted walmart people especially those at the higher economic scales because they are the first to try and justify inequality.


    Who let you off your chain??
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    Dec 03, 2013 5:38 AM GMT
    being in the business of quality assurance, definitely one must have a moral background or at least a high degree of integrity, honesty and ethics, I couldn't imagine screwing over my customers (rubber stamping) knowing full well they are buying crap, I find in a lot of the corporate world, that profits and share holder value over shadow anything ethically correct. However they seem to care, some corporate management lack any moral judgment, integrity or ethics in favor of cost reduction expendable employees, their bonus structure and profit margins, the honest and true people never get rich, they just move on.

    moralism + capitalism = oxymoron
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    Dec 03, 2013 8:22 AM GMT
    ayer2009 saidWTF is moral?? Morality the way I understand means existing and performing for the greater good. Some would use the synonym "socialism". We (most of humanity)on the other hand are about the ME. Self pleasuring, the need to have the big car, the latest gadget, a throphy spouse, look at me, look at me. There is nothing moral about our culture or anything humans do. Stop the delusion of morality. We are all greedy twisted walmart people especially those at the higher economic scales because they are the first to try and justify inequality.



    lolwut
  • secondstartot...

    Posts: 1314

    Dec 03, 2013 2:27 PM GMT
    yes...two years ago I started working in a chicken farm.........I was a vegetarian
  • secondstartot...

    Posts: 1314

    Dec 03, 2013 2:53 PM GMT
    Trolliosis said... And at the end of the day the chefs were forced to dump a full pot of soup or potatoes, or a full bucket of waffle fries.

    ....


    I used to work at a restaurant too and this used to kill me - it wouldnt kill anyone to give this food away to homeless people

    Im really not religious but one thing I will say for the jewish faith...especially here in Israel is religiously one is required to do charity ... and a lot of places do that here ...at the bus station late at night I see homeless people getting left over pizza at the pizza place and stuff from the bakery ...these two laces close very late.. anyway I was impressed by that cause I hate throwing food away
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    Dec 03, 2013 3:02 PM GMT
    In one particular career (I've had a few) I stood up at a meeting and told the boss I felt we were lying to customers. The boss smiled and explained in an endearing and condescending tone that it was not lying, it was 'positioning'. Lovely gabblespeak to excuse a deficit of ethics.

    Another example was an area where customers had purchased large and complex electronic systems from us. They called in for adds or moves or changes.
    The boss had us, instead of serving the customer, write up orders and place them in a stack. Each day she went through the ever growing stack and pulled the orders requested by the richest customers and gave them to us to do. We were told to tell the rest of our customers that we were backed up but that they had their place in a queue. They just had to be patient. Some of them waited weeks until there were no richest-of-the-customers orders coming in or left to do.


  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Dec 03, 2013 3:13 PM GMT
    In my profession (investigations) there is usually deception when it comes to gaining information although we call it pretexting. It was tough at first but then I realized it was a game, and as long as I played by the rules, I had to do w.e it took to win and that included lying once in a while
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Dec 03, 2013 5:19 PM GMT
    Conflict? No way. Being a lawyer who prosecutes people and companies who commit consumer fraud complements my moral and ethical beliefs and allows me to further them every day. As far as a "moral philosophy" (pace, J.S. Mill) goes, mine is a simple and old-fashioned one: I believe people should be held accountable for their actions and bad people should be punished for the evil they do. As a result, I absolutely LOVE my job ... but will have no qualms in retiring next Summer. icon_cool.gif
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    Dec 03, 2013 5:25 PM GMT
    dustin_K_tx said
    Erik101 saidI work in an intensive care unit and you want to talk about morality, work in healthcare. Too many times I've seen patients suffer from pain and families, instead of letting them die in peace, they prefer to keep them alive using artificial machines. So, these patients are staying alive because the family's moral conscience tells them that a higher being will be the ultimate decision maker on whether or not someone remains with the living.

    Despite the bullcrap I have to deal with at work, I would much rather stay in healthcare than my former career which was investment banking. Unlike the financial world, healthcare teaches you about morality and ethics. And also, I like being part of a team that saves lives.


    ^This, so this--nothing like breaking the ribs on a full code end stage 70 year old.


    /Truth

    The elderly population, especially those who are frail, should automatically be a DNR candidate.
  • Rowing_Ant

    Posts: 1504

    Dec 03, 2013 5:34 PM GMT
    I work as a fullish time DIrector of Music at a big Anglo-Catholic Parish (i.e. HIGH Anglican...smells, bells etc).

    And I'm a Quaker.

    It's a wonderful exercise in ....comparative religion. I don't believe any/most of it! But that doesn't stop me from being professional and enjoying making music and directing a choir.
  • metta

    Posts: 39143

    Dec 03, 2013 5:39 PM GMT
    Erik101 said
    dustin_K_tx said
    Erik101 saidI work in an intensive care unit and you want to talk about morality, work in healthcare. Too many times I've seen patients suffer from pain and families, instead of letting them die in peace, they prefer to keep them alive using artificial machines. So, these patients are staying alive because the family's moral conscience tells them that a higher being will be the ultimate decision maker on whether or not someone remains with the living.

    Despite the bullcrap I have to deal with at work, I would much rather stay in healthcare than my former career which was investment banking. Unlike the financial world, healthcare teaches you about morality and ethics. And also, I like being part of a team that saves lives.


    ^This, so this--nothing like breaking the ribs on a full code end stage 70 year old.


    /Truth

    The elderly population, especially those who are frail, should automatically be a DNR candidate.



    death-panel-cartoon.jpg
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Dec 03, 2013 5:53 PM GMT
    conservativejock saidYour subject relates to a broad range of business activity in a very fundamental way; that being real "value" for the amount paid. In your case, it was very obvious that the product was a 100% rip off. You did the right thing by walking away.

    I recall getting in trouble with a manager fresh out of college in my work in an R&D center. I had taken a company product and finished and completed it in R&D as an example of what could be done. Someone on the sales team had wandered through and picked it up taking the finished product to the corporate sales office. Oh did that cause problems. The manager was called on the carpet as to why his production product did not met the look, feel, and measure value of what came out of his own R&D center.

    One of the greatest tragedies in U.S. manufactruing has been in the auto industry. The "payroll," even to this day, has always been more important than the product.

    Surprisingly one of the big weaknesses in the U.S. at the moment relates to IT systems. Much of this work has been moved offshore. The product is sometimes the junk you described in your post. Imagine, software developed for a U.S. bank in India and the source code provided does not match the binary pushed to production. Oops!!

    As you said, it is a matter of morals. Some folks simply don't have a solid set or morals.


    I once sold cars at Douglas Ford/Toyota in 1983. They were forced to close from what I understand. They were unethical to say the least. One time i had a guy come back in to see an $8000 Toy Corolla SR5 wagon. We both knew how much it was, but that car sold. Asking how much another one was (none on the lot) I was supposed to lie and tell him it was $2000 more. I said "why would I do that?" "Just do it" he said....and I walked off, telling the customer he should really go somewhere else. Also spiffs and commissions would disappear. We were penciled to death on things. They screwed over their customers and their employees.

    On a higher level I'd have trouble buying a Hyumdai or Kia. The President of the company was imprisoned for corruption/bribery. Low and behold the government set him free. He was too valuable to the Korean economy, they said.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Dec 03, 2013 6:17 PM GMT
    For the most part I've managed to avoid the conflicts. Integrity often comes at a cost. But even when trying to do the right thing, you wind up in some hypocritical situations. That's part of life. If I didn't work, I could have driven less, used less energy, created one less car during rush hour so less frustration for other commuters, that kind of stuff. I did work out of the house when possible. I over-landscape my properties. I do try to make amends for my carbon footprint.

    secondstartotheright said
    Trolliosis said...And at the end of the day the chefs were forced to dump a full pot of soup or potatoes, or a full bucket of waffle fries.....


    I used to work at a restaurant too and this used to kill me - it wouldnt kill anyone to give this food away to homeless people

    Im really not religious but one thing I will say for the jewish faith...especially here in Israel is religiously one is required to do charity ... and a lot of places do that here ...at the bus station late at night I see homeless people getting left over pizza at the pizza place and stuff from the bakery ...these two laces close very late.. anyway I was impressed by that cause I hate throwing food away


    And this is why I've never been on another cruise. I've never seen this youtube'd scene, but by the obscene amount of food laid out, it was pretty obvious what would happen once we left the dining room (don't watch it trolli; this will just upset you)...

  • LilScottie41

    Posts: 14

    Dec 03, 2013 7:06 PM GMT
    I dropped a total of 30 grand on education, the first education I disliked the second one I loved... till I met a bunch of dentists on externship. Dental assistance is not for a do-good'er if you plan to settle for a corporate/chain.

    Dr's are taught to maintain a certain threshold between healing people and making their business thrive, and some take a real dirty route. You can find those hounds where they can work salary and commission comes in job security instead. Honestly, there's enough info out there these days that you should almost never need a doctor.

    I feel bad for bioagg/big pharma/medical employees who struggle with this.

    So now I work online and it's the best choice I ever made for myself.