Detroit - Old Packard plant sold for new $350,000,000 mega development

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Dec 03, 2013 3:56 PM GMT
    Hope it's true this time and also really hope that this buyer can keep some of the character of the Albert Kahn AIA designed plant.

    Ambitious .... hell yes, but that's what we are as Americans

    http://www.leftlanenews.com/new-packard-plant-owner-outlines-development-plant.html
  • rnch

    Posts: 11524

    Dec 03, 2013 5:07 PM GMT
    Here's Hoping icon_exclaim.gif





    icon_cool.gif
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    Dec 04, 2013 11:46 AM GMT
    Its an interesting idea, the complex is HUGEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE however, so redevelopment will take a ton of Cash and time. and I'm not sure if it will ever happen( Note IM not being a downer as I am Det's Biggest Cheerleader). Im just not sure on this one, Its been largely abandoned since the 50's so there's a ton of work to be done. Heres Hoping. icon_biggrin.gif
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    Dec 04, 2013 12:59 PM GMT
    lookinforcars101 saidIts an interesting idea, the complex is HUGEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE however, so redevelopment will take a ton of Cash and time. and I'm not sure if it will ever happen( Note IM not being a downer as I am Det's Biggest Cheerleader). Im just not sure on this one, Its been largely abandoned since the 50's so there's a ton of work to be done. Heres Hoping. icon_biggrin.gif


    Palazuelo does say that this will be 10-15 year project and he's planning on actually moving there in January 2014.

    Securing the 3.5 million square feet will be his biggest challenge so they're not tearing it down as fast as he's putting it up.
  • roadbikeRob

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    Dec 04, 2013 10:08 PM GMT
    I don't know about renovating and redeveloping a huge factory that has been abandoned and deteriorating since the 50s. About the only thing to do with the Packard plant is complete demolition and clearance. The land underneath is probably worth more than the deteriorated factory complex sitting on it. Than you have to worry about possible contamination at this site and designate it a brownfield needing remediation. The whole proposal sounds somewhat unrealistic.
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    Dec 04, 2013 11:07 PM GMT
    Aristoshark saidIt may or may not come to that, Rob. The architecture is important, by Albert Kahn, and the buyer wants it for specifically that reason. So I'm sure he'll attempt to preserve whatever parts of it are preservable. Seems likely that the insides will be completely ripped out; it's really the facades and details that he hopes to save, I imagine.


    Insides are already pretty well ripped out.

    But yes, as with so many old buildings in Detroit, it's the architecture that they're trying to preserve.

    I'm just curious to see how they can secure it so they aren't going one step forward and two back.
  • tazzari

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    Dec 05, 2013 12:48 AM GMT
    A wonderful idea and project - I hope they flourish. My family had Packards in the 30's, and my first car was an ancient 1935 V-12. -- If this was where I wanted to live, I'd be hoping for a condo somewhere!
  • Apparition

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    Dec 06, 2013 5:13 AM GMT
    freedomisntfree said
    Ambitious .... hell yes, but that's what we are as Americans



    maybe not as ambitious as you thought...

    A 58-year old Spaniard named Fernando Palazuelo...
    and he will move from Lima, the capital of Peru, to Detroit.



  • thadjock

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    Dec 06, 2013 6:12 AM GMT
    roadbikeRob said Than you have to worry about possible contamination at this site and designate it a brownfield needing remediation.


    this ^

    I'm sure any prospective buyer would have run environmental models before the purchase of a such a property, but an abandoned auto plant from the 50s would have to be the magnum opus of contamination nightmares.

    You'd think the massive amount of capital required for cleanup to reach compliance would kill any chances of adaptive reuse. I guess with Detroit's current life support status, maybe they'd just look the other way and let them dump it in the Detroit river.

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    Dec 10, 2013 6:15 PM GMT
    I think it's a laudable ambition to turn an old but interesting place into a mixed use of homes over retail shops. Sure, there are environmental problems to clean up in the soil, but that can be done.

    Here's an example in San Francisco. Condos are being built over restaurants and shops, in the old Ghirardelli Chocolate Factory. While the Packard project is much larger in scope, you can get an idea of what the condos look like from the photos. They look great. The exposed original brick walls and large windows give a loft like, industrial look that is very attractive.


    http://www.fairmontheritageplace.com/heritageplace/ghirardelli
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    Dec 10, 2013 7:32 PM GMT
    Aristoshark said
    Jockbod48 saidI think it's a laudable ambition to turn an old but interesting place into a mixed use of homes over retail shops. Sure, there are environmental problems to clean up in the soil, but that can be done.

    Here's an example in San Francisco. Condos are being built over restaurants and shops, in the old Ghirardelli Chocolate Factory. While the Packard project is much larger in scope, you can get an idea of what the condos look like from the photos. They look great. The exposed original brick walls and large windows give a loft like, industrial look that is very attractive.


    http://www.fairmontheritageplace.com/heritageplace/ghirardelli

    Beautiful, but I'm guessing $1 million+.


    I worked almost next door or should say our regional offices were on Van Ness. I was up there pert near once a month.

    I would say $1,500 to $1,800 sq ft.
  • thadjock

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    Dec 10, 2013 10:39 PM GMT
    Jockbod48 saidI think it's a laudable ambition to turn an old but interesting place into a mixed use of homes over retail shops. Sure, there are environmental problems to clean up in the soil, but that can be done.

    Here's an example in San Francisco. Condos are being built over restaurants and shops, in the old Ghirardelli Chocolate Factory. While the Packard project is much larger in scope, you can get an idea of what the condos look like from the photos. They look great. The exposed original brick walls and large windows give a loft like, industrial look that is very attractive.


    http://www.fairmontheritageplace.com/heritageplace/ghirardelli


    to compare a chocolate factory conversion in SF and this project is ludicrous. Detroit is NOT SF, it's a radically different (non-existent) housing market, and has been mired in decades of scorched earth economic landscape. while SF is one of the richest per-capita cities in the WORLD.

    Also, the soil would be the least of the problems as far as clean up goes. an auto plant is going to have walls floors and ceilings covered and saturated with heavy metals, zinc , cadmium, lead, asbestos, formaldehyde, rubber, and every petro-chemical under the sun, and who knows, maybe residual radioactivity.
  • roadbikeRob

    Posts: 14295

    Dec 10, 2013 11:05 PM GMT
    Here in Buffalo, we will have our tallest building almost 90% vacant at the end of this month. The 40 story office tower was designed in a brutalist style and was developed in 1969-1974. It was the corporate headquarters for the now defunct Marine Midland Bank NA which later was absorbed by HSBC Bank USA. Detroit has a massive, spread out factory complex to redevelop which will be very costly. Buffalo will have a tall order of a redevelopment opportunity after the end of this year.
  • roadbikeRob

    Posts: 14295

    Dec 10, 2013 11:26 PM GMT
    Aristoshark said
    roadbikeRob saidHere in Buffalo, we will have our tallest building almost 90% vacant at the end of this month. The 40 story office tower was designed in a brutalist style and was developed in 1969-1974. It was the corporate headquarters for the now defunct Marine Midland Bank NA which later was absorbed by HSBC Bank USA. Detroit has a massive, spread out factory complex to redevelop which will be very costly. Buffalo will have a tall order of a redevelopment opportunity after the end of this year.

    I forgot that Marine Midland used to headquartered there. That was my bank all the years I lived in New York.
    It was sad when they were taken over by HSBC because that cost Buffalo a lot of good paying corporate jobs. I also did business with the old Marine Midland in my 20s. How things have changed and not always for the better.
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    Dec 11, 2013 5:51 AM GMT
    thadjock said
    Jockbod48 saidI think it's a laudable ambition to turn an old but interesting place into a mixed use of homes over retail shops. Sure, there are environmental problems to clean up in the soil, but that can be done.

    Here's an example in San Francisco. Condos are being built over restaurants and shops, in the old Ghirardelli Chocolate Factory. While the Packard project is much larger in scope, you can get an idea of what the condos look like from the photos. They look great. The exposed original brick walls and large windows give a loft like, industrial look that is very attractive.


    http://www.fairmontheritageplace.com/heritageplace/ghirardelli


    to compare a chocolate factory conversion in SF and this project is ludicrous. Detroit is NOT SF, it's a radically different (non-existent) housing market, and has been mired in decades of scorched earth economic landscape. while SF is one of the richest per-capita cities in the WORLD.

    Also, the soil would be the least of the problems as far as clean up goes. an auto plant is going to have walls floors and ceilings covered and saturated with heavy metals, zinc , cadmium, lead, asbestos, formaldehyde, rubber, and every petro-chemical under the sun, and who knows, maybe residual radioactivity.


    Having been involved in quite a number investment properties just like both of these projects, I can assure you that there is nothing "ludicrous" about comparing the two. I already mentioned the differences in scope, and it is already known that one project is in an affluent city, while the other is in Detroit. Still - we're talking about the good benefits that each project brings to the people of each city. We're also talking about clean up - which is a factor in each case. And no - "the soil would be the least of the problems" is incorrect. How many projects have you participated in, may I ask? Soil clean up is an integral problem in redevelopment projects.

    You've missed the point of the whole article about the Detroit project, I believe. Both projects, while not exactly alike (who said they were?) are worthwhile and positive, and very good for the city. There are almost countless similar projects going on in cities all around the country, and while no two are alike, most are beneficial and with good, positive outcomes. Far better to create something useful out of old abandoned buildings than to just let them continue being blighted areas.

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 03, 2014 3:57 PM GMT
    Deed transfered

    http://www.freep.com/article/20140102/BUSINESS06/301020075/Packard-Plant-deed-transfer-new-owner-Fernando-Palazuelo

    I very much hope he can pull this off. If he does it make for a huge bunch of big mo to moving Detroit forward.

    I'll see this in two week. I hope it's the last architectural ruins tour I do.
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    Jan 03, 2014 4:02 PM GMT
    http://www.freep.com/article/20140102/BUSINESS06/301020015/Gilbert-Bedrock-Detroit-architecture?odyssey=obinsite
  • roadbikeRob

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    Jan 03, 2014 5:30 PM GMT
    Lets hope that this deed transfer marks a positive new beginning for the once prosperous, still beautiful city of Detroit. Now on to the Michigan Central Station and see if that can be bought and revitalized. Than after that lets head 60 miles down I-75 to Toledo and find a new use for the shuttered 30 story Fiberglass office tower.
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    Jan 03, 2014 5:35 PM GMT
    I wonder if there's any Packard parts or old machinery lying around.
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    Jan 03, 2014 5:41 PM GMT
    I'm going to try to get in there the Friday before the NAIAS opening day to do a little 'ruins' photography so I have some material for a CS6 CC class I'm going to take as a refresher.

    Hopefully he doesn't have it boarded up yet.
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    Jan 03, 2014 5:52 PM GMT
    For anyone else going to NAIAS who wants to see the packard plant before things change .... just take Gratiot Blvd NE to bellevue N or take the NB Chrysler out of downtown up the the Edsel Ford and NE until you see the Hamtramck GM plant on the left and the packard plant will be on your right (south).

    Get off Mt Elliot exit, make a right and head south and them turn left (east) on E Grand. You'll know it when you're there.
  • roadbikeRob

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    Jan 03, 2014 6:14 PM GMT
    freedomisntfree saidI'm going to try to get in there the Friday before the NAIAS opening day to do a little 'ruins' photography so I have some material for a CS6 CC class I'm going to take as a refresher.

    Hopefully he doesn't have it boarded up yet.
    Put some of those urban ruins photos here on rjicon_biggrin.gif
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    Jan 03, 2014 9:19 PM GMT
    Yeah it would be cool to see them.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 03, 2014 9:33 PM GMT
    roadbikeRob said
    freedomisntfree saidI'm going to try to get in there the Friday before the NAIAS opening day to do a little 'ruins' photography so I have some material for a CS6 CC class I'm going to take as a refresher.

    Hopefully he doesn't have it boarded up yet.
    Put some of those urban ruins photos here on rjicon_biggrin.gif

    There are whole websites full of those pictures if you want to have a gander at 'em, Rob.
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    Jan 03, 2014 10:10 PM GMT
    Blakes7 saidYeah it would be cool to see them.


    Those kind of pics are great for a photoshop fodder because they can look so brooding and evil .... more so with some help. I have the entire adobe creative suite and I can't remember it if I don't use it all that often so I need a refresher.