World’s Smallest Pacemaker Can Be Implanted without Surgery

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    Dec 18, 2013 2:33 PM GMT
    This is amazing... (though expect that innovations like this will be increasingly developed outside the US because the recent Affordable Care Act taxes medical equipment and device makers).

    http://www.technologyreview.com/news/522306/worlds-smallest-pacemaker-can-be-implanted-without-surgery/

    New cardiac devices are small enough to be delivered through blood vessels into the heart.

    Pacemaker surgery typically requires a doctor to make an incision above a patient’s heart, dig a cavity into which he can implant the heartbeat-regulating device, and then connect the pulse generator to wires delivered through a vein near the collarbone. Such surgery could soon be completely unnecessary. Instead, doctors could employ miniaturized wireless pacemakers that can be delivered into the heart through a major vein in the thigh.
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    Dec 18, 2013 4:25 PM GMT
    riddler78 saidThis is amazing... (though expect that innovations like this will be increasingly developed outside the US because the recent Affordable Care Act taxes medical equipment and device makers).

    My husband may soon need a pacemaker. But perhaps before this is approved in the US, and enough cardiologists are trained to install it.

    BTW, what makes you qualified to comment on what the ACA will or will not fund? Your Canadian perspective is preternatural, far superior to what we mere US citizens have. How did you become so expert on a government program from another government, that doesn't even affect or concern you? icon_rolleyes.gif
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    Dec 18, 2013 4:32 PM GMT
    ART_DECO said
    riddler78 saidThis is amazing... (though expect that innovations like this will be increasingly developed outside the US because the recent Affordable Care Act taxes medical equipment and device makers).

    My husband may soon need a pacemaker. But perhaps before this is approved in the US, and enough cardiologists are trained to install it.

    BTW, what makes you qualified to comment on what the ACA will or will not fund? Your Canadian perspective is preternatural, far superior to what we mere US citizens have. How did you become so expert on a government program from another government, that doesn't even affect or concern you? icon_rolleyes.gif


    I didn't say that ACA won't fund it. I pointed out that innovations like this will be developed increasingly outside the US because ACA taxes innovations like this. It's fact. Look it up before you make a fool of yourself.

    Oops, oh too late.
  • Destinharbor

    Posts: 4433

    Dec 18, 2013 5:04 PM GMT
    Are they not taxed in other countries? Or is it because the government is picking up the tab. What's the point of both paying and collecting the same tax money. The reason ART DECO jumped on you is because like so many others who follow politics, you instinctively jumped on the mean old Obamacare for destroying the world. I don't believe you've done your homework and yet you blather FOX talking points as though you know what you're talking about-- and from the comfort of guaranteed, lifetime healthcare of Canada which has a lower percentage of its GDP eaten up by medical than the US and with a better outcome.
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    Dec 18, 2013 5:35 PM GMT
    Destinharbor saidAre they not taxed in other countries? Or is it because the government is picking up the tab. What's the point of both paying and collecting the same tax money. The reason ART DECO jumped on you is because like so many others who follow politics, you instinctively jumped on the mean old Obamacare for destroying the world. I don't believe you've done your homework and yet you blather FOX talking points as though you know what you're talking about-- and from the comfort of guaranteed, lifetime healthcare of Canada which has a lower percentage of its GDP eaten up by medical than the US and with a better outcome.


    Again, have you bothered to do your homework? No it's not because the government picked up the tab - the medical device and equipment industry in the US is one of the major exports for the US. This industry has also been laying off people in droves in the last year. In what appears to be your feeble reasoning this must be coincidence? Please do your own research.

    I don't think that Obamacare is destroying the world - and you'd best look into your own talking points on this issue for as supposedly ignorant I am of the law, you seem to be considerably more so. If you actually think that Obamacare will result in something closer to what Canada has, I have some swamp land to sell you.

    In the meantime, innovations like this will be done and made abroad because of the disincentives now to produce them in the US.
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    Dec 18, 2013 5:38 PM GMT
    Because some people seem entirely incapable of using google even when it comes to their own revered sources of info:
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/caroll-h-neubauer/a-tax-that-could-hurt-all_b_330170.html

    from a "right wing" site detailing some of the layoffs happening that must of course be coincidental:
    http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/obamacare-medical-device-tax-causes-one-company-lay-over-1000-people_753721.html

    More here:
    http://www.fiercemedicaldevices.com/special-reports/2013s-biggest-job-cutters-medical-devices-and-diagnostics-so-far-0
    http://www.fiercemedicaldevices.com/tags/medical-device-layoffs
  • Destinharbor

    Posts: 4433

    Dec 18, 2013 8:59 PM GMT
    I don't doubt there will be wailing and beating of chests as Obama tries to whittle down the 70% premium we are paying for below average healthcare in this country. The first article you cite is written by the owner of a device company and is President of the trade association, the second is a right-wing political publication and the third cites layoffs in the industry not because of this tax (which hast taken effect) but because of redeployment of capital to new devices. Just as the insurance industry is doing, every evil thing they want to do they are blaming Obamacare. Don't be so naive. With every other industrialized country covering all its citizens for barely more than half of what we pay, and getting better results, I doubt there will be a mass exodus.

    Did you read anything but the headlines of the articles you cite?
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    Dec 18, 2013 9:25 PM GMT
    Destinharbor saidI don't doubt there will be wailing and beating of chests as Obama tries to whittle down the 70% premium we are paying for below average healthcare in this country. The first article you cite is written by the owner of a device company and is President of the trade association, the second is a right-wing political publication and the third cites layoffs in the industry not because of this tax (which hast taken effect) but because of redeployment of capital to new devices. Just as the insurance industry is doing, every evil thing they want to do they are blaming Obamacare. Don't be so naive. With every other industrialized country covering all its citizens for barely more than half of what we pay, and getting better results, I doubt there will be a mass exodus.

    Did you read anything but the headlines of the articles you cite?


    Yep, simply must be coincidental. The first article was written by the owner of a device company and the president of a trade association. Your point being? Is he wrong? Do you fault his logic or ideas? No, you fault who he is.

    Do you bother actually reading articles that you don't agree with or consider alternative possibilities? Again, if you believe that Obamacare gets you closer to what Canada has or what other industrialized countries have, I'm really not the naive one here.

    Incidentally, I used to be part of a venture group and the head of the healthcare group at a large Canadian bank told me a few months ago that he was seeing clients looking to reorganize into smaller units but also move production abroad especially if they made medical devices. Of course, that was his anecdotal observation, but again, it's fairly clear that I'm not the naive one here.
  • Destinharbor

    Posts: 4433

    Dec 18, 2013 9:49 PM GMT
    riddler78 said
    Destinharbor saidI don't doubt there will be wailing and beating of chests as Obama tries to whittle down the 70% premium we are paying for below average healthcare in this country. The first article you cite is written by the owner of a device company and is President of the trade association, the second is a right-wing political publication and the third cites layoffs in the industry not because of this tax (which hast taken effect) but because of redeployment of capital to new devices. Just as the insurance industry is doing, every evil thing they want to do they are blaming Obamacare. Don't be so naive. With every other industrialized country covering all its citizens for barely more than half of what we pay, and getting better results, I doubt there will be a mass exodus.

    Did you read anything but the headlines of the articles you cite?


    Yep, simply must be coincidental. The first article was written by the owner of a device company and the president of a trade association. Your point being? Is he wrong? Do you fault his logic or ideas? No, you fault who he is.

    Do you bother actually reading articles that you don't agree with or consider alternative possibilities? Again, if you believe that Obamacare gets you closer to what Canada has or what other industrialized countries have, I'm really not the naive one here.

    Incidentally, I used to be part of a venture group and the head of the healthcare group at a large Canadian bank told me a few months ago that he was seeing clients looking to reorganize into smaller units but also move production abroad especially if they made medical devices. Of course, that was his anecdotal observation, but again, it's fairly clear that I'm not the naive one here.

    I see, your boss told you something so you think you understand because he told you. Your argument is that we should continue to not tax device makers because if we treat them like everyone else, they're going to take their jobs and move. This is typical Republican thinking. I'm sick of tax preferences for rich companies. I guarantee they won't move to Canada because the tax rate there is much higher than effective American rates. And the same is true in Europe (if you include VAT) with most every country but Ireland and Spain which followed your line of thinking into ruin. Obamacare will need a lot of revisions over many years to get all the pieces right but it is a start. What we have now certainly isn't working.
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    Dec 18, 2013 9:57 PM GMT
    Destinharbor said
    riddler78 said
    Destinharbor saidI don't doubt there will be wailing and beating of chests as Obama tries to whittle down the 70% premium we are paying for below average healthcare in this country. The first article you cite is written by the owner of a device company and is President of the trade association, the second is a right-wing political publication and the third cites layoffs in the industry not because of this tax (which hast taken effect) but because of redeployment of capital to new devices. Just as the insurance industry is doing, every evil thing they want to do they are blaming Obamacare. Don't be so naive. With every other industrialized country covering all its citizens for barely more than half of what we pay, and getting better results, I doubt there will be a mass exodus.

    Did you read anything but the headlines of the articles you cite?


    Yep, simply must be coincidental. The first article was written by the owner of a device company and the president of a trade association. Your point being? Is he wrong? Do you fault his logic or ideas? No, you fault who he is.

    Do you bother actually reading articles that you don't agree with or consider alternative possibilities? Again, if you believe that Obamacare gets you closer to what Canada has or what other industrialized countries have, I'm really not the naive one here.

    Incidentally, I used to be part of a venture group and the head of the healthcare group at a large Canadian bank told me a few months ago that he was seeing clients looking to reorganize into smaller units but also move production abroad especially if they made medical devices. Of course, that was his anecdotal observation, but again, it's fairly clear that I'm not the naive one here.

    I see, your boss told you something so you think you understand because he told you. Your argument is that we should continue to not tax device makers because if we treat them like everyone else, they're going to take their jobs and move. This is typical Republican thinking. I'm sick of tax preferences for rich companies. I guarantee they won't move to Canada because the tax rate there is much higher than effective American rates. And the same is true in Europe (if you include VAT) with most every country but Ireland and Spain which followed your line of thinking into ruin. Obamacare will need a lot of revisions over many years to get all the pieces right but it is a start. What we have now certainly isn't working.


    My boss? No. Please read my response again. Canada is a beneficiary in this race according to him. Typical liberal naivete to think that policy decisions don't have unintended consequences. I mean I'm speaking of specifics - you're speaking of broad generalities and what undoubtedly you now see as coincidences.

    You seem to think that the laws of supply and demand can so easily repealed. Um and no - Canada actually has lower taxes in many provinces now. You might want to update your data. It's remarkable how ignorant you are on this and many of these issues - though that was quite clear with your unsupported belief that Obamacare will result in a system more like Canada's. As for sales taxes? I think they're better than income taxes - do you really just read talking points from liberal sites?

    Do, please educate yourself.
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    Dec 18, 2013 10:14 PM GMT
    riddler78 said
    Do, please educate yourself.

    Educated by whom? Someone like yourself who doesn't even live in the US? Who has no firsthand knowledge of any of these issues? Nor any other credentials to support them?

    Destinharbor is educated quite well enough, as he eloquently proves, with valid citations and examples. Something your sources sadly lack. Not to mention that he actually lives in the US.

    You really need to ask your handlers for better references and proofs. But since your assertions are phony to begin with, I suppose that's a meaningless request.
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    Dec 18, 2013 10:24 PM GMT
    ART_DECO said
    riddler78 said
    Do, please educate yourself.

    Educated by whom? Someone like yourself who doesn't even live in the US? Who has no firsthand knowledge of any of these issues? Nor any other credentials to support them?

    Destinharbor is educated quite well enough, as he eloquently proves, with valid citations and examples. Something your sources sadly lack. Not to mention that he actually lives in the US.

    You really need to ask your handlers for better references and proofs. But since your assertions are phony to begin with, I suppose that's a meaningless request.


    Citations? Where? Do you even know what citations are? I mean, let's just ignore the several instances of where he makes claims that are demonstrably and factually untrue. Back to the topic at hand - did you notice that the researchers are American, the medical device manufacturer is American but guess where they decided to do their research?

    If only your wishful thinking and facts were interchangeable. Thank you for being real and demonstrating what a stupid petty old man you really are. icon_cool.gif
  • Destinharbor

    Posts: 4433

    Dec 18, 2013 10:39 PM GMT
    Give up, ART DECO. He thinks he knows something and is trying to show off. As far as I can tell, he's offered nothing to support his view but to say someone else said something and rather than think it through wants to argue. I did mistake the reference to his boss. It was just a head of a sales force in a bank suggesting venture groups try to cannibalize the medical device industry while there is uncertainty. Private Equity usually gets it wrong but they get out before anyone realizes they've just bankrupted the company. Mitt?
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    Dec 18, 2013 10:49 PM GMT
    Destinharbor saidGive up, ART DECO. He thinks he knows something and is trying to show off. As far as I can tell, he's offered nothing to support his view but to say someone else said something and rather than think it through wants to argue. I did mistake the reference to his boss. It was just a head of a sales force in a bank suggesting venture groups try to cannibalize the medical device industry while there is uncertainty. Private Equity usually gets it wrong but they get out before anyone realizes they've just bankrupted the company. Mitt?


    You've shown nothing which is kind of ironic - but appropriately and blatantly deceptive on your part. Let's go through the list just for kicks:

    - You've claimed that taxes are higher in Canada. Wrong.
    - You didn't even realize there was a medical device tax and yet you claim that Obamacare will result in something closer to what other countries have.
    - You do nothing to refute the points that there have been considerable layoffs in the medical device industry or the claims made in the Huffington post by a medical device manufacturer who you dismissively reject as being biased (when you are so obviously unable to consider the fact there are fundamental issues with Obamacare)
    - You point out that other countries get better bang for their buck when it comes to healthcare - which I haven't denied - and I think is sometimes true

    You seem to think that just because the last point is possibly true, it means that Obamacare must be implemented and it therefore will result in better healthcare in the US.

    Are you really that dumb? But oh wait, at least ArtDeco confuses that for eloquence.

    Then again, best of luck though with the medical device industry in the US. Like I've pointed out you'll find more and more of the research and manufacturing will be done elsewhere. Places that are more conducive with lower taxes... like Canada. Facts like these seem a bit above your pay grade.

    Thank you for your ignorance however icon_wink.gif
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    Dec 19, 2013 12:21 AM GMT
    This a cool example of safer surgery by being less evasive. Yay!
  • Destinharbor

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    Dec 19, 2013 12:42 AM GMT
    riddler78 said
    Destinharbor saidGive up, ART DECO. He thinks he knows something and is trying to show off. As far as I can tell, he's offered nothing to support his view but to say someone else said something and rather than think it through wants to argue. I did mistake the reference to his boss. It was just a head of a sales force in a bank suggesting venture groups try to cannibalize the medical device industry while there is uncertainty. Private Equity usually gets it wrong but they get out before anyone realizes they've just bankrupted the company. Mitt?


    You've shown nothing which is kind of ironic - but appropriately and blatantly deceptive on your part. Let's go through the list just for kicks:

    - You've claimed that taxes are higher in Canada. Wrong.
    - You didn't even realize there was a medical device tax and yet you claim that Obamacare will result in something closer to what other countries have.
    - You do nothing to refute the points that there have been considerable layoffs in the medical device industry or the claims made in the Huffington post by a medical device manufacturer who you dismissively reject as being biased (when you are so obviously unable to consider the fact there are fundamental issues with Obamacare)
    - You point out that other countries get better bang for their buck when it comes to healthcare - which I haven't denied - and I think is sometimes true

    You seem to think that just because the last point is possibly true, it means that Obamacare must be implemented and it therefore will result in better healthcare in the US.

    Are you really that dumb? But oh wait, at least ArtDeco confuses that for eloquence.

    Then again, best of luck though with the medical device industry in the US. Like I've pointed out you'll find more and more of the research and manufacturing will be done elsewhere. Places that are more conducive with lower taxes... like Canada. Facts like these seem a bit above your pay grade.

    Thank you for your ignorance however icon_wink.gif

    Lol. I knew he'd give himself away. Go back to your FOX bubble. Why you want to whine about our healthcare system I don't know but so far you've offered nothing. Except that vested interests hate losing their cash cow.
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    Dec 19, 2013 2:44 AM GMT
    Destinharbor said
    riddler78 said
    Destinharbor saidGive up, ART DECO. He thinks he knows something and is trying to show off. As far as I can tell, he's offered nothing to support his view but to say someone else said something and rather than think it through wants to argue. I did mistake the reference to his boss. It was just a head of a sales force in a bank suggesting venture groups try to cannibalize the medical device industry while there is uncertainty. Private Equity usually gets it wrong but they get out before anyone realizes they've just bankrupted the company. Mitt?


    You've shown nothing which is kind of ironic - but appropriately and blatantly deceptive on your part. Let's go through the list just for kicks:

    - You've claimed that taxes are higher in Canada. Wrong.
    - You didn't even realize there was a medical device tax and yet you claim that Obamacare will result in something closer to what other countries have.
    - You do nothing to refute the points that there have been considerable layoffs in the medical device industry or the claims made in the Huffington post by a medical device manufacturer who you dismissively reject as being biased (when you are so obviously unable to consider the fact there are fundamental issues with Obamacare)
    - You point out that other countries get better bang for their buck when it comes to healthcare - which I haven't denied - and I think is sometimes true

    You seem to think that just because the last point is possibly true, it means that Obamacare must be implemented and it therefore will result in better healthcare in the US.

    Are you really that dumb? But oh wait, at least ArtDeco confuses that for eloquence.

    Then again, best of luck though with the medical device industry in the US. Like I've pointed out you'll find more and more of the research and manufacturing will be done elsewhere. Places that are more conducive with lower taxes... like Canada. Facts like these seem a bit above your pay grade.

    Thank you for your ignorance however icon_wink.gif

    Lol. I knew he'd give himself away. Go back to your FOX bubble. Why you want to whine about our healthcare system I don't know but so far you've offered nothing. Except that vested interests hate losing their cash cow.


    Thank you for proving my point.
  • Destinharbor

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    Dec 19, 2013 3:43 AM GMT
    This is getting dumb.
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    Dec 19, 2013 12:42 PM GMT
    Destinharbor saidThis is getting dumb.


    This or you? You seem to have this inability to differentiate your own opinions from fact with any disagreement you label as being due to partisan bias when that appears to only be true for you.
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    Dec 20, 2013 7:56 PM GMT
    http://www.kare11.com/story/news/2013/12/10/medtronic-testing-worlds-smallest-pacemaker/3981451/

    He anticipates using the device in trials starting early next year.

    If the device works well in trials, Mackin said it could be available in Europe in as soon as one year, and in the United States in about three years.
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    Dec 20, 2013 8:02 PM GMT
    riddler78 saidThis is amazing... (though expect that innovations like this will be increasingly developed outside the US because the recent Affordable Care Act taxes medical equipment and device makers).

    http://www.technologyreview.com/news/522306/worlds-smallest-pacemaker-can-be-implanted-without-surgery/

    New cardiac devices are small enough to be delivered through blood vessels into the heart.

    Pacemaker surgery typically requires a doctor to make an incision above a patient’s heart, dig a cavity into which he can implant the heartbeat-regulating device, and then connect the pulse generator to wires delivered through a vein near the collarbone. Such surgery could soon be completely unnecessary. Instead, doctors could employ miniaturized wireless pacemakers that can be delivered into the heart through a major vein in the thigh.


    so what, people still buy their shitty made in China iPhones and MacBooks
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    Dec 20, 2013 8:45 PM GMT
    RespectablyBuffed saidThis a cool example of safer surgery by being less evasive. Yay!


    It is! Unfortunately this news is just a smokescreen for the Riddler agenda. icon_lol.gif
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    Dec 22, 2013 5:34 AM GMT
    somersault said
    riddler78 saidThis is amazing... (though expect that innovations like this will be increasingly developed outside the US because the recent Affordable Care Act taxes medical equipment and device makers).

    http://www.technologyreview.com/news/522306/worlds-smallest-pacemaker-can-be-implanted-without-surgery/

    New cardiac devices are small enough to be delivered through blood vessels into the heart.

    Pacemaker surgery typically requires a doctor to make an incision above a patient’s heart, dig a cavity into which he can implant the heartbeat-regulating device, and then connect the pulse generator to wires delivered through a vein near the collarbone. Such surgery could soon be completely unnecessary. Instead, doctors could employ miniaturized wireless pacemakers that can be delivered into the heart through a major vein in the thigh.


    so what, people still buy their shitty made in China iPhones and MacBooks


    There's a difference I think. Whereas China is cheaper for low skilled labor, a lot of the medical device manufacturing requires more tech, and better educated workers. Losing jobs solely because of taxes on innovation seems a bit insane.
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    Dec 22, 2013 5:36 AM GMT
    meninlove said
    RespectablyBuffed saidThis a cool example of safer surgery by being less evasive. Yay!


    It is! Unfortunately this news is just a smokescreen for the Riddler agenda. icon_lol.gif


    Really? Again, where was the research done? Where is it going to be rolled out? Yes, this is all part of a vast conspiracy to point out the obvious. You truly are an idiot. icon_rolleyes.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Dec 22, 2013 6:19 AM GMT
    RespectablyBuffed saidThis a cool example of safer surgery by being less evasive. Yay!


    I think you meant to say invasive and not evasive.