"Owning your shit"

  • MikeW

    Posts: 6061

    Dec 24, 2013 6:34 PM GMT
    "Owning your shit means taking responsibility for your actions, acknowledging their impact on others, and moving forward without trying to cover your ass." (quoted from this blog.)


    Ages ago I started a thread saying that some RJers needed to learn to own their shit. It didn't go down very well, as such things seldom do, especially from someone who was, at the time, a newcomer to this forum.

    I'm floating it again because I think it is a very important concept that, if it were understood, could save all of us a lot of grief both here in this forum and in real life.

    None of us are perfect. We all have bullshit of one sort and another. And sometimes this bullshit gets us in trouble, either with a fellow RJer or with someone in our real lives.

    Typically when we get "called" on our BS, the knee-jerk reaction is first to deny that our BS is BS and then adopt a defensive (sometimes aggressively defensive) posture, usually attempting to shame, redicule or otherwise nullify the opinion of who ever called us on it. This can very quickly devolve into a name-calling argument that goes nowhere other than to get everyone involved hot and bothered.

    My advice? As a general rule, don't personalize an argument or disagreement with someone. IOW, lets say you disagree with something someone says. Fine, no problem, disagree with their opinion. However, as soon as you personalize it by in some way insulting the integrity of the PERSON who holds a different opinion from your own, you've opened the door to a forum food fight. Attacking the person rather than their opinion is BS, is your shit and really says way more about you than the person you've attacked.

    My further advice, if someone attacks you with their BS first, just move on. You can say something back if you want but be careful. It is very easy to get "hooked in" to defending yourself. I've seen many thread go completely off-topic as two or three guys start hooking into one another on a personal level, going off on an 'attack-counterattack' binge, that completely derails the OP. In general it makes for a crappy forum experience.

    None of this is necessary. All of us can "reflect" and "own our shit," take responsibility for our actions and just simply refuse to be baited into a personalized argument with someone… especially on a forum.

    This is supposed to be a HEALTH focused forum. Emotional stress is not healthy. If you ever feel yourself getting emotionally upset by things said here, for heaven's sake, just get up from your computer and go take a walk. When you come back, try to look at your shit and everyone else's a bit more objectively.

    /rant
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    Dec 24, 2013 6:48 PM GMT
    I own it...
























    ...until I take a dump. icon_lol.gif
  • MikeW

    Posts: 6061

    Dec 24, 2013 6:55 PM GMT
    GAMRican saidI own it...

    ...until I take a dump. icon_lol.gif

    A wise man once said, "Shit stinks everywhere, and we take ours with us wherever we go."
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    Dec 24, 2013 6:57 PM GMT
    MikeW said
    GAMRican saidI own it...

    ...until I take a dump. icon_lol.gif

    A wise man once said, "Shit stinks everywhere, and we take ours with us wherever we go."


    This is why...


    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/2148274
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Dec 24, 2013 6:58 PM GMT
    what a shitty thread
  • roadbikeRob

    Posts: 14348

    Dec 24, 2013 6:59 PM GMT
    This thread really stinks.
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    Dec 24, 2013 7:11 PM GMT
    charlitos saidwhat a shitty thread

  • MikeW

    Posts: 6061

    Dec 24, 2013 8:19 PM GMT
    itsfallinganditcantgetup saidi can take disrespect BUT only to a certain point...

    I hear ya and hopefully you understand I'm not suggesting people "take" disrespect. Just put it in perspective. I mean, how important is it and even if you do react to something someone says in the forum, is it really going to make any difference? Or is it just going to be a loose-loose argument? I have a short fuse, too. I haven't gotten into a physical altercation since I was a teenager. The older I've gotten, the more it takes to really piss me off. It can be done but the other person really has to work at it. Most of the time it is just clear to me that getting all stressed out about someone's BS just isn't worth my time or energy.

    Other people have commented on this in other threads but I see a lot of disrespect dished out in this forum and it is one of the things I just don't 'get'. Now some of it is just kidding around and meant to be fun but some of it isn't. I've seen new guys who weren't trolls attacked and made to feel so uncomfortable they left the forum. I don't get the point of that. How is that healthy for anyone? We are a minority and most all of us are dealing with a lot of stress and issues where we need support. If we can't get that from other's of our tribe, where the hell are we supposed to get it?

    Of course this disrespect and downright nastiness on occasion isn't all that goes on here. As well as a lot of fun there are some heart-felt and supportive threads. So, its a mixed bag. I just don't 'get' guys who think it is funny to fuck with other people.
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    Dec 24, 2013 8:40 PM GMT
    There's a difference between confronting and insulting someone . There are a few people here who will never give up the latter.
  • MikeW

    Posts: 6061

    Dec 24, 2013 8:50 PM GMT
    JohnSpotter saidThere's a difference between confronting and insulting someone . There are a few people here who will never give up the latter.

    Seems to be so. The question is, at what point does it become Harassment, as prohibited by the TOU:

    Harassment. The use of the Website to threaten, engage in or advocate the harassment of any individual or group (verbally or electronically) is illegal and prohibited.
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    Dec 24, 2013 9:02 PM GMT
    I'm one of those who will own it. When I make a mistake, I acknowledge, learn and apologize for it. As for being attacked and letting it get to me, well I must say that it rarely happens. The way I see it, is that the majority of the guys on the forums are strangers whom I have no intentions in meeting. There's only a hand full of guys whom I'm looking forward to meeting in person and developing friendships outside of the Internet. But as for the rest, they can say what they want. It just doesn't bother me whatsoever!
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    Dec 24, 2013 9:07 PM GMT
    No one wants to be The Bad Guy. It's easier for people to leave their crap on the floor, stay ignorant when their Bad gets pointed out, and call themselves Good.
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    Dec 24, 2013 9:11 PM GMT
    MikeW said
    JohnSpotter saidThere's a difference between confronting and insulting someone . There are a few people here who will never give up the latter.

    Seems to be so. The question is, at what point does it become Harassment, as prohibited by the TOU:
    Harassment. The use of the Website to threaten, engage in or advocate the harassment of any individual or group (verbally or electronically) is illegal and prohibited.

    I think we should all be smart enough as adults not to use certain words.
    If I get really confronting, I'll write, "There is no logic behind what you just said" even while the other person is writing "You are just plain stupid for saying that."
    Also, writing "seek medical help" just because somebody has a favorite TV show that you don't like is really pretty insulting not to mention juvenile.
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    Dec 24, 2013 9:14 PM GMT
    Erik101 saidI'm one of those who will own it. When I make a mistake, I acknowledge, learn and apologize for it. As for being attacked and letting it get to me, well I must say that it rarely happens. The way I see it, is that the majority of the guys on the forums are strangers whom I have no intentions in meeting. There's only a hand full of guys whom I'm looking forward to meeting in person and developing friendships outside of the Internet. But as for the rest, they can say what they want. It just doesn't bother me whatsoever!

    Good for you.
    I make apologies all the time.
    It's not hard to swallow your pride once in a while since any online format is prone to miscommunication.
  • MikeW

    Posts: 6061

    Dec 24, 2013 9:15 PM GMT
    Neight saidNo one wants to be The Bad Guy. It's easier for people to leave their crap on the floor, stay ignorant when their Bad gets pointed out, and call themselves Good.

    Yeah. The last thing most any of us wants to hear is, "You're wrong!" Especially if it is true.
  • MikeW

    Posts: 6061

    Dec 24, 2013 9:19 PM GMT
    JohnSpotter said
    Erik101 saidI'm one of those who will own it. When I make a mistake, I acknowledge, learn and apologize for it. As for being attacked and letting it get to me, well I must say that it rarely happens. The way I see it, is that the majority of the guys on the forums are strangers whom I have no intentions in meeting. There's only a hand full of guys whom I'm looking forward to meeting in person and developing friendships outside of the Internet. But as for the rest, they can say what they want. It just doesn't bother me whatsoever!

    Good for you.
    I make apologies all the time.
    It's not hard to swallow your pride once in a while since any online format is prone to miscommunication.

    Yeah, that's part of the problem, too. Sometimes we *project* what we think the other poster is thinking/feeling, almost despite whatever they've said. This can lead to all kinds of miscommunications if we are unwilling or incapable of seeing how we misread the post.
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    Dec 24, 2013 9:29 PM GMT
    JohnSpotter said
    MikeW said
    JohnSpotter saidThere's a difference between confronting and insulting someone . There are a few people here who will never give up the latter.

    Seems to be so. The question is, at what point does it become Harassment, as prohibited by the TOU:
    Harassment. The use of the Website to threaten, engage in or advocate the harassment of any individual or group (verbally or electronically) is illegal and prohibited.

    I think we should all be smart enough as adults not to use certain words.
    If I get really confronting, I'll write, "There is no logic behind what you just said" even while the other person is writing "You are just plain stupid for saying that."
    Also, writing "seek medical help" just because somebody has a favorite TV show that you don't like is really pretty insulting not to mention juvenile.

    Some people don't understand that criticising something that another person likes is indirectly criticising the person. I hate tv; if I say that tv is stupid then I've just implied that people who like tv like stupid stuff and therefore they're stupid. Or if someone likes clothes that I think are ugly I can't say that because that's saying that they like ugly clothes; all I can say is that I don't like those clothes.
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    Dec 24, 2013 9:32 PM GMT
    JohnSpotter saidIf I get really confronting, I'll write, "There is no logic behind what you just said"

    Less confrontational would be "Your logic makes no sense to me." By saying there is no logic behind what they said you're indirectly calling them illogical.
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    Dec 24, 2013 9:59 PM GMT
    Lumpyoatmeal said
    JohnSpotter saidIf I get really confronting, I'll write, "There is no logic behind what you just said"

    Less confrontational would be "Your logic makes no sense to me." By saying there is no logic behind what they said you're indirectly calling them illogical.

    Well, yes, of course but I'm talking about when arguments get heated. I'm not looking to be *that* nice. icon_wink.gif
  • MikeW

    Posts: 6061

    Dec 24, 2013 10:09 PM GMT
    JohnSpotter said
    Lumpyoatmeal said
    JohnSpotter saidIf I get really confronting, I'll write, "There is no logic behind what you just said"

    Less confrontational would be "Your logic makes no sense to me." By saying there is no logic behind what they said you're indirectly calling them illogical.

    Well, yes, of course but I'm talking about when arguments get heated. I'm not looking to be *that* nice. icon_wink.gif

    LOL, but Lumpy is right. It's another facet of "owning"… owning that what we say says more about us, our opinion, our experience, our perception of things, than about the person we're replying to.
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    Dec 25, 2013 1:11 AM GMT
    Hm. I own what I am, certainly, and as anyone can tell you, I can be obnoxious at times. But people who need to "process" drive me a little crazy. I'm more direct than that. Remarks like "I don't understand your logic" to me seem needlessly like eggshell-walking. Logic isn't something about which one can have opinions---a thing is valid according to the rule of logic or it isn't. It's like those idiotic math classes where a student gets a high score for effort even if he came up with an absurd answer. Math is beautiful. There are no opinions in math. And effort is not something to praise if it leads nowhere.
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    Dec 25, 2013 11:06 AM GMT
    woodsmen saidI am Buddhist so I don't have a tenet to turn the other cheek. icon_wink.gif


    You were doing that long before you were Buddhist..icon_razz.gif
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    Dec 25, 2013 9:26 PM GMT
    woodsmen saidI am Buddhist so I don't have a tenet to turn the other cheek. icon_wink.gif

    I wasn't looking to contradict you, woodsman, but I'm interested in Buddhism and did a quick search. It seems there are quite a few links about Buddhists turning the other cheek.
    http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20130424165219AAq6vyn
    I want to be a good person but I have never understand this concept in any religion.