Camille Paglia: A Feminist Defense of Masculine Virtues

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    Dec 29, 2013 8:50 AM GMT
    I like reading her a bunch more than listening to her. I mostly agree with her, but for God sakes get her a Quaalude.

    http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303997604579240022857012920
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    Dec 29, 2013 9:36 AM GMT
    freedomisntfree saidI like reading her a bunch more than listening to her. I mostly agree with her, but for God sakes get her a Quaalude.

    http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303997604579240022857012920



    "If civilization had been left in female hands," she wrote, "we would still be living in grass huts."
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    Dec 29, 2013 1:11 PM GMT
    Very interesting.
    I dont know if I agree with all she says but the emasculation of men by feminists is obvious.
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    Dec 29, 2013 3:41 PM GMT
    I think she's is dead nuts correct about the below.

    I hate to keep referring to the gym, but it's kind of the only thing I do outside the house, especially in the wintertime that's not directly work related. There I know a bunch of kids from high school senior on up and I've seen some of these high school rules and regulations handbooks from some of the local schools.

    Some of these manuals are 300 pages. Good gawd, you can't do anything anymore. From back in my days, none of us would have made it through without suspensions or expulsion for the crime of simply boys being boys.

    "Ms. Paglia argues that the softening of modern American society begins as early as kindergarten. "Primary-school education is a crock, basically. It's oppressive to anyone with physical energy, especially guys," she says, pointing to the most obvious example: the way many schools have cut recess. "They're making a toxic environment for boys. Primary education does everything in its power to turn boys into neuters."

    She is not the first to make this argument, as Ms. Paglia readily notes. Fellow feminist Christina Hoff Sommers has written about the "war against boys" for more than a decade. The notion was once met with derision, but now data back it up: Almost one in five high-school-age boys has been diagnosed with ADHD, boys get worse grades than girls and are less likely to go to college.

    Ms. Paglia observes this phenomenon up close with her 11-year-old son, Lucien, whom she is raising with her ex-partner, Alison Maddex, an artist and public-school teacher who lives 2 miles away. She sees the tacit elevation of "female values"—such as sensitivity, socialization and cooperation—as the main aim of teachers, rather than fostering creative energy and teaching hard geographical and historical facts.

    By her lights, things only get worse in higher education. "This PC gender politics thing—the way gender is being taught in the universities—in a very anti-male way, it's all about neutralization of maleness." The result: Upper-middle-class men who are "intimidated" and "can't say anything. . . . They understand the agenda." In other words: They avoid goring certain sacred cows by "never telling the truth to women" about sex, and by keeping "raunchy" thoughts and sexual fantasies to themselves and their laptops."
  • MikeW

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    Dec 29, 2013 4:07 PM GMT
    JuanPablomv89 saidAnother bitter bitch who hates men..
    Well I love being attracted to MEN

    Hey JP, good to see you on the forum. However, you've misunderstood. Paglia is arguing FOR "Masculine Virtues."
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Dec 29, 2013 4:29 PM GMT
    The woman is a crackpot. Correlation doesn't equal causation. She's blaming our changing society on women, but in reality I'm not sure if women were involved in any of the decisions that got us where we are today. For instance, the decline in manufacturing is due to a lopsided trade agreement with China, in which everything we buy is imported, while our jobs and technologies are being exported. If anything, women proved during WWII to be as capable of manufacturing jobs as men. She is also a global warming denier, who blames feminism for ADHD in men, as if ADHD is a social condition caused by lack of recess. That's rubbish. ADHD is a brain disorder, and, like cancer, is the result of toxicity in our environment, due to pollution.

    The fact is, societies periodically decide they need to redirect toward manlier values. In the US, that was the sole reason the Boy Scouts were established. There is nothing inherently wrong with celebrating masculine virtue, but it is hugely wrong to blame women for social decay, etc. She said if women were in charge we'd all be living in huts... Uuumm, men were in charge for thousands of years of humans living in huts. She really doesn't know what she's talking about.icon_confused.gif
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    Dec 29, 2013 4:32 PM GMT
    MikeW said
    JuanPablomv89 saidAnother bitter bitch who hates men..
    Well I love being attracted to MEN

    Hey JP, good to see you on the forum. However, you've misunderstood. Paglia is arguing FOR "Masculine Virtues."

    There are so many knee-jerk reactions here in the forum. But you know that.
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    Dec 29, 2013 4:39 PM GMT
    Jaggal said
    JohnSpotter saidVery interesting.
    I dont know if I agree with all she says but the emasculation of men by feminists is obvious.


    I have many feminist friends and I do not feel emasculated in the least (unless you are referring to straight men in particular). Furthermore, patriarchy in my opinion, has caused men to turn on each other (where do you think homophobia comes from? Or the idea of anti feminine traits on men? etc.)

    I've had a lot of jobs and I see again and again that women can say what they want but men can't. Men tread carefully around women constantly. That's emasculation.
    I could give hundreds of examples but I'm not awake enough yet for a heated discussion. icon_wink.gif
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    Dec 29, 2013 4:45 PM GMT
    ^It might be just a New York or an American thing but believe me, it's there.
    My last company was destroyed by the last woman they hired. Within a few months, the company went bankrupt. That's how much trouble she caused for the men.
    But that's really another story.
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Dec 29, 2013 4:52 PM GMT
    JohnSpotter said
    Jaggal said
    JohnSpotter saidVery interesting.
    I dont know if I agree with all she says but the emasculation of men by feminists is obvious.


    I have many feminist friends and I do not feel emasculated in the least (unless you are referring to straight men in particular). Furthermore, patriarchy in my opinion, has caused men to turn on each other (where do you think homophobia comes from? Or the idea of anti feminine traits on men? etc.)

    I've had a lot of jobs and I see again and again that women can say what they want but men can't. Men tread carefully around women constantly. That's emasculation.
    I could give hundreds of examples but I'm not awake enough yet for a heated discussion. icon_wink.gif

    And what do you want to say to women that you feel you can't say?

    (don't worry, John, this is a safe place) icon_rolleyes.gificon_wink.gif
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Dec 29, 2013 4:54 PM GMT
    JohnSpotter said^It might be just a New York or an American thing but believe me, it's there.
    My last company was destroyed by the last woman they hired. Within a few months, the company went bankrupt. That's how much trouble she caused for the men.
    But that's really another story.

    So, that's evidence that women shouldn't be bosses??? Shall we oppress them, make us cook us dinner while we beat our chests???
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    Dec 29, 2013 4:56 PM GMT
    HottJoe said
    JohnSpotter said
    Jaggal said
    JohnSpotter saidVery interesting.
    I dont know if I agree with all she says but the emasculation of men by feminists is obvious.


    I have many feminist friends and I do not feel emasculated in the least (unless you are referring to straight men in particular). Furthermore, patriarchy in my opinion, has caused men to turn on each other (where do you think homophobia comes from? Or the idea of anti feminine traits on men? etc.)

    I've had a lot of jobs and I see again and again that women can say what they want but men can't. Men tread carefully around women constantly. That's emasculation.
    I could give hundreds of examples but I'm not awake enough yet for a heated discussion. icon_wink.gif

    And what do you want to say to women that you feel you can't say?

    (don't worry, John, this is a safe place) icon_rolleyes.gificon_wink.gif


    Most feminists agree that the patriarchy only benefits the top 20% or so of men nowadays.
  • MikeW

    Posts: 6061

    Dec 29, 2013 4:57 PM GMT
    HottJoe said
    JohnSpotter said^It might be just a New York or an American thing but believe me, it's there.
    My last company was destroyed by the last woman they hired. Within a few months, the company went bankrupt. That's how much trouble she caused for the men.
    But that's really another story.

    So, that's evidence that women shouldn't be bosses??? Shall we oppress them, make us cook us dinner while we beat our chests???

    That is not what JS was saying, Joe. Surely you see that and if you don't, it is an example of the "knee jerks" he mentioned.
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    Dec 29, 2013 5:22 PM GMT
    HottJoe saidThe woman is a crackpot. Correlation doesn't equal causation. She's blaming our changing society on women, but in reality I'm not sure if women were involved in any of the decisions that got us where we are today. For instance, the decline in manufacturing is due to a lopsided trade agreement with China, in which everything we buy is imported, while our jobs and technologies are being exported. If anything, women proved during WWII to be as capable of manufacturing jobs as men. She is also a global warming denier, who blames feminism for ADHD in men, as if ADHD is a social condition caused by lack of recess. That's rubbish. ADHD is a brain disorder, and, like cancer, is the result of toxicity in our environment, due to pollution.

    The fact is, societies periodically decide they need to redirect toward manlier values. In the US, that was the sole reason the Boy Scouts were established. There is nothing inherently wrong with celebrating masculine virtue, but it is hugely wrong to blame women for social decay, etc. She said if women were in charge we'd all be living in huts... Uuumm, men were in charge for thousands of years of humans living in huts. She really doesn't know what she's talking about.icon_confused.gif


    "She is also a global warming denier"

    Another good reason to appreciate her work.
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    Dec 29, 2013 5:32 PM GMT
    i haven't read any of her books or other articles, but my feeling is this lady just likes hearing herself talk and thinks (like many older people) that the way in which they were brought up is superior to modern ways. i disagree with most of what she says and find many of her arguments or statements to be idiotic or weak.

    1. "If civilization had been left in female hands," she wrote, "we would still be living in grass huts."

    seriously? icon_rolleyes.gificon_rolleyes.gif

    2. "The entire elite class now, in finance, in politics and so on, none of them have military service—hardly anyone, there are a few. But there is no prestige attached to it anymore. That is a recipe for disaster," she says. "These people don't think in military ways, so there's this illusion out there that people are basically nice, people are basically kind, if we're just nice and benevolent to everyone they'll be nice too. They literally don't have any sense of evil or criminality."

    she's arguing that military service is the only experience that affords you the leadership or strategic skills to take on finance, politics, or other "elite class" professions. i think this is completely ignorant. i also don't agree that there is no prestige in military service. i think those in the armed forces are extremely prized in our society, perhaps even more than they should be.

    3. A key part of the remedy, she believes, is a "revalorization" of traditional male trades—the ones that allow women's studies professors to drive to work (roads), take the elevator to their office (construction), read in the library (electricity), and go to gender-neutral restrooms (plumbing).

    when were road/construction workers, electricians, or plumbers ever "valorized" throughout history?

    ____________________________
    the only point where Ms. Paglia and i agree.

    4. " Michelle Obama's going on: 'Everybody must have college.' Why? Why? What is the reason why everyone has to go to college? Especially when college is so utterly meaningless right now, it has no core curriculum" and "people end up saddled with huge debts," says Ms. Paglia. What's driving the push toward universal college is "social snobbery on the part of a lot of upper-middle-class families who want the sticker in the window."
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    Dec 29, 2013 5:32 PM GMT
    Doug_Andrews saidWell, I personally can't stand to listen to her!


    Agree. I'd much prefer to read. She's way too hyper.
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Jan 05, 2014 8:39 PM GMT
    MikeW said
    HottJoe said
    JohnSpotter said^It might be just a New York or an American thing but believe me, it's there.
    My last company was destroyed by the last woman they hired. Within a few months, the company went bankrupt. That's how much trouble she caused for the men.
    But that's really another story.

    So, that's evidence that women shouldn't be bosses??? Shall we oppress them, make us cook us dinner while we beat our chests???

    That is not what JS was saying, Joe. Surely you see that and if you don't, it is an example of the "knee jerks" he mentioned.

    Substitute woman with gay man, and you'll see why it's discrimination to say that him being gay (or in this case a woman) has anything to do with it.