Gun Problem or Criminal Problem?

  • conservativej...

    Posts: 2465

    Jan 01, 2014 4:04 PM GMT
    cj -- One of the last thugs to be killed in 2013.


    Police: Homeowner shot, killed burglar
    EAST POINT, Ga. —


    A man shot and killed a burglar who forced his way into a home in south Fulton County Tuesday morning, according to police.

    East Point Police spokesman Cliff Chandler said the shooting happened on Mount Vernon Drive at about 10 a.m.

    Police said the burglar tried to enter the back door of the home. The homeowner heard the commotion and then opened fire.

    Channel 2's Tom Jones spoke to police and a woman, who said she is the sister-in-law of the homeowner.

    She said the person who drove up as she was leaving the home may have been the burglar, who probably thought no one was inside.

    Her brother-in-law said the burglar was knocking on the back door, then heard him using a shovel to break in. That's when the homeowner fired his gun.

    Jones is trying to speak to the homeowner about the incident.

    He'll have more details on Channel 2 Action News beginning at 4.
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    Jan 01, 2014 4:17 PM GMT
    I firmly believe if someone is breaking into your house you have the right to protect yourself and your family.
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    Jan 01, 2014 4:22 PM GMT
    I also believe any gun owner should have to disclose the fact they own a gun if they are allowing minors into their house. When I hear stories about a child's friend coming over and accidentally being killed because the kids found their parent's gun -- it makes me sick! If I had a child and I was aware you had a loaded gun in your house I wouldn't let my kid play there.
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    Jan 01, 2014 4:25 PM GMT
    AnOriginal saidI firmly believe if someone is breaking into your house you have the right to protect yourself and your family.


    We have a law about that here too, AND you can use a gun. We also have forms of gun control as well, which often confuddles me when there are cries against any kind of gun control in the US. You can in fact have both.
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    Jan 01, 2014 4:37 PM GMT
    Don't bring a shovel to a gun fight.
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    Jan 01, 2014 4:48 PM GMT
    it's a much deeper social problem than just guns or criminals.

    in any case, i have always and will forever be anti-gun ownership. while people have a right to protect their homes, there are certainly more rational ways to do it.
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    Jan 01, 2014 4:48 PM GMT
    Definitely a criminal problem. There have been guns around for a long time, but there are some real societal breakdowns that have created the monsters we see today. Criminals will always get guns, but the general population is losing the ability to defend themselves. What is the crime rate in areas where the majority of people have guns??
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    Jan 01, 2014 8:57 PM GMT
    I don't understand what the actual question is.
    I see a tragedy here but no problem.
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    Jan 01, 2014 10:17 PM GMT
    JohnSpotter saidI don't ubderstand what the actual question is.
    I see a tragedy here but no problem.

    I don't see a tragedy in a dead burglar. There might be a tragedy in New York or New Jersey, or some other nanny-state, where they would likely prosecute the homeowner - only the police there have the right to kill people indiscriminately.
  • Lincsbear

    Posts: 2605

    Jan 01, 2014 11:16 PM GMT
    I see a tragedy in a society so afraid that it thinks private gun ownership can protect/save it.
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    Jan 01, 2014 11:21 PM GMT
    JohnSpotter saidI don't ubderstand what the actual question is.
    I see a tragedy here but no problem.



    Maybe this is meant to be a celebration thread. Another dead thug.
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    Jan 01, 2014 11:33 PM GMT
    At the risk of coming off as a goody two shoes...
    I think it's a tragedy when anyone has to be killed, especially over possessions.
    Not to mention that no matter how guilty these people are, their innocent families will suffer terribly.
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    Jan 02, 2014 4:30 PM GMT
    JohnSpotter saidAt the risk of coming off as a goody two shoes...
    I think it's a tragedy when anyone has to be killed, especially over possessions.
    Not to mention that no matter how guilty these people are, their innocent families will suffer terribly.


    I agree...but how can the homeowner know the intentions of someone breaking in? Up here we've had some ghastly home invasions that ended in the victim's death. In such cases their families will never get over it, so the argument works both ways. Incidentally I'm no fan of guns and won't keep one even if I could.
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    Jan 02, 2014 5:15 PM GMT
    Sharing my life between my home-country of OZ and the U.S , i notice the difference on how easy it is in America to buy a gun . Too many atrocities have happened and U.S gun laws have to change !
    We had our share in Australia , but after the 1996 gunning in Tasmania that left 35 dead , Australia reacted .
    See following article :


    "Every country is unique, but Australia is more similar to the US than is, say, Japan or England. We have a frontier history and a strong gun culture. Each state and territory has its own gun laws, and in 1996 these varied widely between the jurisdictions. At that time Australia's firearm mortality rate per population was 2.6/100,000 – about one-quarter the US rate (pdf), according to data from the Australian Bureau of Statistics and the US Center for Disease Control. Today the rate is under 1/100,000 – less than one-tenth the US rate (pdf). Those figures refer to all gun deaths – homicide, suicide and unintentional. If we focus on gun homicide rates, the US outstrips Australia 30-fold.

    The 1996 reforms made gun laws stronger and uniform across Australia. Semi-automatic rifles were prohibited (with narrow exceptions), and the world's biggest buyback saw nearly 700,000 guns removed from circulation and destroyed. The licensing and registration systems of all states and territories were harmonised and linked, so that a person barred from owning guns in one state can no longer acquire them in another. All gun sales are subject to screening (universal background checks), which means you cannot buy a gun over the internet or at a garage sale.

    Gun ownership requires a license, and every sale is subject to a 28-day waiting period. The licensing process considers not only the applicant's age and criminal convictions, but also a range of other factors relevant to possession of a product that is (a) designed for killing and (b) highly coveted by people who should not have it. Relevant factors include the applicant's living circumstances, mental and physical health, restraining orders or other encounters with the law, type of gun desired and for what purpose, safety training, storage arrangements, and the public interest.

    Police make whatever inquiries they think necessary to inform the decision on whether (or under what conditions) the license should be granted. This can include checking with neighbourhood police, the family doctor and especially spouses or partners. There are many red flags that do not appear in an automated computer record of criminal convictions: substance abuse, mental instability, conflict at home or at work, to name a few. Another risk factor is whether granting the license might make guns accessible to another household member whose own circumstances would disqualify them from a license – for example, a depressed teenager or a person with criminal convictions.

    The screening process serves to block dangerous or irresponsible candidates, but also underscores for applicants and their families that bringing home a gun is a serious decision which affects the entire household, and indeed the entire community. Many applicants abandon their request during the waiting period – dissuaded by family members, or simply because the momentary enthusiasm for gun ownership passes.

    Australia also requires a justifiable reason for the type of weapon the applicant wants to own. If you say you plan to hunt rabbits, your license doesn't allow you to a high-powered rifle. And if you already have a couple of guns suitable for hunting rabbits, it becomes increasingly difficult to justify acquiring more. This is a measure against the accumulation of private arsenals. A significant legal and cultural difference between our two countries: Australia doesn't accept anticipation of killing another person (self-defence) as a reason for owning a gun. To qualify for a handgun license, you must belong to and regularly attend a target shooting club.

    An important feature of a licence is that it must be renewed every few years, and it can be cancelled or suspended if the bearer no longer meets the standard required – for example, due to domestic violence or a dangerous mental condition.

    Australia didn't ban guns. Hunting and shooting are still thriving. But by adopting laws that give priority to public safety, we have saved thousands of lives."

    Rebecca Peters
    theguardian.com, Saturday 14 December 2013 08.00 EST
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    Jan 02, 2014 5:35 PM GMT
    ikilledcaptainplanet saidi think widespread violence within a society is one of the many symptoms of a bigger problem that is being overlooked.

    and really.... folks seem to have NO respect for their fellow human beings and life in itself BUT want that same respect from those around them. the whole "me, me, me" thing. well, see, that "me, me, me" thing is coming back to bite folks in ass because after awhile and guess what... they can't live with themselves. wonder why?

    this society is fucked up. teaches you how to be fucked up from the jump and then eats you alive in the process where folks are literally self destructing as a means of coping. now, the guy that broke into the house IF he got away with what he did probably would have ended up getting fucked over eventually whether it would have been the prison system or something like that. the homeowner on the other hand is now himself a murderer. you can try to justify his actions all you want but he has to live with the fact that he killed somebody and that in itself is difficult to live with IF someone has a conscience. if they don't, then that person is someone to stay away from because they obviously have no regard for your life or theirs. even if the guy he killed was a criminal, it's still a life. that person was someone's son, father, or whoever the fuck else.

    but of course, folks NEVER think about that though.


    conscience is defined mainly by one's social environment. if the homeowner is primarily lauded for his actions, he will most likely not think twice about the importance of the burglar's life.

    you're right, society is f'ed up. even though the burglar has done wrong, we live in a society that has created the burglar. if we lived in a society where everyone was truly given equal opportunity to succeed in life, i would think differently.

  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Jan 02, 2014 5:48 PM GMT
    I've debated this issue many times, but it's impossible to get through to the NRA cult. The US is devolving, we're back in the Wild West, and Stand Your Ground is the watchword.... It's too bad Trayvon Martin brought a sidewalk to a gun fight. He'd probably be alive today if he'd exercised his right to shoot anyone who threatened him.

    I'm against gun violence and I don't own a gun. I don't want to ever be in a position of needing a gun, but it's ironic to me that most of the NRA supporters don't actually carry concealed weapons either. Mainstream America supports a hostile fringe movement because they are brainwashed. It's totally fucked up, backwards, and antisocial.
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    Jan 02, 2014 9:59 PM GMT
    meninlove said
    JohnSpotter saidAt the risk of coming off as a goody two shoes...
    I think it's a tragedy when anyone has to be killed, especially over possessions.
    Not to mention that no matter how guilty these people are, their innocent families will suffer terribly.


    I agree...but how can the homeowner know the intentions of someone breaking in? Up here we've had some ghastly home invasions that ended in the victim's death. In such cases their families will never get over it, so the argument works both ways. Incidentally I'm no fan of guns and won't keep one even if I could.

    The homeowner can't know the intentions of someone breaking into a house - only that guys who do that are often violent to people they encounter inside. Shooting them is a perfectly reasonable thing to do. Breaking into an auto supply store or other commercial establishment is different, because no one is living there. People who live in areas where there are lots of burglaries should keep a weapon at hand - preferably a shotgun, because it is hard to miss the target with a shotgun.
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    Jan 03, 2014 5:22 PM GMT
    HottJoe saidI've debated this issue many times, but it's impossible to get through to the NRA cult. The US is devolving, we're back in the Wild West, and Stand Your Ground is the watchword.... It's too bad Trayvon Martin brought a sidewalk to a gun fight. He'd probably be alive today if he'd exercised his right to shoot anyone who threatened him.

    I'm against gun violence and I don't own a gun. I don't want to ever be in a position of needing a gun, but it's ironic to me that most of the NRA supporters don't actually carry concealed weapons either. Mainstream America supports a hostile fringe movement because they are brainwashed. It's totally fucked up, backwards, and antisocial.


    I totally agree with you !!
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    Jan 03, 2014 5:24 PM GMT
    meninlove said
    AnOriginal saidI firmly believe if someone is breaking into your house you have the right to protect yourself and your family.


    We have a law about that here too, AND you can use a gun. We also have forms of gun control as well, which often confuddles me when there are cries against any kind of gun control in the US. You can in fact have both.


    There is TONS of gun control on the US.
  • roadbikeRob

    Posts: 14354

    Jan 03, 2014 5:26 PM GMT
    sean_zuri saidit's a much deeper social problem than just guns or criminals.

    in any case, i have always and will forever be anti-gun ownership. while people have a right to protect their homes, there are certainly more rational ways to do it.
    I agree 100%. It is time for a public referendum on repealing the second amendment which in my mind is the "violent crime contributing amendment".
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    Jan 03, 2014 5:28 PM GMT
    HottJoe saidI've debated this issue many times, but it's impossible to get through to the NRA cult. The US is devolving, we're back in the Wild West, and Stand Your Ground is the watchword.... It's too bad Trayvon Martin brought a sidewalk to a gun fight. He'd probably be alive today if he'd exercised his right to shoot anyone who threatened him.

    I'm against gun violence and I don't own a gun. I don't want to ever be in a position of needing a gun, but it's ironic to me that most of the NRA supporters don't actually carry concealed weapons either. Mainstream America supports a hostile fringe movement because they are brainwashed. It's totally fucked up, backwards, and antisocial.


    Where I live it's nearly impossible to get a carry permit. And many other places too. That said, I myself don't feel the need to carry a gun. I do, however, have one in my home.
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    Jan 03, 2014 5:30 PM GMT
    Will you want to ban axes? A man was arrested in AZ for killing his son with an axe. Filthy things, axes.
  • roadbikeRob

    Posts: 14354

    Jan 03, 2014 6:58 PM GMT
    HottJoe saidI've debated this issue many times, but it's impossible to get through to the NRA cult. The US is devolving, we're back in the Wild West, and Stand Your Ground is the watchword.... It's too bad Trayvon Martin brought a sidewalk to a gun fight. He'd probably be alive today if he'd exercised his right to shoot anyone who threatened him.

    I'm against gun violence and I don't own a gun. I don't want to ever be in a position of needing a gun, but it's ironic to me that most of the NRA supporters don't actually carry concealed weapons either. Mainstream America supports a hostile fringe movement because they are brainwashed. It's totally fucked up, backwards, and antisocial.
    You are absolutely correct. That is why I think that there should be a nationwide public referendum to determine the fate of the second amendment which is the "violent crime contributing amendment". Should we keep the second amendment, revise the second amendment, or should we permanently repeal the second amendment and send it into the dustbin of history with the 18th amendment(Prohibition). I vote to repeal the second amendment.
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    Jan 03, 2014 7:45 PM GMT
    Blakes7 said
    There is TONS of gun control on the US.

    Lol, the fact that you are calling that "Tons of gun control" shows how far removed your ( and probably most of US-Americans) relationship to guns is from people in other first world countries.

    Not judging here, just want to point out.

    I'm also not judging the homeowner, in the op's example, as he was within his rights.

    However, every year a number of family members get shot by trigger happy homeowners, trying to sneak back into the house because they lost the keys, they were out past their curfew or some such thing. While family members never, ever should try to break into their home, gun owners should maybe tell the 'burglars' and burglars that they are armed, before shooting.
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    Jan 03, 2014 9:17 PM GMT
    We don't have to compare ourselves to other countries.