why buddhism support gay people ??? And why christians ,muslims ,jews do not that?

  • tiki52

    Posts: 44

    Jan 06, 2014 3:02 PM GMT
    why buddhism treat gay people equaly ? And why christians and muslims do not that?
  • MikeW

    Posts: 6061

    Jan 06, 2014 4:09 PM GMT
    tiki52 saidwhy buddhism treat gay people equaly ? And why christians and muslims do not that?

    First of all, lets be clear that you are asking WHY something IS true, without verification that your assertion *is* in fact true.

    Although what you're saying may be "generally" true, individual adherents to any of these religions may hold a different opinion. There are gay Christians and Christian supporters of gay rights. You don't mention Jews but they should be included. There are gay Jews and Jewish supporters of gay rights. I can't speak re Muslims as I don't know very many or much about their religion, although there certainly are gay Muslims. I was brought up a Christian and can speak a bit from the perspective of that religion, I know less about Judaism and very little about Islam.

    As for Buddhism, according to this Wiki page, Buddhism's attitude toward homosexuality is complex. For example, this regarding the current Dalai Lama:

    Tenzin Gyatso, follows the traditional Tibetan Buddhist assertion that inappropriate sexual behaviour includes lesbian and gay sex, and indeed any sex other than penis-vagina intercourse with one's own monogamous partner, including oral sex, anal sex, and masturbation.

    In a 1994 interview he stated "If someone comes to me and asks whether homosexuality is okay or not, I will ask 'What is your companion's opinion?' If you both agree, then I think I would say 'if two males or two females voluntarily agree to have mutual satisfaction without further implication of harming others, then it is okay'". However, in his 1996 book Beyond Dogma, he states, "A sexual act is deemed proper when the couples use the organs intended for sexual intercourse and nothing else... homosexuality, whether it is between men or between women, is not improper in itself. What is improper is the use of organs already defined as inappropriate for sexual contact."

    In this discussion, it should be understood that the controversial topic is inappropriate sexual conduct for a Buddhist practitioner, as the Dalai Lama has repeatedly "voiced his support for the full recognition of human rights for all people, regardless of sexual orientation." He explained in 1997: "It's part of what we Buddhists call bad sexual conduct. Sexual organs were created for reproduction between the male element and the female element — and everything that deviates from that is not acceptable from a Buddhist point of view", while penis-vagina non-procreative sex is not considered to be sexual misconduct. The Dalai Lama admitted that there is a difference between the views of believers and unbelievers, "From a Buddhist point of view, men-to-men and women-to-women is generally considered sexual misconduct. From society's point of view, mutually agreeable homosexual relations can be of mutual benefit, enjoyable and harmless." He cited the Indian Buddhist texts of Vasubandhu, Asanga, and Ashvaghosha as his source concerning what constitutes inappropriate sexual behavior.

    Four years earlier, he had been unsure if a mutually agreeable non-abusive same sex relationship would be acceptable within the general principles of Buddhism. However, he had difficulty imagining the mechanics of homosexual sex, saying that nature had arranged male and female organs "in such a manner that is very suitable... Same-sex organs cannot manage well. ...

    Although the above is not condemnation of homosexuality, it is far from full acceptance of it. But we may be getting ahead of ourselves...

    My answer to your WHY question: The Abrahamic religions, Judaism, Christianity and Islam, assert the existence of a singular God who has, through His profits, laid down specific laws concerning human conduct. One must adhere to these laws if one wishes to receive the rewards this God is alleged to provide.

    What is interesting to me is, it seems homosexuality isn't a big deal as it is seldom mentioned and even then only alluded to, not spelled out directly. For example, there's no mention of it in the Ten Commandments, the closest being "Thou shalt not commit adultery" which (one could assume) applies to all sexual orientations. There are a few "oblique" references to homosexual conduct in the Christian Old and New Testaments (I'm not familiar with the Torah or the Koran), but their exact meaning is open to interpretation. NEVERTHELESS, it is true that the overriding position taken by Catholicism and most of the Protestant traditions is that homosexual behavior is "sinful" -- meaning, against nature and against the wishes of God.

    By comparison, Buddhism is somewhat more of a philosophy than a religion. The goal of Buddhism is Enlightenment and its tenants and laws have to do with what will and will not benefit the achievement of that aim. Although it can, and is, argued by some that "enlightenment" and "the Kingdom of Heaven" are metaphors for the same state of consciousness, there are fundamental differences. "Enlightenment" is understood to be a state of awareness within the individual, where for most adherents to the Abrahamic traditions, "the Kingdom of Heaven" is regarded a celestial realm independent of the individual.

    The Abrahamic religions are based on control of human behavior and sexuality in general is frowned upon, even regarded as "sinful," outside of sanctioned, religious marriage (union before God). Sexual activity outside of this union is regarded as immoral and punishable.

    I'm not sure if Buddhism has this same component although it is my understanding that *celibacy* and the elimination of *desire* (including sexual desire) is considered necessary for the achievement of Enlightenment. In this case sexual activity isn't regarded so much a "moral" issue as it is a diversion and distraction from the aim of Enlightenment.

    In any case, my answer to your WHY question is that prejudice is always the result of *ignorance* regardless of what beliefs the ignorant hold. Most heterosexual people do not question their sexual orientation and are, therefore, largely ignorant of other orientations.

    My personal view is that all of them have it wrong: Sexuality is, or can be, itself a form of "worship" or "union" with the most powerful and fundamental forces our universe has to offer. The ecstasy of orgasm is experienced by almost every human being either privately or in the company of one or more others. And yet, this profound yet simple activity is one of the LEAST understood activities human beings engage in on regular if not daily basis. Religions and the cultures they're apart of want to CONTROL this activity and limit it primarily to the PROCREATIVE function when, clearly, procreation is only one facet of this activity. Others include, stimulation, pleasure, joy, sharing, bonding and many others perhaps less obvious.


  • PR_GMR

    Posts: 3831

    Jan 06, 2014 4:15 PM GMT
    tiki52 saidwhy buddhism treat gay people equaly ? And why christians and muslims do not that?

    Because Buddhism isn't centered around an almighty god that judges. It centers around the tenet that all human beings suffer and that the purpose of spiritual practice is to lessen human suffering.

    Christianity and Islam are centered around almighty gods that judge and inflict punishment on human beings who sin. Most christians choose to forget that Jesus was compassionate and forgiving and instead focus on righteousness.

    I despise righteousness and jugemental people. And I'm a Buddhist. Best decision I made in my life--to become Buddhist.
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Jan 06, 2014 4:19 PM GMT
    Are the countries with the most equality generally buddhist though???
  • MikeW

    Posts: 6061

    Jan 06, 2014 4:22 PM GMT
    HottJoe saidAre the countries with the most equality generally buddhist though???

    Good question because it moves it beyond religion.

    EQUALITY in the US has to do with being equal under the law -- independent of religious views.
  • PR_GMR

    Posts: 3831

    Jan 06, 2014 4:27 PM GMT
    MikeW said
    HottJoe saidAre the countries with the most equality generally buddhist though???

    Good question because it moves it beyond religion.

    EQUALITY in the US has to do with being equal under the law -- independent of religious views.

    Yes, this. Buddhist isn't considered a world religion like Christianity or Islam. One can't make any correlation.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 06, 2014 11:34 PM GMT
    Per Mike's post: "A sexual act is deemed proper when the couples use the organs intended for sexual intercourse and nothing else..."

    That's why you never see a Buddhist use a back scratcher. If you can't reach it with your hand, as intended, you're shit out of luck.

    The Tibetans as described by Mike's posting about the Dalai Lama are of the Mahayana traditions, one of the two main branches of Buddhism. There are various schools within each. Having studied many but concentrating for the past 20 years as a student of Dzogchen, I am adherent to none.

    Following is the view from the other main branch, Theravada tradition, per wiki:

    Thai Theravada Buddhists, being the more conservative wing of Buddhism are less supportive of gay rights and marriages. Human rights issues have received poor attention in Theravada countries, as the culture is rooted in the belief in the Law of Karma, which is more popular among Thai Buddhists than philosophical and advanced scriptural studies in Buddhism. Many monasteries and monks advocate their lay followers to see the world through the lens of karma, i.e., every person is born to pay back their sins. According to their explanations, all homosexuals and sexual deviants were once offenders of the Third Precept (prohibiting sexual misconduct) - at least in their past lives, and they must pay off their past sins in their present life. Therefore, they deserve all that society gives to them. This belief system creates strong conservative values in Theravada Buddhist culture. For these reasons, it is unlikely that Buddhists will easily approve a law to allow gay marriage. Gay and lesbian activists in Thailand will probably not be as successful as their fellows in European countries or Canada.[45] It is important to note, however, that Theravada Buddhists outside of the South-East Asian Area, are generally more supportive, or neutral, to same-sex marriage, and LGBT rights as a whole.