California Caterer Refuses to Serve Gay Wedding Over 'Christian Beliefs'

  • metta

    Posts: 39134

    Jan 08, 2014 5:13 PM GMT
    California Caterer Refuses to Serve Gay Wedding Over 'Christian Beliefs'


    http://www.advocate.com/business/2014/01/08/california-caterer-refuses-serve-gay-wedding-over-christian-beliefs


    https://www.facebook.com/janet.zimmermancatering?fref=ts&ref=br_tf
  • Being

    Posts: 191

    Jan 08, 2014 5:58 PM GMT
    metta8 saidCalifornia Caterer Refuses to Serve Gay Wedding Over 'Christian Beliefs'


    http://www.advocate.com/business/2014/01/08/california-caterer-refuses-serve-gay-wedding-over-christian-beliefs


    https://www.facebook.com/janet.zimmermancatering?fref=ts&ref=br_tf



    Whelp.
  • metta

    Posts: 39134

    Jan 08, 2014 6:11 PM GMT
    It is too easy to get information on the internet. I did a quick search and you can get her home address and phone number.
  • Adozark

    Posts: 299

    Jan 08, 2014 6:48 PM GMT
    Honestly I have to say that people should respect her beliefs. She is only refusing to cater a wedding, she is not targeting the couple, they came to her and she politely refused.

    fI really appreciate that you were honest with me and gave me a heads up that this would be a same sex marriage. I hope that you will also appreciate when I am honest with you when I say that catering your wedding would comprise [sic] my Christian beliefs and I will be unable to accept this job. I am sure that you will be able to find someone who will better suit your needs.


    I really don't see anything wrong with that, it is no different than if you refused to cater her child's baptismal based on you not being Christian.

    I kinda think people are a little over sensitive to this kind of stuff, she's not trying to stir up any trouble.
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    Jan 09, 2014 3:26 PM GMT
    southbeach1500 said
    Adozark saidHonestly I have to say that people should respect her beliefs. She is only refusing to cater a wedding, she is not targeting the couple, they came to her and she politely refused.

    fI really appreciate that you were honest with me and gave me a heads up that this would be a same sex marriage. I hope that you will also appreciate when I am honest with you when I say that catering your wedding would comprise [sic] my Christian beliefs and I will be unable to accept this job. I am sure that you will be able to find someone who will better suit your needs.


    I really don't see anything wrong with that, it is no different than if you refused to cater her child's baptismal based on you not being Christian.

    I kinda think people are a little over sensitive to this kind of stuff, she's not trying to stir up any trouble.


    You make far too much sense. Are you sure you're gay?


    So shall she also be able to fire or refuse to hire married gay people? Single gay people? You?
  • Adozark

    Posts: 299

    Jan 09, 2014 4:59 PM GMT
    meninlove said
    southbeach1500 said
    Adozark saidHonestly I have to say that people should respect her beliefs. She is only refusing to cater a wedding, she is not targeting the couple, they came to her and she politely refused.

    fI really appreciate that you were honest with me and gave me a heads up that this would be a same sex marriage. I hope that you will also appreciate when I am honest with you when I say that catering your wedding would comprise [sic] my Christian beliefs and I will be unable to accept this job. I am sure that you will be able to find someone who will better suit your needs.


    I really don't see anything wrong with that, it is no different than if you refused to cater her child's baptismal based on you not being Christian.

    I kinda think people are a little over sensitive to this kind of stuff, she's not trying to stir up any trouble.


    You make far too much sense. Are you sure you're gay?


    So shall she also be able to fire or refuse to hire married gay people? Single gay people? You?


    Hiring is a whole different ball game, but what kind of events you chose to cater is different.

    Let's say you owned her bakery and you where asked to cater a baptismal, but you think Christianity is BS and don't want to be involved in that event. Should those people now be able to drag you in court and have a judge order you to cater their baptismal against your own wishes simply because you refused based on a religious stance?

    It seems like we get into a stale-mate over your freedom of religion (or to not be involved in religion), and those people's freedom to practice theirs.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 09, 2014 5:04 PM GMT
    Adozark said
    meninlove said
    southbeach1500 said
    Adozark saidHonestly I have to say that people should respect her beliefs. She is only refusing to cater a wedding, she is not targeting the couple, they came to her and she politely refused.

    fI really appreciate that you were honest with me and gave me a heads up that this would be a same sex marriage. I hope that you will also appreciate when I am honest with you when I say that catering your wedding would comprise [sic] my Christian beliefs and I will be unable to accept this job. I am sure that you will be able to find someone who will better suit your needs.


    I really don't see anything wrong with that, it is no different than if you refused to cater her child's baptismal based on you not being Christian.

    I kinda think people are a little over sensitive to this kind of stuff, she's not trying to stir up any trouble.


    You make far too much sense. Are you sure you're gay?


    So shall she also be able to fire or refuse to hire married gay people? Single gay people? You?


    Hiring is a whole different ball game, but what kind of events you chose to cater is different.

    Let's say you owned her bakery and you where asked to cater a baptismal, but you think Christianity is BS and don't want to be involved in that event. Should those people now be able to drag you in court and have a judge order you to cater their baptismal against your own wishes simply because you refused based on a religious stance?



    Yes, they have that right, and I would expect to face consequences for illegal discrimination. Where would you shop if grocery stores refused to serve gays?

    You're also cherry picking in regards to discrimination. Did you know that currently in 27+ States you can be fired for simply being perceived to be gay, even if it's on your own time?
  • Adozark

    Posts: 299

    Jan 09, 2014 5:17 PM GMT
    meninlove said
    Adozark said
    meninlove said
    southbeach1500 said
    Adozark saidHonestly I have to say that people should respect her beliefs. She is only refusing to cater a wedding, she is not targeting the couple, they came to her and she politely refused.

    fI really appreciate that you were honest with me and gave me a heads up that this would be a same sex marriage. I hope that you will also appreciate when I am honest with you when I say that catering your wedding would comprise [sic] my Christian beliefs and I will be unable to accept this job. I am sure that you will be able to find someone who will better suit your needs.


    I really don't see anything wrong with that, it is no different than if you refused to cater her child's baptismal based on you not being Christian.

    I kinda think people are a little over sensitive to this kind of stuff, she's not trying to stir up any trouble.


    You make far too much sense. Are you sure you're gay?


    So shall she also be able to fire or refuse to hire married gay people? Single gay people? You?


    Hiring is a whole different ball game, but what kind of events you chose to cater is different.

    Let's say you owned her bakery and you where asked to cater a baptismal, but you think Christianity is BS and don't want to be involved in that event. Should those people now be able to drag you in court and have a judge order you to cater their baptismal against your own wishes simply because you refused based on a religious stance?



    Yes, they have that right, and I would expect to face consequences for illegal discrimination. Where would you shop if grocery stores refused to serve gays?

    You're also cherry picking in regards to discrimination. Did you know that currently in 27+ States you can be fired for simply being perceived to be gay, even if it's on your own time?


    Ok. I respect that stance.

    I think there is a difference between picking certain events not to cater, and picking certain people not to serve. If this lady was refusing to cater a birthday party because the kid was gay, that feels more like discrimination since it isn't a ceremony meant to bring two people together that shouldn't be in her view of her religion.

    At what point does she lose her freedom of religion because she is not allowed to use her religion in decision making at her own business.

    And that is a shame that those states allow a person to be fired for being gay, that is discrimination and I'm not sure how that is even allowed.
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    Jan 09, 2014 5:29 PM GMT


    Adozark there's a big difference between your freedom to practice your faith and beliefs as opposed to oppressing others with it.

    Should your pharmacists be able to refuse service to gays? Should they be able to refuse service to someone of another faith? For example, a muslim pharmacist refusing service to a Christian customer, or vice versa? As you can see, anarchy can be an excessively messy undertaking.
  • Adozark

    Posts: 299

    Jan 09, 2014 5:42 PM GMT
    meninlove said

    Adozark there's a big difference between your freedom to practice your faith and beliefs as opposed to oppressing others with it.

    Should your pharmacists be able to refuse service to gays? Should they be able to refuse service to someone of another faith? For example, a Muslim pharmacist refusing service to a Christian customer, or vice versa? As you can see, anarchy can be an excessively messy undertaking.


    A pharmacist refusing service to a gay person would be discrimination, because they are refusing to give them a drug for a completely unrelated reason.

    If Westbro Babtist Church (and was not yet considered a hate group) was holding a anti-gay event and you where asked to cater, I guess you would be unable to refuse. They are just exercising their freedom of religion and speech and it doesn't matter that you do not want to support what they are doing.

    I am not religious but know people who are. Like I said I think refusing to be involved in a certain ceremony is different than refusing business to a particular person.

    That's all I was trying to say. I don't think either of us will let up on our position on the subject, so hopefully we can agree to just disagree. icon_biggrin.gif

    I have much more to learn anyways, I'm sure if a couple years I'll have some other view on the subject, who knows.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 09, 2014 6:01 PM GMT
    Adozark said
    meninlove said

    Adozark there's a big difference between your freedom to practice your faith and beliefs as opposed to oppressing others with it.

    Should your pharmacists be able to refuse service to gays? Should they be able to refuse service to someone of another faith? For example, a Muslim pharmacist refusing service to a Christian customer, or vice versa? As you can see, anarchy can be an excessively messy undertaking.


    A pharmacist refusing service to a gay person would be discrimination, because they are refusing to give them a drug for a completely unrelated reason.

    If Westbro Babtist Church (and was not yet considered a hate group) was holding a anti-gay event and you where asked to cater, I guess you would be unable to refuse. They are just exercising their freedom of religion and speech and it doesn't matter that you do not want to support what they are doing.

    I am not religious but know people who are. Like I said I think refusing to be involved in a certain ceremony is different than refusing business to a particular person.

    That's all I was trying to say. I don't think either of us will let up on our position on the subject, so hopefully we can agree to just disagree.


    In regards to the pharmacist: HIV drugs and drugs to treat STDs, as an example.

  • KissTheSky

    Posts: 1981

    Jan 20, 2014 12:54 AM GMT
    I support exposing these right-wing bigots to the light of day and then hopefully damaging their incomes through lost business.
    Some states continue to allow them to discriminate, so it also allows their customers to choose not to give business to these kind of bigots.
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    Jan 20, 2014 1:06 AM GMT
    They refused to cater for a gay wedding. They did not refuse to cater to gays as a class of people. If gays were having a family reunion, I bet they would cater to them. If they refused to cater just because they were gay, that would be wrong. I think some of you don't see the difference, but I do.
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    Jan 20, 2014 1:26 AM GMT
    southbeach1500 said
    michael61 saidThey refused to cater for a gay wedding. They did not refuse to cater to gays as a class of people. If gays were having a family reunion, I bet they would cater to them. If they refused to cater just because they were gay, that would be wrong. I think some of you don't see the difference, but I do.


    As you probably realize by now, many here don't have the intellectual capacity to see the difference.


    I can get along with almost anyone, who is not out to hurt and harm me emotionally or physically. I have never demanded anyone to approve or like everything I do, say, or believe.