Why isn't there more empathy?

  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 09, 2014 3:38 PM GMT
    Since we're all gay here, I think it's safe to assume most RJ members know what that feels like to be rejected, marginalized and treated as lesser humans beings for a trait that they were born with.

    So my question is: why is that same rejection and marginalization directed towards gays who are of color? We feel rejected, undervalued, dismissed, marginalized, or otherwise flat-out ignored in this gay "community." As one RJ member put it, "Who cares about racial diversity?"

    I don't mean to paint all white gays with a broad brush. I know there are whites who empathize and are willing to listen. But it's still true that most RJ members couldn't care less if all gays of color disappeared from gay clubs, dances, PRIDE parades, grindr, TV shows, even RJ - virtually erased into nonexistence.

    But why? You would think that gays, of all people, would understand how unfair, how unjust, how dehumanizing it is to be discriminated and marginalized based on an inborn trait. So why isn't there more empathy?
  • Fable

    Posts: 3866

    Jan 09, 2014 3:54 PM GMT
    ola senorita cosa
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 09, 2014 3:58 PM GMT
    You're dealing with white people, who can very often times be racist, remember racism dosent always mean burning a cross on someone yard or violence. So just because they are gay dosent make them any smarter. On the reverse there are alot of ethnic gays who are obsessed with whites to the point that they ignore there own people lol. So it really all depends.

    They best way to get someone to listen to you regardless of race is to be hot, always remember that !!!!!!
  • MikeW

    Posts: 6061

    Jan 09, 2014 4:22 PM GMT
    knightmare saidYou're dealing with white people, who can very often times be racist, remember racism dosent always mean burning a cross on someone yard or violence. So just because they are gay dosent make them any smarter. On the reverse there are alot of ethnic gays who are obsessed with whites to the point that they ignore there own people lol. So it really all depends.

    They best way to get someone to listen to you regardless of race is to be hot, always remember that !!!!!!


    Yeah, it is racism for sure. There's always the 'hotness' factor, too. But I think it is more than that because there is a lot of 'cliquishness' that goes on among people. Why? Well, immaturity and not feeling secure in themselves. Feeling like the need to put someone else down in order to feel better about themselves.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 09, 2014 4:23 PM GMT
    I've worked in a few jobs where it was 1/3 white, 1/3 black, 1/3 Hispanic.
    The black people were by far the most racist.
    I only say this because it's a racist thing in itself to say white people are the most racist.
    I'm not putting down black people because I don't care. I think everyone is racist so I can make this post without being a hypocrite.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 09, 2014 4:59 PM GMT
    Why do the minorities must HAVE to have a white guy? why can't you date within the minorities then? personally I feel like I can relate to people of my native heritage and are a lot similar to me when it comes to traditional values. Since you too are a minority, as am I, you should be able to empathize oh how we feel on the matter. It's like those kids who cry saying "so and so wont play with me" well, pick friends who do want to play with you.
  • MikeW

    Posts: 6061

    Jan 09, 2014 5:05 PM GMT
    I think the OPs question has to do with empathy and its lack there-of. Race was used as an example, perhaps not the best choice.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 09, 2014 5:26 PM GMT
    On yeah those darn whites don't wanna represent you enough. With all the great examples of diversity from the rest of the world you would think they would learn.

    arashi%2Bad%2Bfor%2B3ds.JPG
    chinese_coke_billboard.jpg
    india-print-ads-2.jpg
    Breast_cancer_ad_wide-620x349.jpg
    boma-fund.jpg
    tecate-switches-from-mexican-to-us-ad-ag

    Look at that, it's like the frigging UN in each of those advertisements.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 09, 2014 5:33 PM GMT
    Ravensong:

    That misses a point. The societies that produced those ads are homogenous populations. We're the supposed "melting pot", and really almost the only large country whose people represent forebears from every other country, race, and religion on the planet. China, for all its 2 billion people, has very little non-Chinese population; nor have India, Japan, or Russia much in the way of non-natives. The closest would be Russia, which incorporated many central Asian peoples (most of whom want to break away, like the Chechens). So it's not an issue in these places.

    Of the small-population countries, only Canada has a wide variety of ethnic immigrants, and that only recently. (Assuming purely for the sake of argument that "Canada" is a real place, and not a stage set in New Jersey.)
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 09, 2014 5:39 PM GMT
    Aristoshark saidRavensong:

    That misses a point. The societies that produced those ads are homogenous populations. We're the supposed "melting pot", and really almost the only large country whose people represent forebears from every other country, race, and religion on the planet. China, for all its 2 billion people, has very little non-Chinese population; nor have India, Japan, or Russia much in the way of non-natives. The closest would be Russia, which incorporated many central Asian peoples (most of whom want to break away, like the Chechens). So it's not an issue in these places.

    Of the small-population countries, only Canada has a wide variety of ethnic immigrants, and that only recently. (Assuming purely for the sake of argument that "Canada" is a real place, and not a stage set in New Jersey.)


    Actually, we're the people who took over the stage set for Northern Exposure and changed it to Canada. icon_lol.gif

    These guys are too young to remember the racism(actually countryism) bigotry that used to go on among whites.
    Like so:
    Dago, Wop, Kike, Hunky, Fop, Paddy, Polak, etc etc etc.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 09, 2014 5:44 PM GMT
    Akkarins saidSince we're all gay here, I think it's safe to assume most RJ members know what that feels like to be rejected, marginalized and treated as lesser humans beings for a trait that they were born with.

    So my question is: why is that same rejection and marginalization directed towards gays who are of color? We feel rejected, undervalued, dismissed, marginalized, or otherwise flat-out ignored in this gay "community." As one RJ member put it, "Who cares about racial diversity?"

    I don't mean to paint all white gays with a broad brush. I know there are whites who empathize and are willing to listen. But it's still true that most RJ members couldn't care less if all gays of color disappeared from gay clubs, dances, PRIDE parades, grindr, TV shows, even RJ - virtually erased into nonexistence.

    But why? You would think that gays, of all people, would understand how unfair, how unjust, how dehumanizing it is to be discriminated and marginalized based on an inborn trait. So why isn't there more empathy?

    First, if you're basing your assessment from what you see in these forums you need to reevaluate your methodology. The forums will appear to contain a strong racist white coalition because a small group of black members like to turn all discussions of race into a racist rant where they're the victims and every white guy hates them. That's all BS. Even this forum has a posting where the poster makes this assertion but then doesn't even have the balls to have his profile shown.

    You ARE painting all white guys with a broad brush, there's no 'trying not', you've done it. It always goes back to how the whites treat the blacks, never how blacks treat each other (that's accepted), never how whites treat other ethnic groups (that's unknown I guess), never how other ethnic groups treat blacks (not sure why that's never an issue with blacks). Sure whites are in the majority and yes, there are certainly white racists out there. I would venture to say however, there is smaller percentage in the gay community than the general population (nope, I have no statistics to prove that so fire away). I think the issue here on RJ is that if you don't agree with the small vocal group then you're considered in denial and one of the racists because you've never 'walked in our shoes'. These's some truth to that, we have never walked in those shoes but always blaming someone else for who you are or what you become is total BS.

    I never had handouts, I never got preferential treatment, I never was handed anything I didn't work my ass off for so I resent the idea that I treat others inappropriately because I'm white (therefore superior) and you're 'lesser humans'. That is extremely offensive to me in so many ways! I treat everyone as someone respected until I know otherwise. Am I racist because I don't have any 'buddies' on my buddy list that are black? I say no, I'm offended that no blacks have ever emailed me and conversed with me long enough to feel comfortable including them on my list, does that mean their racists? I have no blacks in my 'inner circle' of friends, does that make me a racist? I say no and my asian bf, asian, and latino friends would probably say I'm not racist either. Am I required to have a certain percentage of black in my personal inner circle to qualify as a non-racist?

    So why would you paint me with your wide brush as being racist? Because I won't join the self pitty party of a vocal group of black when NONE of them has ever attempted to even get to know me (presumably because I'm white? Maybe because I'm old or perhaps just because I'm not 'fit' enough to meet their standards. (I guess that makes them racist, agist and fitist! (yeah I made that up…so what!)).
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 09, 2014 5:48 PM GMT
    Aristoshark saidRavensong:

    That misses a point. The societies that produced those ads are homogenous populations. We're the supposed "melting pot", and really almost the only large country whose people represent forebears from every other country, race, and religion on the planet. China, for all its 2 billion people, has very little non-Chinese population; nor have India, Japan, or Russia much in the way of non-natives. The closest would be Russia, which incorporated many central Asian peoples (most of whom want to break away, like the Chechens). So it's not an issue in these places.

    Of the small-population countries, only Canada has a wide variety of ethnic immigrants, and that only recently. (Assuming purely for the sake of argument that "Canada" is a real place, and not a stage set in New Jersey.)

    Sharkie, ask yourself why China isn't a "melting pot." It's because they want to stay Chinese. China has ethnic minorities, such as the Uyghurs, which they love to marginalize so they can continue to hold onto Xinjiang province. Then there's the Tibetans, which the Chinese are sending ethnic Han to colonize and reduce the Tibetan population so they can hold onto Tibet. They are not represented in Chinese society because the Chinese don't give two fucks about diversity. They are un-apologetically Chinese. Yet they want to come here and bitch about lack of representation? They can go cry me a river. I know how these types operate. They are blatantly ethnocentric yet tell whites they can't be. Hypocritical whiners that I'm tired of listening to.
  • Adozark

    Posts: 299

    Jan 09, 2014 6:29 PM GMT
    Akkarins saidSo why isn't there more empathy?


    I personally never saw it, on the media and otherwise, maybe because if it wasn't affecting me I never noticed it.

    I'm not sure if white guys notice anything wrong because they have never experienced it.

    I think this is the same as if you ask the average man about the issue of women's body image, well since men don't "feel" the issue, they don't notice it when they see it and it doesn't feel very real/widespread. That is just my $0.02 off the top of my head.

    And I would care if men of color disappeared, I think Latin and black men are very attractive and it would be a shame to miss out on the different types of attractive guys.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 09, 2014 6:53 PM GMT
    Jaggal said

    Blah blah blah, Apply all what you said to black Americans, why are they more homophobic?
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_opinion_of_same-sex_marriage_in_the_United_States#By_ethnicity


    What the fuck does that have to do with white gays being racist pricks ????? Black peoples views is the product of slavery. Their religion, culture, food. Exactly what are you proving by throwing them under the bus ?

    OH WAIT you have one of the most openly racist people on RJ in your friendslist. Birds of a feather flock togethericon_lol.gificon_lol.gificon_lol.gificon_lol.gificon_lol.gificon_lol.gif nvm trololololo
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 09, 2014 7:27 PM GMT
    Good question!

    Empathy is something we learn, but we do not learn it from being shamed. In fact, we learn the opposite from being shamed. We learn how to empathize when it's modelled for us and shown to us by people who care about us.

    Empathy also requires us to see each other as other people who might actually be hurt by the things we say. Sadly, the anonymity takes away much of the humanness of a profile, which is why it's worth it to meet Real Jock members in real life or on camera.

    And then there are trolls whose soul purpose is to get attention from us for something that appears true and serious, but then turns out to be fake. This causes us to be more skeptical, sarcastic and less willing to show that we actually care.

    In conclusion, there are many reasons why there's a lack of empathy and compassion on Real Jock, but starting a thread wherein you pose the question and then follow up with offensive assumptions about how white men feel about men of other colours, will not make things better. Shame breeds shame.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 09, 2014 9:16 PM GMT
    Jaggal said
    knightmare said
    Jaggal said

    Blah blah blah, Apply all what you said to black Americans, why are they more homophobic?
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_opinion_of_same-sex_marriage_in_the_United_States#By_ethnicity


    What the fuck does that have to do with white gays being racist pricks ????? Black peoples views is the product of slavery. Their religion, culture, food. Exactly what are you proving by throwing them under the bus ?

    OH WAIT you have one of the most openly racist people on RJ in your friendslist. Birds of a feather flock togethericon_lol.gificon_lol.gificon_lol.gificon_lol.gificon_lol.gificon_lol.gif nvm trololololo


    Bwahahah, I guess I am the equivalent of the KKK or Hitler, or even Stalin because of who I find attractive...oh wait, i'm technically a minority too, fuckface. OH SHIT, THis racist actually has different races in his buddy list! Why don't you show your face you dirty pig.


    Minority ? Aren't you the one who was saying that arabs are 'white' or considered 'white' in another thread ? But now you want to fall back on minority status trolololol. NO idiot not because of who you fuck but because of the company you keep and throwing a darker race under the bus in an irrelevant topic ! But since we all agree that what we find to be attractive the most is what we give the most attention to then it would make sense that racists dont bother you because if the race thats being shitted on is a race that you're not attracted to then you simply dont give a fuck.

    Show my face ? Well if it isnt the pot calling the kettle black trolololololol

    Bravo !
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 09, 2014 9:23 PM GMT
    Jaggal said go suck a colored dick.


    I only date white guys, sorry buddy. Left winger, you have no IDEA what my politics are like.

    I simply dont like bullshit

  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 09, 2014 9:34 PM GMT
    Akkarins saidYou would think that gays, of all people, would understand how unfair, how unjust, how dehumanizing it is to be discriminated and marginalized based on an inborn trait. So why isn't there more empathy?

    Simply put, people like to hate. It's in our nature as human beings. Here in the United States, the most obvious example may be racial -- the hatred that goes both ways between blacks and whites. In Northern Ireland, where almost everyone is white, they hate based on religion -- Catholics vs. Protestants. In Rwanda, where nearly everyone is the same race and religion, they hate based on class -- Tutsis vs. Hutus. If we were all identical clones of one another, I assure you we would find a reason to divide ourselves into factions that hate each other.

    Just as common sense isn't all that common, empathy and self-awareness are not widely distributed traits. Why do gays, a group that has faced discrimination, discriminate against others? For the same reason blacks discriminate against other blacks: they're human.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 09, 2014 9:35 PM GMT
    It's my opinion that when someone starts a racist thread, they're hoping to see a fight like this.
    Screw the outside world. We gays are the most unfortunate minority. We should support each other a whole lot better than this. We keep getting on soap boxes for people who would see us dead.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 09, 2014 9:40 PM GMT
    ikilledcaptainplanet said
    Jaggal said" what flies in the gay community among gay men doesn't fly in the rest of society "
    What the fuck are you talking about?


    you should try hanging around more straight people, breh. what i'm saying makes perfect sense IF you actually are around straight people most of the time. i doubt that any of you folks would be acting the way you do if you were around mostly straight people all the time because they wouldn't have that shit.

    I lived 50 years in the str8 world, does that get your blessing for having some authority to talk about str8 guys? I have a ton of str8 friends from varying races and there's not a one of them that would continually complain about how repressed they are like you do. Sure they have issues but they take accountability for their lives and they make something of themselves with who they are and what they have. They are successful people, not because they get some special treatment because they feel the world is against them but they actually prove to the world that they're worthy of what they get.

    It seems to me that some of you have some real insecurity issues you need to get help with. There are many very successful people from every race and some real losers from every race but the successful ones don't go around blaming everyone else for their failures like you do.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 10, 2014 12:25 AM GMT
    eb925guy said
    Akkarins saidSince we're all gay here, I think it's safe to assume most RJ members know what that feels like to be rejected, marginalized and treated as lesser humans beings for a trait that they were born with.

    So my question is: why is that same rejection and marginalization directed towards gays who are of color? We feel rejected, undervalued, dismissed, marginalized, or otherwise flat-out ignored in this gay "community." As one RJ member put it, "Who cares about racial diversity?"

    I don't mean to paint all white gays with a broad brush. I know there are whites who empathize and are willing to listen. But it's still true that most RJ members couldn't care less if all gays of color disappeared from gay clubs, dances, PRIDE parades, grindr, TV shows, even RJ - virtually erased into nonexistence.

    But why? You would think that gays, of all people, would understand how unfair, how unjust, how dehumanizing it is to be discriminated and marginalized based on an inborn trait. So why isn't there more empathy?

    First, if you're basing your assessment from what you see in these forums you need to reevaluate your methodology. The forums will appear to contain a strong racist white coalition because a small group of black members like to turn all discussions of race into a racist rant where they're the victims and every white guy hates them. That's all BS. Even this forum has a posting where the poster makes this assertion but then doesn't even have the balls to have his profile shown.

    You ARE painting all white guys with a broad brush, there's no 'trying not', you've done it. It always goes back to how the whites treat the blacks, never how blacks treat each other (that's accepted), never how whites treat other ethnic groups (that's unknown I guess), never how other ethnic groups treat blacks (not sure why that's never an issue with blacks). Sure whites are in the majority and yes, there are certainly white racists out there. I would venture to say however, there is smaller percentage in the gay community than the general population (nope, I have no statistics to prove that so fire away). I think the issue here on RJ is that if you don't agree with the small vocal group then you're considered in denial and one of the racists because you've never 'walked in our shoes'. These's some truth to that, we have never walked in those shoes but always blaming someone else for who you are or what you become is total BS.

    I never had handouts, I never got preferential treatment, I never was handed anything I didn't work my ass off for so I resent the idea that I treat others inappropriately because I'm white (therefore superior) and you're 'lesser humans'. That is extremely offensive to me in so many ways! I treat everyone as someone respected until I know otherwise. Am I racist because I don't have any 'buddies' on my buddy list that are black? I say no, I'm offended that no blacks have ever emailed me and conversed with me long enough to feel comfortable including them on my list, does that mean their racists? I have no blacks in my 'inner circle' of friends, does that make me a racist? I say no and my asian bf, asian, and latino friends would probably say I'm not racist either. Am I required to have a certain percentage of black in my personal inner circle to qualify as a non-racist?

    So why would you paint me with your wide brush as being racist? Because I won't join the self pitty party of a vocal group of black when NONE of them has ever attempted to even get to know me (presumably because I'm white? Maybe because I'm old or perhaps just because I'm not 'fit' enough to meet their standards. (I guess that makes them racist, agist and fitist! (yeah I made that up…so what!)).

    I think you're taking this too personally. And I think you're conflating, as many people often do, racism with the larger structural advantages of being white. I'm not trying to put forward ad hominem attacks towards each and every white person here. I'm saying there is a system of disadvantage operating for gays of color, as is clearly the case if you took a moment to really look - not immediately dismiss as you're doing - at reality.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 10, 2014 12:33 AM GMT
    Jaggal said Why don't you show your face you dirty pig.

    He can't. He's been banned so many times under so many screen names that he's on the RJ admin's equivalent of a "no-fly" list.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 10, 2014 12:48 AM GMT
    Because gays = people = not exempt from the "most people are dumb" rule
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 10, 2014 12:53 AM GMT
    kiwiLifter said
    Akkarins said
    So my question is: why is that same rejection and marginalization directed towards gays who are of color?


    We feel rejected, undervalued, dismissed, marginalized, or otherwise flat-out ignored in this gay "community." As one RJ member put it, "Who cares about racial diversity?"




    Are your feelings really justified, or is it a combination of Political Correctness brainwashing and drama queen hysteria?

    The only concrete examples of this racism you guys put forward are "I can't get white cock on grindr!" or "such and such American TV series doesn't have enough blacks or asians!" or "such and such gay porn site doesn't have any black performers!" or "such and such gay club doesn't play enough black music!".

    Talk about petty nonsense.icon_rolleyes.gif

    How many gay white guys have told you that you shouldn't be allowed to vote, or use the same public swimming pool?

    Probably around Sweet FA have, I'm thinking.

    Thanks. You're exactly the model boy I'm talking about when I ask the question "why isn't there any empathy?"

    You yourself list a lot of examples of how gays of color are marginalized. Yet you immediately dismiss these concerns ("stop whining") with zero empathy. Think about how you would feel if you were in such a position. Really think about it. Then again, you won't. Why? Because you have no empathy.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jan 10, 2014 12:56 AM GMT
    kiwiLifter said
    Akkarins said
    So my question is: why is that same rejection and marginalization directed towards gays who are of color?


    We feel rejected, undervalued, dismissed, marginalized, or otherwise flat-out ignored in this gay "community." As one RJ member put it, "Who cares about racial diversity?"




    Are your feelings really justified, or is it a combination of Political Correctness brainwashing and drama queen hysteria?

    The only concrete examples of this racism you guys put forward are "I can't get white cock on grindr!" or "such and such American TV series doesn't have enough blacks or asians!" or "such and such gay porn site doesn't have any black performers!" or "such and such gay club doesn't play enough black music!".

    Talk about petty nonsense.icon_rolleyes.gif

    How many gay white guys have told you that you shouldn't be allowed to vote, or use the same public swimming pool?

    Probably around Sweet FA have, I'm thinking.

    And to the contrary, I'm sure gays of color have been told, more or less explicitly, that they were not welcome at certain swimming pools, gay bars, gay clubs, parties, etc. But obviously you couldn't care less even if that we're true.