Man Up

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    Jan 13, 2014 1:21 AM GMT
    Joseph Lamour"Be a man" is something we've all heard at one time or another, even a few of the women reading this right now. Being a "man" in that sense means something completely different to me (and maybe you, too) than what that phrase implies.

    I can't even begin to describe the toll that the concept of masculinity has taken on my life. And it's felt everywhere. It's time we make changes, starting from within ourselves.


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    Jan 13, 2014 1:37 AM GMT
    Very insightful and frank.

    I see it in people alllll the time in 99% of people I come across. Those who wear a 'mask', a facade in which they have so painstakingly cultivated over their lifetime, to fit in, to impress, to protect their insecurity, to manipulate others, to stratergise, to secure the respect and social standing in the eyes of those they need.

    It's reeks of weakness and I can't stomach it for longer than brief exchanges.

    You know who you are (yes, you, hiding again right now. This is a big part of the reason we will never be close [again]).

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    Jan 13, 2014 3:06 AM GMT
    kiwiLifter saidIs this yet another Politically Correct crusade where guys are suppose to embrace their feminine side, "get in touch with their feelings" and cry more?


    No.

    But from what I've seen of your posts/pofile pic, it probably applies to you in the extreme.
  • Adozark

    Posts: 299

    Jan 13, 2014 3:16 AM GMT
    This looks really interesting, I did think it was going to be the clique " it's ok for men to cry" message, but it looks like it's much more and I am very interested in watching this when it's released.
  • killercliche

    Posts: 948

    Jan 13, 2014 5:30 AM GMT
    kiwiLifter saidIs this yet another Politically Correct crusade where guys are suppose to embrace their feminine side, "get in touch with their feelings" and cry more?


    "feelings" aren't feminine. They are universal. Boys are taught to kill their feelings. Feelings don't die though, so they end up men controlled by their "feelings" even as they deny them.

    I would think it to be more manly to understand emotions and learn to control them. To each their own I guess.
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    Jan 13, 2014 5:31 AM GMT
    I spy someone who doesn't get it.
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    Jan 13, 2014 5:39 AM GMT
    killercliche said
    kiwiLifter saidIs this yet another Politically Correct crusade where guys are suppose to embrace their feminine side, "get in touch with their feelings" and cry more?


    "feelings" aren't feminine. They are universal. Boys are taught to kill their feelings. Feelings don't die though, so they end up men controlled by their "feelings" even as they deny them.

    I would think it to be more manly to understand emotions and learn to control them. To each their own I guess.


    Wait... there's something familiar about this cliché...

    PSKirkSpockDeMoAmokTimeHelp.jpg
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    Jan 13, 2014 6:11 AM GMT
    killercliche said
    kiwiLifter saidIs this yet another Politically Correct crusade where guys are suppose to embrace their feminine side, "get in touch with their feelings" and cry more?


    "feelings" aren't feminine. They are universal. Boys are taught to kill their feelings. Feelings don't die though, so they end up men controlled by their "feelings" even as they deny them.

    I would think it to be more manly to understand emotions and learn to control them. To each their own I guess.



    *thumbs up*

    Exactly.

    Thanks for saving my the time it would have took to type this response. =]
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    Jan 13, 2014 10:07 AM GMT
    Guys should be allowed to vent their emotions without feeling they are compromising on their masculinity.

    However, that clip that was posted, almost pressures men into showing their emotions, which isn't something everyone is comfortable doing. That part I'd say is definitely belonging to a feminist agenda. Men and women deal with these things very differently.
  • PolitiMAC

    Posts: 728

    Jan 13, 2014 10:16 AM GMT
    Why can't men and women just express themselves the way they want to? Why do people feel the need to tell men how to behave? If a man is emotionally unexpressive, then he can remain that way. He may encounter consequences for that, or he may not.

    Seriously though, and man will express his emotions, just not to everyone like women do.

    As Kiwi says, men express themselves differently. And that is a perfectly fine thing.
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    Jan 13, 2014 10:22 AM GMT
    Truppensturm saidGuys should be allowed to vent their emotions without feeling they are compromising on their masculinity.

    However, that clip that was posted, almost pressures men into showing their emotions, which isn't something everyone is comfortable doing. That part I'd say is definitely belonging to a feminist agenda. Men and women deal with these things very differently.


    +++++
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    Jan 13, 2014 12:59 PM GMT
    _SAGE_ saidVery insightful and frank.

    I see it in people alllll the time in 99% of people I come across. Those who wear a 'mask', a facade in which they have so painstakingly cultivated over their lifetime, to fit in, to impress, to protect their insecurity, to manipulate others, to stratergise, to secure the respect and social standing in the eyes of those they need.

    It's reeks of weakness and I can't stomach it for longer than brief exchanges.

    You know who you are (yes, you, hiding again right now. This is a big part of the reason we will never be close [again]).



    Sure hope Lauryn Hill hears this song someday...
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    Jan 13, 2014 1:58 PM GMT
    There's some validity to this but I also believe that some people are going to be more emotional than others, hence "thinkers vs feelers"

    but yeah I won't deny that some men out there are clinging to a macho facade. At the same time they were taught to be that way. The question we should be asking(though we probably already know the answer) is why?

    unfortunately it's equally painful trying to force thinkers into being feelers. Just leave us be lol

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    Jan 13, 2014 2:01 PM GMT
    kiwiLifter saidI don't need to cry all the time.

    I spent a few months working in a warehouse with an almost all woman team.

    I lost count how many times they cried - it was always some family or boyfriend drama - sobbing in the lunch room, sobbing in the car park, sobbing in the corner of the warehouse.

    All the other ones would gather round the emotional one and act all soothing.icon_rolleyes.gif

    They were a scheming, backstabbing lot, the hypocrisy was unbelievable.

    Men deal with emotions DIFFERENTLY, there is no need for them to have to behave like woman - that is just pure Feminist propaganda.



    I dont think you understood the message at all. Nobody is asking for men to behave like women but to let men be who they want to be and express themselves naturally. This is about the social pressure and expectations attached to one's gender, it is about being told what to do and how to behave without any basis to justify such teachings. If men really do deal with emotions DIFFERENTLY then no one should be correcting how we express our feelings by telling us to man up and to grow some balls.

    Note: Psycologists study all sorts of human behaviour and they do not need to posses every behavioral pattern in order to have a say about the things they RESEARCH. So yes women psycologists are perfectly qualified to talk about men's psycology just like non-drug addicts psychologists are perfectly qualified to talk about their research on drug abuse and make recommendations accordingly.
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    Jan 13, 2014 2:17 PM GMT
    It's all true but it's old news.
    The bottom line is not that men are forced to "man up" but that life is likely to twist you no matter what.
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    Jan 13, 2014 2:30 PM GMT
    tmac saidThere's some validity to this but I also believe that some people are going to be more emotional than others, hence "thinkers vs feelers"

    but yeah I won't deny that some men out there are clinging to a macho facade. At the same time they were taught to be that way. The question we should be asking(though we probably already know the answer) is why?

    unfortunately it's equally painful trying to force thinkers into being feelers. Just leave us be lol



    I agree and it is the same case for women, they are also expected to act, dress and behave a certain way. Every single toy most girls own is probably pink by the time they are 6 and most likely it involves a pink toy kitchen and a fake baby. Women are also taught to be the whiner, gossipy and incredibly emotionally fragile human they will grow up to be. Somehow we, as a society, decided that is what women should be. How about we spend our time teaching our kids respect for each other, tolerance and equal rights before we push the stereotypical nonsense into their brains.
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    Jan 13, 2014 4:16 PM GMT
    kiwiLifter saidMore Politically Correct nonsense about socially constructed genders etc.

    Interesting that you say that.
    If gender isn't socially constructed, do you think men are born wanting to wear denim and women are born wanting to wear frilly clothes?
    Because if not, then it IS all a social construct, and all your bluster doesn't change that.
    And it's time for you to stop with the "politically correct" bullshit---it's just a way to try to shut people up. It's dishonest, it stinks, and frankly, it's stupid.
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    Jan 13, 2014 4:37 PM GMT
    kiwiLifter saidWhy is a woman psychologist allowed to speak about men? - could you imagine if a man psychologist started talking about what young women needed how the feminists would be puking projectile green slime!

    There were many more male figures (psychologists, psychiatrist, leaders) in that clip than females and yet you comment on the couple of female professionals that make comments. Seriously?

    You need to 'man up' and realize that everyone is filled with emotions and should feel free to express them in any way that helps them better understand themselves, including crying. Mentioning crying or crying itself, for a man, is not a feminist emotion. Wow, where did you learn that? Here are young men talking about committing suicide because they feel repressed and unable to express their emotions due to their gender and how society dictates they should act.

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    Jan 13, 2014 4:48 PM GMT
    charlitos saidI agree and it is the same case for women, they are also expected to act, dress and behave a certain way. Every single toy most girls own is probably pink by the time they are 6 and most likely it involves a pink toy kitchen and a fake baby.


    Speaking of pink...

    Smithsonian MagazineWhy have young children’s clothing styles changed so dramatically? How did we end up with two “teams”—boys in blue and girls in pink?

    “It’s really a story of what happened to neutral clothing,” says Paoletti, who has explored the meaning of children’s clothing for 30 years. For centuries, she says, children wore dainty white dresses up to age 6. “What was once a matter of practicality—you dress your baby in white dresses and diapers; white cotton can be bleached—became a matter of ‘Oh my God, if I dress my baby in the wrong thing, they’ll grow up perverted,’ ” Paoletti says.

    The march toward gender-specific clothes was neither linear nor rapid. Pink and blue arrived, along with other pastels, as colors for babies in the mid-19th century, yet the two colors were not promoted as gender signifiers until just before World War I—and even then, it took time for popular culture to sort things out.

    For example, a June 1918 article from the trade publication Earnshaw's Infants' Department said, “The generally accepted rule is pink for the boys, and blue for the girls. The reason is that pink, being a more decided and stronger color, is more suitable for the boy, while blue, which is more delicate and dainty, is prettier for the girl.” Other sources said blue was flattering for blonds, pink for brunettes; or blue was for blue-eyed babies, pink for brown-eyed babies, according to (University of Maryland historian and author Jo B.) Paoletti.

    In 1927, Time magazine printed a chart showing sex-appropriate colors for girls and boys according to leading U.S. stores. In Boston, Filene’s told parents to dress boys in pink. So did Best & Co. in New York City, Halle’s in Cleveland and Marshall Field in Chicago.

    Today’s color dictate wasn’t established until the 1940s, as a result of Americans’ preferences as interpreted by manufacturers and retailers. “It could have gone the other way,” Paoletti says.


    http://www.smithsonianmag.com/arts-culture/when-did-girls-start-wearing-pink-1370097/#ixzz2qIW2nkx9
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    Jan 13, 2014 4:49 PM GMT
    I don't know where I'd draw the line but hasn't it pretty much been genetically proven that men and women are programmed to act differently in many ways?
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    Jan 13, 2014 5:55 PM GMT
    JohnSpotter saidI don't know where I'd draw the line but hasn't it pretty much been genetically proven that men and women are programmed to act differently in many ways?


    Yes we are different and we want different things so if we will naturally gravitate towards oposite interests then there is 0 need for social correction. If a girl loves blue and a boy loves pink let them be.
  • killercliche

    Posts: 948

    Jan 13, 2014 8:58 PM GMT
    kiwiLifter saidI don't need to cry all the time.

    Men deal with emotions DIFFERENTLY, there is no need for them to have to behave like woman - that is just pure Feminist propaganda.



    You know crying isn't and emotion. It is an expression of an emotion. Perhaps women are encouraged to cry too much by society; I wouldn't argue against that point, but it is not what we are discussing.

    I wouldn't argue that they in general would deal with emotions differently, but the difference is men are taught how to deal with emotions very specifically, more often than not through violence.

    Anger, Sadness, Confusion, Fear, Insecurity, etc. all get funneled through the socialized male and on the other end violence is the most common expression of said emotion. We are knee deep in taking issue with little girls having been raised to be proper ladies that cook and clean and raise children, but no one seems to care about how boys are raised. With all the school shootings on the news, can you say that it's working out?
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    Jan 13, 2014 11:28 PM GMT
    ^Few here will agree with us but this is tragically true.
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    Jan 14, 2014 12:00 AM GMT
    kiwiLifter said
    Men don't act like women, they don't need to blubber all the time. Good on them.

    I don't share your misogyny. The woman I had my kids with was a tough, no-nonsense mathematician. She was also a genius, having graduated from MIT at age 16. Her female friends were likewise a group of tough, accomplished professional women. This crap you spew about women blubbering says much more about your own insecurities than any real comment about "women", about whom you appear to know less than nothing. And screeching about "political correctness" is just a form of bullying: it's purpose is to get people to shut up. Well, screw that. We'll say what we like.
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    Jan 14, 2014 12:30 AM GMT
    kiwiLifter saidPS - you will not shut me up about the PC nonsense.IMAGE HTTP ADDRESS GOES HERE

    I wouldn't dream of denying you the opportunity to show what a whiny jerk you are. Carry on.