Religious fags may answer this.

  • RainBow_Drago...

    Posts: 337

    Jan 25, 2014 7:34 PM GMT
    Is being gay and religious an oxymoron?
  • RainBow_Drago...

    Posts: 337

    Jan 25, 2014 7:38 PM GMT
    woodsmen saidAm Buddhist. Not an oxymoron.


    no, Buddhism, it does not allow homosexuality.
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Jan 25, 2014 7:43 PM GMT
    Being gay and homophobic is obviously hypocritical, so if the religion in question is a homophobic religion, then it definitely begs for soul searching that goes beyond the dogma. Thus, I'd say that a religious gay radical with a modern outlook is one thing, and a self-persecuting gay fundamentalist is quite another.
  • RainBow_Drago...

    Posts: 337

    Jan 25, 2014 7:48 PM GMT
    but we're talking about Buddhism as it taught in the Vinaya and in that Buddha states that those who openly expressed cross-gender features or strong homosexual desires and actions they can not become a monk.

    Note that just having homosexual desires eliminates the person from the possibility of being a Buddhist monk.
    Therefore, Buddhism can not allow it.
  • killercliche

    Posts: 948

    Jan 25, 2014 7:50 PM GMT
    HottJoe saidBeing gay and homophobic is obviously hypocritical, so if the religion in question is a homophobic religion, then it definitely begs for soul searching that goes beyond the dogma. Thus, I'd say that a religious gay radical with a modern outlook is one thing, and a self-persecuting gay fundamentalist is quite another.


    Most homophobic sentiment in modern day religion is an interpretation of an an ancient and poorly translated text.

    Most religions are run by people that have little interest in the original faith and are mostly interested in running an organization for profit.

    If a man yearned for spirituality he would be a fool to let himself be dissuaded from a belief system by such people.
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    Jan 25, 2014 7:52 PM GMT
    No, not at all. In fact, I'd be dead if not for religion.
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    Jan 25, 2014 7:55 PM GMT
    woodsmen said
    RainBow_Dragon2000 said
    woodsmen saidAm Buddhist. Not an oxymoron.


    no, Buddhism, it does not allow homosexuality.
    Not the one I grew up with.


    The SGI Buddhists ( Soka Gakki International )
    buddhists actually have gay meetings and chapters and leaders. They welcome gays into the religion
  • RainBow_Drago...

    Posts: 337

    Jan 25, 2014 7:59 PM GMT
    HottJoe saidBeing gay and homophobic is obviously hypocritical, so if the religion in question is a homophobic religion, then it definitely begs for soul searching that goes beyond the dogma. Thus, I'd say that a religious gay radical with a modern outlook is one thing, and a self-persecuting gay fundamentalist is quite another.


    I like the way how you put it there. In fact the conflict between religion and homosexuality is such a complex issue. one with many layers/levels of interact complications both across time and nations, both within and between different religions and denominations.
  • RainBow_Drago...

    Posts: 337

    Jan 25, 2014 8:06 PM GMT
    CopperDevil said
    woodsmen said
    RainBow_Dragon2000 said
    woodsmen saidAm Buddhist. Not an oxymoron.


    no, Buddhism, it does not allow homosexuality.
    Not the one I grew up with.


    The SGI Buddhists ( Soka Gakki International )
    buddhists actually have gay meetings and chapters and leaders. They welcome gays into the religion


    that's because they choose to ignore Buddha's clear instructions in the Vinaya which clearly says they can not have people with same-gender desires as Buddhist monks.

    for example there's a group of gay Muslims in north america, and they have gay mosques/gatherings and leaders, and they welcome gays of all religions into the club. doesn't mean Islam approves it.

    It's all picking and choosing.
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    Jan 25, 2014 8:07 PM GMT
    Religion is being changed as more people understand that being gay is not a choice or abomination. I do expect however that those gays who identify themselves as [insert religion here] that they are openly gay within their religious groups and do all they can to make the religious teachings of tomorrow more tolerant. Ideally I would love for people to stop worshipping characters out a book written by humans but spirituality won't go away, it is part of our intricate minds we just have to use it in a way that does not justify hatred based on "God" and what we think "God" wants.
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    Jan 25, 2014 9:01 PM GMT
    HottJoe saidBeing gay and homophobic is obviously hypocritical, so if the religion in question is a homophobic religion, then it definitely begs for soul searching that goes beyond the dogma. Thus, I'd say that a religious gay radical with a modern outlook is one thing, and a self-persecuting gay fundamentalist is quite another.


    definitions copy/pasted off web...

    Oxymoron: a figure of speech that juxtaposes apparently contradictory elements

    Hypocrisy: the practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one's own behavior does not conform; pretense

    So while a gay person inflicting homophobic acts might be hypocritical, being homophobic while being gay might not be. It might simply be masochistic. A gay person who doesn't think they themselves should be treated as 100% a human being, might be perverted but is not necessarily being a hypocrite when he also treats other gay people as less than 100% human. He'd be fucked up but consistent.

    Yet we call out hypocrisy when politicians do it. I suppose then the label might have validity depending upon how that person lives his private life. If a gay person is loving or sexually enjoying another man, then we could probably rightfully call hypocrisy if he's caught denouncing or denying the humanity of that for others. But if the person lives celibately, it might not be a hypocrisy, just simply fucked up which every has the right to be; it just doesn't look good on a resume.
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    Jan 25, 2014 9:22 PM GMT
    RainBow_Dragon2000 saidbut we're talking about Buddhism as it taught in the Vinaya and in that Buddha states that those who openly expressed cross-gender features or strong homosexual desires and actions they can not become a monk.

    Note that just having homosexual desires eliminates the person from the possibility of being a Buddhist monk.
    Therefore, Buddhism can not allow it.


    I thought I understood that the Vinaya Pitaka warned against all sexual cravings.

    Can you refer to me to where it specifies restrictions against same sex?

    Googling to try and find what you were talking about I just found this:

    http://www.faithology.com/topics/homosexuality-in-buddhism
    The Vinaya PitakaVinaya Pitaka, a great compendium of early Buddhist law, does not explicitly condemn male homosexual acts. Those that participate in homosexual acts are not punished severely according to the Vinaya Pitaka, and these matters are given little attention in other early Buddhist texts.
  • AMoonHawk

    Posts: 11406

    Jan 25, 2014 9:23 PM GMT
    I think it sort of depends on what you mean by religious. There are many religions. Does a prophet belong to any one religion, how about a seer, mage or sorcerer. They all can be religious in some sense of the word, so to equate the beliefs of a specific religion, such as Christian Southern Baptist to another similar religion such as Christian Metropolitan Community Church is like comparing Onions and Oranges. Both Onions and Oranges start with the letter O and both are from a plant, but they are very different. So to equate all religions the same, is well, ignorant. Unless of course you are an atheist then it would be understandable that you would condemn any religion.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_denominational_positions_on_homosexuality
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    Jan 25, 2014 11:37 PM GMT
    HottJoe saidBeing gay and homophobic is obviously hypocritical, so if the religion in question is a homophobic religion, then it definitely begs for soul searching that goes beyond the dogma. Thus, I'd say that a religious gay radical with a modern outlook is one thing, and a self-persecuting gay fundamentalist is quite another.


    +1.

    Though for me being a religious liberal works well enough. Oh well I guess some might see my views as radical --- depends on what your baseline for centrist would be.

    Anyway, my spirituality and religiousity are intrinsically connected to my gay pride.
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    Jan 25, 2014 11:47 PM GMT
    Let me also add by way of explanation that, as a Reconstructionist Jew, I view all religions as being human creations stemming from a human desire to create community and to understand our place in the universe. Religions come from the people upward rather than from the mountaintop downward. All God language is metaphor and all prayer is self-examination and all religions are about overcoming social isolation. Look up any writings about Mordecai Kaplan (founder of Reconstructionist Judaism) if you want to know more.
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    Jan 26, 2014 1:06 AM GMT
    YourName2000 said
    RainBow_Dragon2000 saidIs being gay and religious an oxymoron?

    No. No more so than being gay is synonymous with being a flaming bitchy stereotype.
    But I'm so good at being that kind of gay.
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    Jan 26, 2014 2:45 AM GMT
    No, Im a catholic and Im friends with everyone at my local church. It depends on how you take "what the bible says", if youre surrounded by a bunch of clut freaks swearing over "the hily scripts" then yeah it is. Basically it depends on how you and the ones around you take it.